T350 - initial thoughts 3 weeks in!
Discussion
What's wrong with me? I'm a TVR man through & through (at least I thought I was) until this. It's a very good car so I guess it's just me. Didanyone else feel the same? How did you overcome it? I really don't want this to become a very expensive mistake.
[/quote]
i know how you feel tony,i felt the same.
I`ve just realised I did actually feel exactly how you did during my first few weeks with the Sagaris.
I was wondering why I spent all that money just to be worried about the gauges! It did take a few months to settle before I started to relax but now I don`t worry - I just listen for any weird sounds
J
I was wondering why I spent all that money just to be worried about the gauges! It did take a few months to settle before I started to relax but now I don`t worry - I just listen for any weird sounds
J
TBH, given what has happened over the past 10 months, not only with my car, but also with the Credit Crunch, I should be ruing the day I traded in my Chimaera 500 for a Sagaris.
But I don't. I hate the car when it goes wrong, but I love it more than anything else I own when its right. And fortunately the latter more than outweighs the former.
But I don't. I hate the car when it goes wrong, but I love it more than anything else I own when its right. And fortunately the latter more than outweighs the former.
The Chimaera is a great car, but you will notice the heavy clutch, gearchange, steering, sloppy suspension, inadequate brakes if you try one after driving a T car for a while. The new models feel sharp, alive, make you feel like you're part of the machine. The older models just (Rover V8 era) make you feel comfortable and envelop you in a blanket of torque, noise and oily smells. (I still love them all though.)
Zippee said:
It's been 3 weeks now and 800 miles since picking up my first S6 - a 54 plate T350T.
Having come from 4 years ownership of a 400 Chimaera my first impression is how much more solid it feels and especially how much safer you feel in it knowing theres a full cage around you.
Next comes the speed - the Chim was by no means a slow car but at the same time not hugely fast in 400 form. The 350 is in another league, not so much low down torque but when you hit 4000rpm - wow!!!
Handling - corners I'd take at 45-50 in the Chim and feel on edge feel like I'm on rails in the 350. I had gaz golds on the chim and whilst an improvement are nothing compared to the standard 350 set-up. The steering is far more sensitive and take a while to get used to, we won't go there with the turning circle though.
It's a bugger to get in/out of though - hit my head on that bloody roof quite a few times now and getting out I can see myself wearing through that side bolster pretty quickly. It's more comfortable to drive fast than the Chim but not as nice to cruise in. The Chim is a far more relaxed place to be at cruising speeds.
Warm up is a royal PITA! Especially in this weather with the oil temp rarely getting up there due to the cold airflow. As is checking the oil level, nearly burnt my head/had/arm on that sodding engine several times now. I also find myself panicking far more over temps and pressures than I ever did in the Chim.
Fuelling is a b*stard! guage is to say the least - pants! hard to get it in and takes an age to fill.
Noise (std exhaust) is not as loud as my Chim (sleeved V8) but does sound more supercar esque, especially under power. Can't wait to hear a sports exhaust!
So after 3 weeks I can say I like it, it's more up to date, has looks to die for, gets sooo much attention, is quick, handles well etc.
BUT - for some reason I can't put my finger on at this stage I don't love it. Almost to the point whereby if someone made me a good cash offer now I'd sell.
What's wrong with me? I'm a TVR man through & through (at least I thought I was) until this. It's a very good car so I guess it's just me. Didanyone else feel the same? How did you overcome it? I really don't want this to become a very expensive mistake.
Very much how i always felt about all my tvrs over 7 yearsHaving come from 4 years ownership of a 400 Chimaera my first impression is how much more solid it feels and especially how much safer you feel in it knowing theres a full cage around you.
Next comes the speed - the Chim was by no means a slow car but at the same time not hugely fast in 400 form. The 350 is in another league, not so much low down torque but when you hit 4000rpm - wow!!!
Handling - corners I'd take at 45-50 in the Chim and feel on edge feel like I'm on rails in the 350. I had gaz golds on the chim and whilst an improvement are nothing compared to the standard 350 set-up. The steering is far more sensitive and take a while to get used to, we won't go there with the turning circle though.
It's a bugger to get in/out of though - hit my head on that bloody roof quite a few times now and getting out I can see myself wearing through that side bolster pretty quickly. It's more comfortable to drive fast than the Chim but not as nice to cruise in. The Chim is a far more relaxed place to be at cruising speeds.
