Tam very 'crashy' after Nitrons fitted!

[chris watton]

We drove to the Shelsley Walsh Hillclimb breakfast club today (although we arrived very late..), and the drive there was mainly B-Roads, not very good roads at that.

The car was very 'skittish' on these poor roads, and very crashy, it was horrible! It is the first time I have ever NOT enjoyed a drive in the Tamora.

I was told that the new Nitrons were set up as a 'happy-medium', not too hard and not too soft, but I am having trouble believing this - The ride now much stiffer and uncompromising than before on standards.

Also to blame, I think, is the ridiculously narrow tyre wall on the fronts (Toyo Proxi T1 Sport 225 35 18 - the wheel rim is about an inch from the ground with these things -I kerbed my alloy yesterday on a dropped kerb, FFS!)

This combination conspires to make the driving experience a nightmare. Not what I was hoping for after spending the best part of £1400 for the Nitrons and having them fitted.

So, the question is, where can I get these set up properly (I am in the Gloucestershire area), and is it worth changing the front tyres to a 225 40 18 profile, so the wheel rims aren't so close to the road (and tiny drop-kerbs)

No fun driving it right now

Edited by chris watton on Sunday 15th June 15:06

[thatsprettyshady]

give Topcats a call (01296 655109), they're about 60 miles from Gloucestershire but well worth it for a decent set up.

[yanmar]

Had the same problem when had my Tamora. Took it Guglielmi sport in Daventry and he changed the one piece springs to a two piece, the bottom one to take up the road bumps more easy and the larger top to still have good compression for track use. Wasn't cheap but it sorted the problem.

[A900ss]

Chris, where in Gloucestershire are you?

If near the south, Neil Garner is based on the Glos/Wilts border in Kemble near Cirencester.

Good luck.

[chris watton]

Cheers I am in Cinderford, in the Forest of Dean, about 16 miles from Gloucester.

I think ideally, I'd like to change the front tyres and have the ride height increased to compensate for the slightly larger tyre wall, and then have the Nitrons set up by people who know what they're doing.

ETA - I am used to sports cars and harsh rides, I like them like that, but these Nitrons and how they're set up is just plain uncomfortable!

Edited by chris watton on Sunday 15th June 15:29

[anonymous-user]

Have you changed tyre pressures Chris?

[chris watton]

TVRMs said:

Have you changed tyre pressures Chris?

No, haven't touched them - perhaps I better check them...

ETA - should the pressures be the same as in the TVR handbook, or would they need to be different now, due to tyres not being the same as when the car was manufactured?

ETA 2 - Found the right pressures, 24psi for front and 26 for rear.

The fronts were more or less spot on (so they definitely need changing..), but the rears were both at 20psi, so pumped them up to 26..

Edited by chris watton on Sunday 15th June 15:55

[ChrisPap]

Yes, fitting Nitrons was the worst mistake I made. Very poor damping and made he car ride like a go kart on a rally stage:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Softer springs help somewhat, but personally I'm keeping my eye out for some original springs and some bilstien dampers (my originals were tossed out by the garage when they fitted the Nitrons )

[s6boy]

If I'm reading this correctly you changed the front tyres at the same time as fitting the Nitrons. If so did you change the profile from before? If not then most of the harshness will be down to the shocks. I don't have Nitrons but assume they're adjustable in the same way Gaz are, so in the short term before getting a pro set up get under the car, note the setting you have atm and then soften them all off 2 clicks.

[peteA]

Hi Chris

Sorry to hear your having issues - as already suggested I'd try adjusting the dampers, softening them off until your happy with the ride and then see how the handling has been affected?

My suspension was rebuilt at HHC and my brief as it were was that I didn't want a skateboard that would be great for track days but unbearable everywhere else - result: I was recommended normal rubber bushes, eibach springs and standard 'latest spec' bilstein dampers. I'm very happy with how it turned out in terms of overall balance for road use...I would guess it would be ok for track use but the proof will be in the pudding as it were..,

Hope you get sorted

[chris watton]

s6boy said:

If I'm reading this correctly you changed the front tyres at the same time as fitting the Nitrons. If so did you change the profile from before? If not then most of the harshness will be down to the shocks. I don't have Nitrons but assume they're adjustable in the same way Gaz are, so in the short term before getting a pro set up get under the car, note the setting you have atm and then soften them all off 2 clicks.

No - I haven't changed the front tyres yet. They are all the same ones that were on the car when I bought it. I am suggesting that, if I change the front tyres to a set with a little more wall between the rim and the road, that may be better.

The car is great on smooth roads. Trouble is, there are very few like that!

[chris watton]

peteA said:

Hi Chris

Sorry to hear your having issues - as already suggested I'd try adjusting the dampers, softening them off until your happy with the ride and then see how the handling has been affected?

My suspension was rebuilt at HHC and my brief as it were was that I didn't want a skateboard that would be great for track days but unbearable everywhere else - result: I was recommended normal rubber bushes, eibach springs and standard 'latest spec' bilstein dampers. I'm very happy with how it turned out in terms of overall balance for road use...I would guess it would be ok for track use but the proof will be in the pudding as it were..,

Hope you get sorted

Cheers Pete

Am sure it'll be all sorted in the end - I wonder if the harsh ride shook one of my horns off its mounting, which is now sitting loose in the mouth of the tam.....

