LS Engine swap
Discussion
f
k me senseless - please tell me this is not for a Sagaris - if it is - you deserve to be excommunicated.
I have a supercharged LS3 (not in a TVR) - and a 4.3 straight 6. Ok - one has more power - but really - the straight 6 is so much more characterful...revs to 7k - and the pops on the overrun (no cats) scare small children and make babies cry - that is a TVR.
The real question:- What are you trying to achieve with a LS? - More wheel spin? - There is a limit to the amount of power one can reasonably use in any car. And any car is a "package"
k me senseless - please tell me this is not for a Sagaris - if it is - you deserve to be excommunicated.I have a supercharged LS3 (not in a TVR) - and a 4.3 straight 6. Ok - one has more power - but really - the straight 6 is so much more characterful...revs to 7k - and the pops on the overrun (no cats) scare small children and make babies cry - that is a TVR.
The real question:- What are you trying to achieve with a LS? - More wheel spin? - There is a limit to the amount of power one can reasonably use in any car. And any car is a "package"
Edited by TVRnutcase on Monday 22 August 01:36
Speak to Warren at TopCats, ask him for a drive in a LS powered car - come back and tell us what you think.
The limits of the tyre/chassis are far beyond what a S6 can generate (if correctly set-up) - 650BHP/600 Ft/lbs is closer to the limit
Oh and you can get a "Yank-tank" to rev past 7k and have as much pops and bangs as you like
The limits of the tyre/chassis are far beyond what a S6 can generate (if correctly set-up) - 650BHP/600 Ft/lbs is closer to the limit
Oh and you can get a "Yank-tank" to rev past 7k and have as much pops and bangs as you like
I can identify with this emotion; having had my Griffith for 16 years, I've recently got a 3.6 Chameleon Green Tamora. Fantastic car. After a few months of driving it, I'm selling it on. It's a personal driving style thing but I really don't like the S6. I thought this might happen so I kept the Griff just in case. I could spend circa £8k getting a 4.5 upgrade or even more to get a LS engine but it doesn't make financial sense when I've got the V8 on the driveway.
samnorthy said:
Speak to Warren at TopCats, ask him for a drive in a LS powered car - come back and tell us what you think.
The limits of the tyre/chassis are far beyond what a S6 can generate (if correctly set-up) - 650BHP/600 Ft/lbs is closer to the limit
Oh and you can get a "Yank-tank" to rev past 7k and have as much pops and bangs as you like
If you take into account the cost of the car, then the 25 - 30k LS install cost you could actually go buy something far superior like an R8 v10... So you'd have to be mental. The limits of the tyre/chassis are far beyond what a S6 can generate (if correctly set-up) - 650BHP/600 Ft/lbs is closer to the limit
Oh and you can get a "Yank-tank" to rev past 7k and have as much pops and bangs as you like
TVRnutcase said:
fk me senseless - please tell me this is not for a Sagaris - if it is - you deserve to be excommunicated.
I have a supercharged LS3 (not in a TVR) - and a 4.3 straight 6. Ok - one has more power - but really - the straight 6 is so much more characterful...revs to 7k - and the pops on the overrun (no cats) scare small children and make babies cry - that is a TVR.
The real question:- What are you trying to achieve with a LS? - More wheel spin? - There is a limit to the amount of power one can reasonably use in any car. And any car is a "package"
My car has a tuned LS7 fitted. Also revs to 7k, pops and bangs on overrun, and is very loud as per the V8 TVR's. Hopefully will prove super reliable to. It also sports 630bhp, and 600lbs ft, and I can assure you it puts the power down and you can indeed use it (given an empty road!) k me senseless - please tell me this is not for a Sagaris - if it is - you deserve to be excommunicated.I have a supercharged LS3 (not in a TVR) - and a 4.3 straight 6. Ok - one has more power - but really - the straight 6 is so much more characterful...revs to 7k - and the pops on the overrun (no cats) scare small children and make babies cry - that is a TVR.
The real question:- What are you trying to achieve with a LS? - More wheel spin? - There is a limit to the amount of power one can reasonably use in any car. And any car is a "package"
Edited by TVRnutcase on Monday 22 August 01:36
unclemark123 said:
My car has a tuned LS7 fitted. Also revs to 7k, pops and bangs on overrun, and is very loud as per the V8 TVR's. Hopefully will prove super reliable to. It also sports 630bhp, and 600lbs ft, and I can assure you it puts the power down and you can indeed use it (given an empty road!)
Hugely, hugely personal choice - to me the TVR is the package - S6 motor included - I have the Sagaris - also the LS3 (700hp) powered Senator - if I want a fun drive for pleasure I take the Sagaris - IF I want to be certain of getting home or I want to hack about town - I take the Senator.Both of them comfortably exceed 250kmh, and get to the ton in insane times - BUT I just reach for the Sagaris more if I want a grin factor.
Blackiepaul might be able to help.
I am not a lover of the S6 tbh, it is a good engine but not a great engine. It is noisy and doesn't produce as much power as it should, it was a fine effort from a small production car company but it does have its flaws. 10 years after production stopped a band of merrymen have made it acceptable but look at the posts back in the early days for some of the owners it must have been a nightmare time. There are still some significant challenges around the engine, agreed much better after a good rebuild and the later engines are much better. There isn't a day goes by when I don't think it is noisier than I remember and the LS when done right is a good conversion.
I also don't buy that the sags shouldn't be modified or driven, most of them are much improved on the time they left the factory because there aren't as many compromises compared to a small volume factory with cashflow issues. 10 years is a long time. I was tempted to buy the Cad d green one just to modify the hell out of it
I think Blackiepaul's car is incredible but there is also a supercharged V8 R8 for 50k on autotrader. LS 350c well I think that is all the car for half the money.