Warm up is a royal PITA! Especially in this weather with the oil temp rarely getting up there due to the cold airflow. As is checking the oil level, nearly burnt my head/had/arm on that sodding engine several times now. I also find myself panicking far more over temps and pressures than I ever did in the Chim.
Fuelling is a b*stard! guage is to say the least - pants! hard to get it in and takes an age to fill.
Noise (std exhaust) is not as loud as my Chim (sleeved V8) but does sound more supercar esque, especially under power. Can't wait to hear a sports exhaust!
So after 3 weeks I can say I like it, it's more up to date, has looks to die for, gets sooo much attention, is quick, handles well etc.
BUT - for some reason I can't put my finger on at this stage I don't love it. Almost to the point whereby if someone made me a good cash offer now I'd sell.
What's wrong with me? I'm a TVR man through & through (at least I thought I was) until this. It's a very good car so I guess it's just me. Didanyone else feel the same? How did you overcome it? I really don't want this to become a very expensive mistake.
Chim 2 years
Griff 1 year
T350C 03 18 months
T350C 55 19 months
Sagaris 06 10 months
When moving from one to the next i thought they'd be a massive step up, and although i loved the look of all the cars, what they stood for ie british, unique, lightweight, powerful, great noise, there was always somethings missing.
The niggles really got to me over time, no mechanical problems just squeeks and rattles which came and went, really crap in car sound (stereo), the worry over the S6, not taking the car out if i was only driving 15 minutes somewhere as it was no point due to warming up. Im a real stickler for things being really pristine, but the reality was bodywork (odd blemishes), wheels (loads of balance weights and poor spray finish on the inside of the alloys - brand new car too), hubs (corroding), under wheel arches (coating flaking off), under bonnet (poor finish), as i went round the car with a fine tooth comb these things really got to me as i wanted everything to be perfect, but never really had the time to put these right myself. Oh yes and have you ever come across a worst sealant round the lights front and rear, actually its probably not the sealant but the design, i think i spent over £1750 in 3 years with the 2 T350s and the Sagaris having front and rear lenses covers resealed / replaced. And thats really what i mean about going from one model to the next and newer cars and the same problems just persisted.
Sorry but you can see ive really had a rant there, just shows how i felt and these things used to spoil what could have been a great experience.
I still have good memories, the tvr crowd were great, and the cars beautiful to look at, sounded awesome and got good attention.
N
Edited by Maxx-Waxx on Tuesday 11th November 21:44
Hi Guys,
I can't believe what I am hearing. These are fantastic cars, yes there are some niggles which can be very annoying. But taking into account the performance and the styling there are very few cars which can compete especially for money.
I think people need to accept or at least understand that these are hand built so some are bound to be better than others. Because of the very nature of their design they need to be looked after and maintained properly in order to keep them looking pristine. High performance cars cost money...fact. TVRs are no more expensive than the other supercars available...may even be cheaper!!!
I cannot believe people are complaining about the warm-up procedure. You can drive at 2,000 rpm -2,500 rpm, which is quite fast for most roads. In this weather it not likely you will be driving too fast anyway. There are some benefits for having a warm-up period, getting the tyres up to temperature, and getting used to driving it again, before you start hooning it!!!
“Why do people keep saying it’s not like the ....Lotus, Porsche I used to have. “
Sorry to break the news to you but you have bought a....TVR!!!! A completely different car (engine in the front);)
Just a thought maybe buying a super fast sports car in the winter is not the best idea, since you will not be able to appreciate its true performance capabilities until we have warmer drier conditions.
Once the weather as warmed up I think you guys will all have a change of heart, and think completely different.
But, that’s just my view.
I can't believe what I am hearing. These are fantastic cars, yes there are some niggles which can be very annoying. But taking into account the performance and the styling there are very few cars which can compete especially for money.
I think people need to accept or at least understand that these are hand built so some are bound to be better than others. Because of the very nature of their design they need to be looked after and maintained properly in order to keep them looking pristine. High performance cars cost money...fact. TVRs are no more expensive than the other supercars available...may even be cheaper!!!
I cannot believe people are complaining about the warm-up procedure. You can drive at 2,000 rpm -2,500 rpm, which is quite fast for most roads. In this weather it not likely you will be driving too fast anyway. There are some benefits for having a warm-up period, getting the tyres up to temperature, and getting used to driving it again, before you start hooning it!!!
“Why do people keep saying it’s not like the ....Lotus, Porsche I used to have. “
Sorry to break the news to you but you have bought a....TVR!!!! A completely different car (engine in the front);)
Just a thought maybe buying a super fast sports car in the winter is not the best idea, since you will not be able to appreciate its true performance capabilities until we have warmer drier conditions.