Edited by chris watton on Sunday 15th June 19:26

[jesfirth]

Chris, nitrons are excellent shocks and have good adjustment. It sounds as though the damping settings are just too high. Just set the shocks a couple of clicks softer and try it again. If it's still too hard try another couple of clicks. It will only take you five minutes to do and you can get it perfect for you. If you want to go back to basics just set each shock at full soft and work up form there. For normal road use I would guess at say 8 from soft front and 6 from soft rear would work well but it does depend on the spring rates. Don't go back to standard shocks. Nitrons are far superior and once they are set up right will be good. Jes

Edited by jesfirth on Sunday 15th June 19:03

[chris watton]

jesfirth said:

Chris, nitrons are excellent shocks and have good adjustment. It sounds as though the damping settings are just too high. Just set the shocks a couple of clicks softer and try it again. If it's still too hard try another couple of clicks. It will only take you five minutes to do and you can get it perfect for you. If you want to go back to basics just set each shock at full soft and work up form there. For normal road use I would guess at say 8 from soft front and 6 from soft rear would work well but it does depend on the spring rates. Don't go back to standard shocks. Nitrons are far superior and once they are set up right will be good. Jes

Edited by jesfirth on Sunday 15th June 19:03

Thanks, Jes. I will take the car to Neil Garner or Topcats, so they will be sorted properly, and have the geo re-checked (even though I paid for that along with having the shocks fitted....)

[jesfirth]

Chris, you can change the settings yourself. It takes no tools. They are turned with your fingers. Adjusting one takes literally 10 seconds. The adjusters are usually gold disks at the top or bottom of each shock and have + and - marked on them + is harder - is softer. It really is that simple. The reason I suggest you do it is because everyone's preferences are different. Topcats set my car up for sprinting and they are very good. It you want it to handle really well ask them to corner weight it for you.

[SergSC]

I have the R1 46mm Nitrons. I too was told they were fine for road use, but found them to be just like what was described above "GoKart on a rally stage". I set them down to 5 clicks out of 20, helped, but still outside the realm of acceptable comfort for general road use... I had an elise as adaily driver for a year so I'm no softy when it comes to comfort...
I recently had vredestein sessantas fitted and that made a big big difference. Very interested in the helper springs setup as above, this was how they are supplied as default for Loti iirc.

[SteveSPG]

out of the box i found the nitrous a bit hard for std use on rougher roads. softening them up with damping makes them acceptable for b roads.

[ChrisPap]

I got my Nitrons dynoed on a proper damper dyno rig.

This was when they were 2 weeks old because I was shocked by the ride.

They were tested every 4 clicks from soft up to 16 clicks hard. for good dampers all the lines should be pretty smooth transitions. As you can see, the damping control on rebound is pretty atrocious. Where the lines are curling back on themselves and moving erratically indicates that the rebound control is terrible.




I went to Nitron and showed them the graphs I have, and got the equivalent of a shrug. If I'd paid to have them taken back off the car and re-fit, then they would have got around to dyno-ing them to check my results in around 'two weeks'. They promised to send me the build graphs from my dampers and other ino that never turned up.

I resolved not to waste any more money and get the job done right once I'd recovered!

[jpp]

peteA said:

Hi Chris

Sorry to hear your having issues - as already suggested I'd try adjusting the dampers, softening them off until your happy with the ride and then see how the handling has been affected?

My suspension was rebuilt at HHC and my brief as it were was that I didn't want a skateboard that would be great for track days but unbearable everywhere else - result: I was recommended normal rubber bushes, eibach springs and standard 'latest spec' bilstein dampers. I'm very happy with how it turned out in terms of overall balance for road use...I would guess it would be ok for track use but the proof will be in the pudding as it were..,

Hope you get sorted

Chris

I'd agree. I live about 2 miles from Shelsley and drive those roads all the time (v lucky, I know) and also run Toyos at the front.

My T350 on the original shocks took a lot of steering and power correction around there - lots of tram lining, bump steer and crashing (much more than my old Bilsteined Elise).

Power fitted and set up Gaz Pro Golds on mine last week. They kept the original ride height (avoids grounding for me) so all that has been changed is the geometry, damping and springs. The car is now much much more stable around there, so whilst it's bumpy I am no longer being thrown around or being pummelled.

I experimented with hardening off by 2 clicks and some crashiness returned.So, if softening the Nitrons off doesn't work I would be surprised, assuming your ride height is not causing you to ground or hit the stops (?), you've checked the tyre pressures and you don't mention tram lining.

The only other advice I was given was that if the fronts are set on the hard side of the adjustment range, softening the rear eventually can introduce 'crashiness' again. So perhaps start your fettling from the mid point at the rear? I avoided my first choice of the Bilsteins with Tuscan 2 rear rated Eibachs because the cost was up there with Nitrons (which I don't do enough track work to justify).

[m4tti]

ChrisPap said:

I got my Nitrons dynoed on a proper damper dyno rig.

This was when they were 2 weeks old because I was shocked by the ride.

They were tested every 4 clicks from soft up to 16 clicks hard. for good dampers all the lines should be pretty smooth transitions. As you can see, the damping control on rebound is pretty atrocious. Where the lines are curling back on themselves and moving erratically indicates that the rebound control is terrible.




I went to Nitron and showed them the graphs I have, and got the equivalent of a shrug. If I'd paid to have them taken back off the car and re-fit, then they would have got around to dyno-ing them to check my results in around 'two weeks'. They promised to send me the build graphs from my dampers and other ino that never turned up.

I resolved not to waste any more money and get the job done right once I'd recovered!

This has to be "myth buster" of the year post. Very interesting.