Discussion
QUOTE:
"Mr. Lister, Sir, you don't know what the F**k, you're talking about - my girlfriend has at least as good an appreciation of cars, speed etc, as you, so shut your bigoted, trashy mouth."
I am sorry if I caused offence with my comment. I love cars as much as the next man. What I am trying to say is that The Boxster is not Porsche's best effort - but more of a 'lite' version of their more superior - and far more expensive designs. It is a question of choice. I agree that there are plenty of Boxsters on the road so they can hardly been described as inferior - but I do believe that they are consequently less exotic and have more mass market appeal than some of the other Porsches and the likes of TVR and Lotus that fall into the 'enthusiast' territory.
Lastly, I am disappointed with the reactions that have arisen to my comment - butI find other people's posts more offensive still. And, I would like to point out that I do not claim to be a complete expert on cars - but I can service them, rebuild an engine, tune them etc. But, heh, I am no expert - but I do have taste!
Edited by bryanlister on Sunday 4th November 13:38
Edited by bryanlister on Sunday 4th November 19:20
"Mr. Lister, Sir, you don't know what the F**k, you're talking about - my girlfriend has at least as good an appreciation of cars, speed etc, as you, so shut your bigoted, trashy mouth."
I am sorry if I caused offence with my comment. I love cars as much as the next man. What I am trying to say is that The Boxster is not Porsche's best effort - but more of a 'lite' version of their more superior - and far more expensive designs. It is a question of choice. I agree that there are plenty of Boxsters on the road so they can hardly been described as inferior - but I do believe that they are consequently less exotic and have more mass market appeal than some of the other Porsches and the likes of TVR and Lotus that fall into the 'enthusiast' territory.
Lastly, I am disappointed with the reactions that have arisen to my comment - butI find other people's posts more offensive still. And, I would like to point out that I do not claim to be a complete expert on cars - but I can service them, rebuild an engine, tune them etc. But, heh, I am no expert - but I do have taste!
Edited by bryanlister on Sunday 4th November 13:38
Edited by bryanlister on Sunday 4th November 19:20
Thanks Nubbin - friends again?
Mind you, I confess to a flaw in my own argument. Peter Wheeler IS (allegedly) going for the Boxster/SLK/TT market with the Tamora - so on what criteria should the Tamora be judged? With 350 bhp it can hardly be described as a 'soft' TVR - far from it. So will it be true TVR enthusiast territory (like yourself Nubbin?) - or take some loyalty from the German brands? In true marketing fashion - its the 'customer who is always right'. I look forward to seeing more reviews on the Tamora and await with interest to see who buys it. Huge respect to TVR though - PW has balls.
Mind you, I confess to a flaw in my own argument. Peter Wheeler IS (allegedly) going for the Boxster/SLK/TT market with the Tamora - so on what criteria should the Tamora be judged? With 350 bhp it can hardly be described as a 'soft' TVR - far from it. So will it be true TVR enthusiast territory (like yourself Nubbin?) - or take some loyalty from the German brands? In true marketing fashion - its the 'customer who is always right'. I look forward to seeing more reviews on the Tamora and await with interest to see who buys it. Huge respect to TVR though - PW has balls.
interesting point that...I would have thought the car would have a problem image wise for most of the SLK/boxster bunch, personally I wasn't interested until I was taken round Millbrook in one and now I'm hooked. Thing is I love TVR's for the ability/performance thing as well as the looks and sound. I don't think this is as important to the afore mentioned drivers and the car might look a little too quirky as well.
No probs, Bryan. I can't help but feel that TVR are getting closer to their perfect product with the Tamora - they now have the power train, (reliability to be confirmed), the handling, and ability to make cars handle well, the chassis without doubt, and the skills to make stunning interiors. The Tamora design is an acquired taste, but the same is true of most bespoke, small volume cars - look objectively at the Morgan Aero8 - just about the ugliest looking sports car ever to roll out of a British factory. But it goes well, handles, and so will sell well. The Tamora will take TVR further, much like the Griff did, and the next generation will possibly get an even better body design - although I like the Tamora - well I would say that - it is a good car. If reliability is good, there will be a lot of orders next year, once a few hit the streets and start proving their worth. I hope so anyway!
To be honest, I think the Tamora will take sales from other TVR models, particularly the base Tuscan, but a lot of Boxster owners do take a look, and p/ex up, to Chimaeras/Tuscans. If the Boxster has street cred due to it's speed and handling being the best, as well as the fact it's a Porsche, then anyone with an ounce of appreciation for decent cars must look at the Tamora and see it is better in most areas than the Boxster, but as usual with TVR, the jury remain undecided. Still, the motoring press love it, which is a great start!