I'll be over here in the corner on my own..........
I am not a lover of the S6 tbh, it is a good engine but not a great engine. It is noisy and doesn't produce as much power as it should, it was a fine effort from a small production car company but it does have its flaws. 10 years after production stopped a band of merrymen have made it acceptable but look at the posts back in the early days for some of the owners it must have been a nightmare time. There are still some significant challenges around the engine, agreed much better after a good rebuild and the later engines are much better. There isn't a day goes by when I don't think it is noisier than I remember and the LS when done right is a good conversion.
I also don't buy that the sags shouldn't be modified or driven, most of them are much improved on the time they left the factory because there aren't as many compromises compared to a small volume factory with cashflow issues. 10 years is a long time. I was tempted to buy the Cad d green one just to modify the hell out of it
I think Blackiepaul's car is incredible but there is also a supercharged V8 R8 for 50k on autotrader. LS 350c well I think that is all the car for half the money.
I'll be over here in the corner on my own..........
m4tti said:
If you take into account the cost of the car, then the 25 - 30k LS install cost you could actually go buy something far superior like an R8 v10... So you'd have to be mental.
I must be mental then..... R8 V10 is a nice car but not comparable to any TVR - even on paper is 400KG heavier, and down 100bhp and 200 ft/lbs than my car - I'm guessing lap times would reflect this.To me the car is a long term project, I've owned it for over 10 years, ran it for 5 years with the Sp6 (one TVRpower rebuild). I have been continually developing the car, its only now that its where I feel it should have left the factory.
Bump steer dialled out, suspension setting and shock valving fully developed, chassis stiffened, Fuel system adequate (car let me down 3 times with fuel pump failure - this was with the sp6), AC that works, Fully OEM developed engine, clutch and GB with OEM ECU and FBW throttle - simple servicing, oil and filter only - not the SP6 headache of shims and throttle balancing..........
But as many have said each to their own, I understand the keep it original thinking - but if i'd of stuck to that I'd still be stuck with a car that tried to kill me every time I drove down a typical B-road.
samnorthy said:
I must be mental then..... R8 V10 is a nice car but not comparable to any TVR - even on paper is 400KG heavier, and down 100bhp and 200 ft/lbs than my car - I'm guessing lap times would reflect this.
..
That indicates a naivety with regard to the current genre of super car. Power to weight ratio has little bearing on lap times now with the implementation of drive train, suspension and aero technology. A gtr weighs a considerable amount but does a top 10 nurburing ring lap, a 488 has a blown rear wing, diff technology etc. There's no point even comparing a tvr with propelled by a rocket, the worlds moved on. ..
KSV said:
Threefishorange YHM
Definitely listen to Colin's thoughts (not saying that should be your decision)He's the owner of a very recent and excellent LS conversion from an SP6 so you can get an honest comparison.
My opinion on the other hand (I had honestly thought of going LS) but I bought a TVR for the fact it was a TVR yes it can be a PITA but that is all part of its charm. I got the sp6 over an ajp as I love the engines character so a v8 wasn't my 1st choice anyway. With so development I for one am happy to say I'll be going 4.7 as I then have a TVR with a TVR engine which for me is what stands them from the crowd. Noble and Morgon use other lumps but TVR didn't (back then) follow the mould they did it thier way.
My OCD may not cope with an engine that says corvette in my TVR... That would be like having curved groove front discs and drilled rears wouldn't it Colin ;P
Silvernoble883 said:
How safely can you Rev the new 4.7 to?
it seems a bit pointless if it won't rev over 7k and you might as well go V8.
you shouldnt even take a 4.3 into that region for a longer time it seems a bit pointless if it won't rev over 7k and you might as well go V8.
so same same as for the 4.7. not a bad engine though but having
best of both worlds either modify the 4.3 to do the job or built
a good going 4.0L it sometimes makes me wonder reading that people
dont like the V8 character and then go for stroker engines
to increase torque
each to their own.....gacksen said:
Silvernoble883 said:
How safely can you Rev the new 4.7 to?
it seems a bit pointless if it won't rev over 7k and you might as well go V8.
you shouldnt even take a 4.3 into that region for a longer time it seems a bit pointless if it won't rev over 7k and you might as well go V8.
so same same as for the 4.7. not a bad engine though but having
best of both worlds either modify the 4.3 to do the job or built
a good going 4.0L it sometimes makes me wonder reading that people
dont like the V8 character and then go for stroker engines
to increase torque
each to their own.....I've had both engines in T-cars....
The LS V8 was a wonderful engine - made a great noise, didn't have any branding on it. 400/400 were the unstressed numbers.
The FFF S6 is an astonishing engine. Revvy, powerful and does everything you want of it. Reliable as well. (Shame about the bits surrounding it...) 445/320 are the numbers.
For me the straight six is the quintessential british sports car engine. But the V8 is the noise a TVR 'should' make.
Personally I would say keep the sagaris a S6 car, or if you do swap it make sure the changes are reversible and store the S6 properly. Then when it's time to sell....
The LS V8 was a wonderful engine - made a great noise, didn't have any branding on it. 400/400 were the unstressed numbers.
The FFF S6 is an astonishing engine. Revvy, powerful and does everything you want of it. Reliable as well. (Shame about the bits surrounding it...) 445/320 are the numbers.
For me the straight six is the quintessential british sports car engine. But the V8 is the noise a TVR 'should' make.
Personally I would say keep the sagaris a S6 car, or if you do swap it make sure the changes are reversible and store the S6 properly. Then when it's time to sell....
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