Once the weather as warmed up I think you guys will all have a change of heart, and think completely different.
But, that’s just my view.
need4power said:
I cannot believe people are complaining about the warm-up procedure.
In context, most of the people who have mentioned it have come from Rover V8 cars (ie. Chimaera or Griffith), which come up to temperature extremely quickly. need4power said:
Sorry to break the news to you but you have bought a....TVR!!!!
If you read the whole thread, you'd see that a majority of the posters have had TVRs before.Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 11th November 22:33
need4power said:
Because of the very nature of their design they need to be looked after and maintained properly in order to keep them looking pristine.
But, that’s just my view.
So what is it about nature of their design that dictates they need to be looked after / maintained properly to keep them looking good.But, that’s just my view.
My new T350 (55) was delivered with a snag list as long as your arm.
Multiple paint imperfections / runs / lack of paint applied in certain areas leading to differing shades of blue / fibre glass join lines in the wing showing through / paint lifting in 2 places
Upto 300grams of weights on two spider wheels (they said it was the tyres fault - i later proved that wasnt the case - just cheap wheels made with poor QC)
Lack of paint on the inside of some of the wheels
Hubs which were corroding
Uneven ride heights
Corrosion of some of the metals under the bonnet
Rear quarter perspex panels lifting away from the sealant
Plastic lip on the top of the glass rear hatch was pitted and defective
Plastic covers for the rear hatch screws fell off
An awful creak which seemed to come from beneath the passenger side dash, it was never found by the dealer, they would spend anymore time on it as tvr wouldnt pay them for more than 2 hours labour and they spent 4.
I used to ask friends to sit in the passenger seat whilst i drove with them crawling all over trying to locate, they must have thought me bonkers having just paid £45k on a new car.
Cleaning away the excess glue inside on the leather.
seal on NS door to window didnt appear to fit properly and collected water
black under wheel arches flaking off
rear quarter paint not polished behind rear wheels
When removing the rear diffuser the bodywork wasnt painted, just overspray
Paintwork not polished in door recesses
One front and one rear light cluster let water in
Im sure there were others but im just too bored writing now.
So what in the nature of design affects any of the above.
It took me many months of pain, personal time and heart ache to get most of this sorted out, when clearly this should never never be the case, hand made or not unless stevie wonder and ray charles were on my production line.
And this car was my favourite of the 5 i had, suppose cos i bought it new and had to go through all the above, it just leaves a bad taste.
I still love the notion of tvr just not the day to day reality though
All IMHO you understand
N
But thats just my view
maybe stevie wonder and ray charles worked on yours but they didn't work on mine
What I meant was each one was different, so some people have good experiences and others don't. Question is, if you were not happy maybe you should have walked away, and found another one.
What I meant was each one was different, so some people have good experiences and others don't. Question is, if you were not happy maybe you should have walked away, and found another one.
Edited by need4power on Wednesday 12th November 00:37
JonRB said:
But, god, I love my Sag more. Even if it will probably cost me my licence and/or life at some point. 
Wasn`t the best morning to drive the Sagaris to work (damp roads) but it hadn`t been out in 2 weeks and just like JonRB I wouldn`t change the TVR experience for anything.I`m now sitting in work waiting til lunch-time for an excuse to go 20 miles in the wrong direction
I bought mine 2nd hand and I`ve only had a few minor problems:
- Broken seal on front lenses
- Wheel arch sealance flaking
- Broken exhaust support mount
- Non-clearing clutch (replacing this soon as its had 16k miles)
need4power said:
High performance cars cost money...fact. TVRs are no more expensive than the other supercars available...may even be cheaper!!!
I cannot believe people are complaining about the warm-up procedure. You can drive at 2,000 rpm -2,500 rpm, which is quite fast for most roads. In this weather it not likely you will be driving too fast anyway. There are some benefits for having a warm-up period, getting the tyres up to temperature, and getting used to driving it again, before you start hooning it!!!
“Why do people keep saying it’s not like the ....Lotus, Porsche I used to have. “
Sorry to break the news to you but you have bought a....TVR!!!! A completely different car (engine in the front);)
Once the weather as warmed up I think you guys will all have a change of heart, and think completely different.
But, that’s just my view.