Edited by nubbin on Monday 5th November 12:48
To be honest, I think the Tamora will take sales from other TVR models, particularly the base Tuscan, but a lot of Boxster owners do take a look, and p/ex up, to Chimaeras/Tuscans. If the Boxster has street cred due to it's speed and handling being the best, as well as the fact it's a Porsche, then anyone with an ounce of appreciation for decent cars must look at the Tamora and see it is better in most areas than the Boxster, but as usual with TVR, the jury remain undecided. Still, the motoring press love it, which is a great start!
Edited by nubbin on Monday 5th November 12:48
Just seen 'Drivel' tonight. No surprises in the result of their 'contest' - I think I could have predicted that result. If you follow their conclusion: BMW Z3s are for the girls, TVRs are for the boys, and Boxsters are for both. Who on earth develops their test critera??? We have gone from the jelly on the passenger's lap to using a jet wash and a big fan to see if you can get wet in an open top car whilst getting the roof on. I could have saved them the bother! Shame that they did not do any hard driving tests - instead everything was a bit average, especially the slalom around cones at 2 mph. These are SPORTS cars - not MPV thingies!
Cars are funny things really - there are people that know, people that dont and people that dont care. It seems, judging by the comments on Drivel tonight, that image is everything and content is nothing - people dont really care....
Shame really. However, I will share a couple of observations with you. A friend of mine has a Boxster (only a 2.7) and loves it. He did test drive a Z3M and simply said it "wasnt special enough". He will be the first to admit that he isnt an ace driver, but it simply felt very un-special. The Porsche on the other hand was very special and very different. So much so he bought one on the spot. However, he is now getting rid of it. Spent £3K in two months keeping it on the road. Looks to have lost something around the £8K - £10K mark for his one year of ownership too....
So I can understand that a Porsche is a very good car, but a BMW Z3M is simply a beefed up Z3 (flawed and compromised). The TVR Tamora is not perfect either, but the test criteria for the Drivel article is just bizare. Who the hell cares about practicality when you are spending £40K on a sports car! As for a convertible - yes it will leak, it moves for christs sake! And raw driving appeal - well if you can afford a £40K sports car, I damn well expect it to be bloody good. I can quite easily spend £40K on something a bit more practical if I want.....
Then again - there are people that know and people that just dont care.
Paul
Chimaera 4.0 HC
Shame really. However, I will share a couple of observations with you. A friend of mine has a Boxster (only a 2.7) and loves it. He did test drive a Z3M and simply said it "wasnt special enough". He will be the first to admit that he isnt an ace driver, but it simply felt very un-special. The Porsche on the other hand was very special and very different. So much so he bought one on the spot. However, he is now getting rid of it. Spent £3K in two months keeping it on the road. Looks to have lost something around the £8K - £10K mark for his one year of ownership too....
So I can understand that a Porsche is a very good car, but a BMW Z3M is simply a beefed up Z3 (flawed and compromised). The TVR Tamora is not perfect either, but the test criteria for the Drivel article is just bizare. Who the hell cares about practicality when you are spending £40K on a sports car! As for a convertible - yes it will leak, it moves for christs sake! And raw driving appeal - well if you can afford a £40K sports car, I damn well expect it to be bloody good. I can quite easily spend £40K on something a bit more practical if I want.....
Then again - there are people that know and people that just dont care.
Paul
Chimaera 4.0 HC
I watch ALL car programs due to my car addiction - but I've not watched driven for a few weeks as I find it so repulsive ('oh lets give this one 14 oh yes yes and lets give this nice yellow one 16 oh thats a nice idea etc) so found myself watching driven tonight because the Tamora was on it. What crap it still is. Brewer is one of the most awful tw@ts ever on the box.
Ed
Ed
How pathetic !
I am sure that if the Tamora had finished first, you would all have loved "Driven".
Do you think Top Gear gave a better appreciation of the cars by comparing ONLY their ability in accelerating in straight line...
Probably the best test would have been to race on a wet track; but there again the Boxster would have won. But you would argue that driving in wet conditions is not 'sporty' enough...
I am sure that if the Tamora had finished first, you would all have loved "Driven".
Do you think Top Gear gave a better appreciation of the cars by comparing ONLY their ability in accelerating in straight line...
