Where have all the Sags gone????

[anonymous-user]

Rocco1 said:

Anyway back to my original question,where have all the Sags gone?

[anonymous-user]

m4tti said:

TVRMs said:

oh dear, guess we've just been lucky with our 6 S6 cars, including the Sag that did 12/13000 faultless track miles before being sold because I got bored with it.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 2nd August 07:18

Yes "luck".. Dicey quality control means sometimes you'll get lucky, sometimes you won't.

If you read that post I linked to the original valve seat dropped out second time round... Yes original. If you think the factory was full of engine building gurus your in cloud cuckoo land.

No need to be so condesending, it's still very early

I know the factory wasn't full of engine building gurus, very few factories are.

I spent more time at the factory than most owners in 2004-6, with VIP type access to certain areas - not for bad reasons...and not cos I'm a VI anything, and I have a very good idea of the capabilities of those that worked in the engine shop.

Always a discussion to be had - are those that have had zero issues on their cars lucky, or are those that have had issues unlucky. Guess that depends on your experience and how good it's been.

10 years on I believe that owners are more aware that the engines really do need care when cold, and I'd be surprised if rebuilds as a consequence of cold abuse are not ess frequent. PH has played a big part in that.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 2nd August 08:21

[monty quick]

We all know some of the early engines used poor quality materials - the problem was designed-in, it wasn't a reflection of the factory. Care and some mechanical sympathy is definitely avoiding some of the damage that owners suffered when they were not aware.
It is also important to remember that when the S6 engine was first designed it produced more BHP per specific capacity than almost any other motor around. It is a stressed engine and reliability will always be compromised. I do not pretend that TVRs are of the same standard as marques like Porsche, Ferrari, etc. but I know plenty of owners of these 'exotica' makes that have suffered terrible reliability problems and paid eye-watering bills to keep them on the road - so we are not alone.
Now, in answer to the question - I think people are hanging on to their Sags because they are one of the best all-round car solutions available; the wild styling attracts more attention than anything other than perhaps a Lambo, they are fast enough, handle well enough, are (more or less) reliable enough and at worst hold their value and at best appreciate. What's not to like?

[m4tti]

TVRMs said:

No need to be so condesending, it's still very early

Edited by TVRMs on Tuesday 2nd August 08:21

Sorry am up at 5:30.. I'm cooking on gas by this time of morning

[glow worm]

Rocco1 said:

Anyway back to my original question,where have all the Sags gone?

Well from howmany left website, the number of UK licenced has dropped from 190 (2006) to 156 (43 SORN), so I guess 34 have either been written off or exported in the last 10 years.

[PuffsBack]

On the plus side of things - at the rate Sag's are appreciating you could have the engine rebuilt once a year and still make a profit!

[Englishman]

glow worm said:

Well from howmany left website, the number of UK licenced has dropped from 190 (2006) to 156 (43 SORN), so I guess 34 have either been written off or exported in the last 10 years.

I can account for two, one of which I managed to write-off in 2013. Both are/were on original engines and I've had no good reason to rebuild either.

Perception depends on who you've met and their experiences, but the vast majority of the Sag owners I've spoken to since 2005 (I'd estimate ~20) haven't felt the need for a rebuild. I've met one that had engine work because he wanted more power/torque, but I've yet to actually meet any Sag owner that has had an engine failure. I know there have been a handful on PH, but in my experience, they are the exception.

[Willfin]

If the factory wasn't full of engine gurus what was it full of? And did it matter if they weren't skilled engine builders?

[anonymous-user]

Willfin said:

If the factory wasn't full of engine gurus what was it full of? And did it matter if they weren't skilled engine builders?

Where shall I start?

They built cars, engines were only a small part of it - 5 or so engine guys so from a staff of around 160?

To build those engines required good engine builders, good solid technicians. Not Gurus. Gurus are masters, teachers who lead others.

That's the basis for my suggestion the factory was not full of engine Gurus.

Maybe one or two Quality Gurus would have helped in the early S6 days, but that's another story ...

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 3rd August 21:30

[PuffsBack]

LOL - can stop humming this now https://youtu.be/z2CIiES_xxk

[anonymous-user]

PuffsBack said:

LOL - can stop humming this now https://youtu.be/z2CIiES_xxk

He didn't work in the factory did he ;

[Englishman]

Wasn't one of the engine builders Jason who now runs Str8Six?