Just to respond to a couple of your points - I've owned a Chimaera for 4 years and so am well used to creaks, rattles, bangs, wind noise, trim falling off etc. and so was under no impressions whatsoever that I'd be expecting Porsche build quality. In fact I have no problem with that at all on the 350 - it's actually a MASSIVE step up from the Chim in that respect.I cannot believe people are complaining about the warm-up procedure. You can drive at 2,000 rpm -2,500 rpm, which is quite fast for most roads. In this weather it not likely you will be driving too fast anyway. There are some benefits for having a warm-up period, getting the tyres up to temperature, and getting used to driving it again, before you start hooning it!!!
“Why do people keep saying it’s not like the ....Lotus, Porsche I used to have. “
Sorry to break the news to you but you have bought a....TVR!!!! A completely different car (engine in the front);)
Once the weather as warmed up I think you guys will all have a change of heart, and think completely different.
But, that’s just my view.
The warm up is just a niggle not a complaint. The RV8 used to also need warming up, just didn't take so long - even in the cold weather.
Running costs are also not a concern and in fact I don't believe I mentioned it once. The S6 is a big concern but I really think it's more to do with me not yet knowing what to listen/feel for and when to be concerned. At present anything that seems a little odd I panic about. As you mention this should get better as I get to know the car further.
Just for some reason though I don't get the feeling I want to go for a drive like I did in the Chim. Not sure why and I really do hope that when the weather changes for the better this will be overcome.
I guess it's like women - love isn't instant and takes time to develop, hopefully it's the same with the T350.
[/quote]
So what is it about nature of their design that dictates they need to be looked after / maintained properly to keep them looking good.
My new T350 (55) was delivered with a snag list as long as your arm.
Multiple paint imperfections / runs / lack of paint applied in certain areas leading to differing shades of blue / fibre glass join lines in the wing showing through / paint lifting in 2 places
Upto 300grams of weights on two spider wheels (they said it was the tyres fault - i later proved that wasnt the case - just cheap wheels made with poor QC)
Lack of paint on the inside of some of the wheels
Hubs which were corroding
Uneven ride heights
Corrosion of some of the metals under the bonnet
Rear quarter perspex panels lifting away from the sealant
Plastic lip on the top of the glass rear hatch was pitted and defective
Plastic covers for the rear hatch screws fell off
An awful creak which seemed to come from beneath the passenger side dash, it was never found by the dealer, they would spend anymore time on it as tvr wouldnt pay them for more than 2 hours labour and they spent 4.
I used to ask friends to sit in the passenger seat whilst i drove with them crawling all over trying to locate, they must have thought me bonkers having just paid £45k on a new car.
Cleaning away the excess glue inside on the leather.
seal on NS door to window didnt appear to fit properly and collected water
black under wheel arches flaking off
rear quarter paint not polished behind rear wheels
When removing the rear diffuser the bodywork wasnt painted, just overspray
Paintwork not polished in door recesses
One front and one rear light cluster let water in
Im sure there were others but im just too bored writing now.
So what in the nature of design affects any of the above.
It took me many months of pain, personal time and heart ache to get most of this sorted out, when clearly this should never never be the case, hand made or not unless stevie wonder and ray charles were on my production line.
And this car was my favourite of the 5 i had, suppose cos i bought it new and had to go through all the above, it just leaves a bad taste.
I still love the notion of tvr just not the day to day reality though
All IMHO you understand
N
But thats just my view
[/quote]
- Wow thanks for all the work !
Maybe the experiance will improve once you have got used the car and all its noises and temp sensors and what they do & don't do.
I'm like you (new owner) and spend most of my first few days looking at the gauges and listening out for any new sound. I guess when i'm used to these i can get on with enjoying the car for what it is.
I'm like you (new owner) and spend most of my first few days looking at the gauges and listening out for any new sound. I guess when i'm used to these i can get on with enjoying the car for what it is.
need4power said:
maybe stevie wonder and ray charles worked on yours but they didn't work on mine
What I meant was each one was different, so some people have good experiences and others don't. Question is, if you were not happy maybe you should have walked away, and found another one.
First of all im glad your happy with your tvr, i believe you got a good example maybe thats the excpetion.But everyone has different expectations, personally some people expect coating under wheel arches to flake off they expect light lense sealant to leak, cheap crap badge surrounds to corrode but i had all these things and others on my 03 car then my 55 car then my 06 car. Im sure a class of children could have come up with a solution in that time. And i knew many owners that bought new cars and i would say at least 75% suffered similar or worse issues. Its just not acceptable, i mean for god sake how long does it take to clean the excess glue from the leather.What I meant was each one was different, so some people have good experiences and others don't. Question is, if you were not happy maybe you should have walked away, and found another one.