Probably the best test would have been to race on a wet track; but there again the Boxster would have won. But you would argue that driving in wet conditions is not 'sporty' enough...
quote:
Probably the best test would have been to race on a wet track; but there again the Boxster would have won. But you would argue that driving in wet conditions is not 'sporty' enough...
Don't be so sure. The Tamora is the best handling TVR to date drawing heavily on race track experience. Given the extra power its got over the Boxster and the weight difference, it would be an interesting comparison.
BoxS
One of the reason why the Boxter could have won on a wet track is because the driver would probably not have the guts/skills to drive the Tamora to its limits (I certainly wouldn't/haven't) - you know absence of drivers aids, etc. Similarly, noone has managed to test the maximum speed of the Tuscan S.
I am thinking about spending money of a nice sprots car. I test drove a Tamora last saturday and I am also going test drive a BoxterS. I strongly encourage you to do the same: call a dealer and go for test drive (If you are in London TVR Centre in Barnet is the place). After this I am convinced you will understand why people on this chatroom are such fanatics, which does not mean that you will be conquered, but at least you'll understand. TVRs are just DIFFERENT, whether you find this better or worse is down to personal taste.
Salutations!
One of the reason why the Boxter could have won on a wet track is because the driver would probably not have the guts/skills to drive the Tamora to its limits (I certainly wouldn't/haven't) - you know absence of drivers aids, etc. Similarly, noone has managed to test the maximum speed of the Tuscan S.
I am thinking about spending money of a nice sprots car. I test drove a Tamora last saturday and I am also going test drive a BoxterS. I strongly encourage you to do the same: call a dealer and go for test drive (If you are in London TVR Centre in Barnet is the place). After this I am convinced you will understand why people on this chatroom are such fanatics, which does not mean that you will be conquered, but at least you'll understand. TVRs are just DIFFERENT, whether you find this better or worse is down to personal taste.
Salutations!
I really think that 'Drivel' were struggling to find cars to test the Tamora against. Makers such as Morgan, Marcos, AC are I believe the same market segment as the TVR buyer. Cars that can be driven everyday but probably will find themselves being the second / third car of the house - and as I said in an earlier post, enthusiasts cars. They are low volume cars without much of the electronic 'safety aids' incorporated into German cars. At the same time, they have evolved from pure driving dynamics - a culmination of chassis design, suspension set up, brakes and tyres - NOT 'corrected' through computer controls to try and re-engineer in these dynamics. As in all good things in life, less is often more. I took a Boxster out for a test drive once with a view to buying a sports car. At that time I had a BMW company car. I could not justify buying the Porsche because it somehow did not provide a sufficiently different driving experience to the BMW. It was too clinical. So why have one as the second car? The TVR WAS different though and I went and got a Chimaera which I love driving because IT IS different. Absolutely no regrets there - and nothing sounds better (Top Gear JD Power Survey results 2001). Any other TVR drivers care to back me on this????????????
I don't have a TVR but I have been around them for long enough to know that nothing stirs the blood like the sound of one.
I love being in them and driving them (when Dad is feeling generous). There is to me at least very little on the road that can make you feel like that.
When I was little my favourite game was guessing which TVR Dad was in from the sound of the engine
PS. If I don't make sense blame it on the Italians for making good wine.
I love being in them and driving them (when Dad is feeling generous). There is to me at least very little on the road that can make you feel like that.
When I was little my favourite game was guessing which TVR Dad was in from the sound of the engine
PS. If I don't make sense blame it on the Italians for making good wine.
I would, but apparently he doesn't like talking to customers!! Except I had a long and pleasant conversation with him at the Birmingham motor show, and a great picture of him and my children on the TVR stand! You can tell him at Christmas that his cars are fine by me!!
Edited by nubbin on Wednesday 7th November 23:10
Edited by nubbin on Wednesday 7th November 23:10
Dad reads PH or he would if he hadn't broken my computer I lent him. He asks me to print off stuff from here and I post it up to him.
Dad used to do all the Shows, now he will just drive the Transporter down and put the stand up but won't actually do shows. Got fed up in the end. Don't blame him really. Mum just leaves him to it and carries on doing all the warranty claims.
Edited by Gaffer on Wednesday 7th November 23:31
Dad used to do all the Shows, now he will just drive the Transporter down and put the stand up but won't actually do shows. Got fed up in the end. Don't blame him really. Mum just leaves him to it and carries on doing all the warranty claims.
Edited by Gaffer on Wednesday 7th November 23:31
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