[glow worm]

If you look on your water pump you may find the initials of your builder.

Paul Giddings Speed Six Engine Build Manager
Steve (Jacko) Jackson Engine Builder (SJ)
Mark (Dolly) Crabtree Engine Builder (MC)
Brian (Ginger) O'Hara Engine Builder (BO)
Steve (Tortoise) Wormwell Engine Builder (SW)
Dave (Dogchops) Morris Engine Builder (DM)
Brian Bond Engine Builder (BB)
Dave (Mincer) Hols Engine Builder (DH)
Steve (Pilly) Pill Engine Builder (SP)
Engine Builder (TS)
Engine Builder (TP)
Jason Clegg STR8SIX Engine Builder (JC)

Sadly I think Mark Crabtree died in accident last year.

[anonymous-user]

glow worm said:

If you look on your water pump you may find the initials of your builder.

Paul Giddings Speed Six Engine Build Manager
Steve (Jacko) Jackson Engine Builder (SJ)
Mark (Dolly) Crabtree Engine Builder (MC)
Brian (Ginger) O'Hara Engine Builder (BO)
Steve (Tortoise) Wormwell Engine Builder (SW)
Dave (Dogchops) Morris Engine Builder (DM)
Brian Bond Engine Builder (BB)
Dave (Mincer) Hols Engine Builder (DH)
Steve (Pilly) Pill Engine Builder (SP)
Engine Builder (TS)
Engine Builder (TP)
Jason Clegg STR8SIX Engine Builder (JC)

Sadly I think Mark Crabtree died in accident last year.

More than I thought Keith, were they also employed at the same time ?

Our Tamora was a Paul Gidding special .

[glow worm]

Paul Giddings now lectures on Motorsport at Blackpool Technical College and his brother John is "The Trim Technician" (who re-trimmed my Chim)

PS I met one Pauls students on Sunday ... he uses a running Speed Six engine as part of his course

Edited by glow worm on Wednesday 3rd August 22:28

[anonymous-user]

glow worm said:

Paul Giddings now lectures on Motorsport at Blackpool Technical College and his brother John is "The Trim Technician" (who re-trimmed my Chim)

I wonder where the other guys are now?

[Englishman]

glow worm said:

If you look on your water pump you may find the initials of your builder.

Paul Giddings Speed Six Engine Build Manager
Steve (Jacko) Jackson Engine Builder (SJ)
Mark (Dolly) Crabtree Engine Builder (MC)
Brian (Ginger) O'Hara Engine Builder (BO)
Steve (Tortoise) Wormwell Engine Builder (SW)
Dave (Dogchops) Morris Engine Builder (DM)
Brian Bond Engine Builder (BB)
Dave (Mincer) Hols Engine Builder (DH)
Steve (Pilly) Pill Engine Builder (SP)
Engine Builder (TS)
Engine Builder (TP)
Jason Clegg STR8SIX Engine Builder (JC)

Sadly I think Mark Crabtree died in accident last year.

Sad to hear about Mark, but how interesting. Just checked my S6 engined cars and the Tuscan was built by BB, the Cerb by TP, but the Sag was built by DS not listed above. But as it was one of the last 2006 cars, maybe there was another engine builder too?

Edited by Englishman on Thursday 4th August 10:27

[glow worm]

Englishman said:

Sad to hear about Mark, but how interesting. Just checked my S6 engined cars and the Tuscan was built by BB, the Cerb by TP, but the Sag was built by DS not listed above. But as it was one of the last 2006 cars, maybe there was another engine builder too?

Edited by Englishman on Thursday 4th August 10:27

But I think your engine was built in week 50 2005
I hope it wasn't after the XMAS party

Edited by glow worm on Thursday 4th August 10:47

[Englishman]

Yes, you are right, I should have said one of the last registered. Any idea who DS was though?

[glow worm]

Ill find out for you

Update ... It's thought TS and DS were twins from Scotland (Heath can't remember names) , but I knew one of them and I'm sure he went to Track v Road.
TP none can remember
But there's also an Engine builder working locally called Simon (who mainly worked in racing on AJP8s) but again Heaths memory seems to be failing him and Paul

Edited by glow worm on Thursday 4th August 13:48