Edited by need4power on Wednesday 12th November 00:37
Have you ever bought a new tvr or multiple cars, if you have maybe your assessment is valid. Maybe my sample of 5 cars wasnt big enough, i just kept buying another hoping things would be better, reality was it never was, after the Sag there was no where else to go really
What im saying is that things never really improved, such basic things that should have been sorted, it was left to owners to come up with better ways to redesign some of the aspects of there cars.
Mine wasnt the expection either, all the tvr meets i went too every car suffered, and the one i listed above with the massive snag list everyone else thought it was a shining example.
In fact the recent buyer of that very car looked at all the applicable ones for sale recently and couldnt find one in as good a condition as he wanted. So he put a wanted at to see what came out of the woodwork, he eventually bought my 55 plate T350C.
I loved the car in some respects cos i bought it new. I ran it in perfectly which always gave me peace of mind. Unfortunately my dealer closed down 2 months after i bought it so it was a major ball ache to find another dealer to take on the warranty work (power did a good job) but still certain things were not sorted to my satisfaction and was left needing put alot of my own time in to get it how i wanted.
After 18 months it was a good one, thats when i sold it, i think what had gone on previously had tarnish my view.
TBH - that was always the best time to buy a tvr, let the first owner sort all the niggles out ( and there are always plenty )then the second owner gets at sorted car.
The cars should have been so much better, and thats what really pains me.
N
Edited by Maxx-Waxx on Wednesday 12th November 11:52
triac said:
My new T350 (55) was delivered with a snag list as long as your arm.
Multiple paint imperfections / runs / lack of paint applied in certain areas leading to differing shades of blue / fibre glass join lines in the wing showing through / paint lifting in 2 places
Upto 300grams of weights on two spider wheels (they said it was the tyres fault - i later proved that wasnt the case - just cheap wheels made with poor QC)
Lack of paint on the inside of some of the wheels
Hubs which were corroding
Uneven ride heights
Corrosion of some of the metals under the bonnet
Rear quarter perspex panels lifting away from the sealant
Plastic lip on the top of the glass rear hatch was pitted and defective
Plastic covers for the rear hatch screws fell off
An awful creak which seemed to come from beneath the passenger side dash, it was never found by the dealer, they would spend anymore time on it as tvr wouldnt pay them for more than 2 hours labour and they spent 4.
I used to ask friends to sit in the passenger seat whilst i drove with them crawling all over trying to locate, they must have thought me bonkers having just paid £45k on a new car.
Cleaning away the excess glue inside on the leather.
seal on NS door to window didnt appear to fit properly and collected water
black under wheel arches flaking off
rear quarter paint not polished behind rear wheels
When removing the rear diffuser the bodywork wasnt painted, just overspray
Paintwork not polished in door recesses
One front and one rear light cluster let water in
Im sure there were others but im just too bored writing now.
So what in the nature of design affects any of the above.
It took me many months of pain, personal time and heart ache to get most of this sorted out, when clearly this should never never be the case, hand made or not unless stevie wonder and ray charles were on my production line.
And this car was my favourite of the 5 i had, suppose cos i bought it new and had to go through all the above, it just leaves a bad taste.
I still love the notion of tvr just not the day to day reality though
All IMHO you understand
N
But thats just my view
I know what you mean about the niggles. I do occasionally get a sinking feeling when I hear a noise or a squeak. After a year of ownership (t350) now though, I've relaxed. You really need to just stop worrying and drive it, if ever you feel a bit down about potential pitfalls, find that local b road and give it some welly. That always blows the cobwebs out of my mind.
I have at time thought about getting something different (when the clutch went), but a Porsche just isn't going to do the job, wont feel special and a Corvette just wreaks of cheapness when you're in it. The reality is, if you had a Maserati, an Esprit, a Ferrari of various sorts, whatever, they also would have problems. It's not correct that they don't go pop so much as perception. Check the respective forums.
All it takes to remind me why I didn't pick one of those is a warmed up engine and that howl when she pulls up her skirt and takes flight.
I have at time thought about getting something different (when the clutch went), but a Porsche just isn't going to do the job, wont feel special and a Corvette just wreaks of cheapness when you're in it. The reality is, if you had a Maserati, an Esprit, a Ferrari of various sorts, whatever, they also would have problems. It's not correct that they don't go pop so much as perception. Check the respective forums.
All it takes to remind me why I didn't pick one of those is a warmed up engine and that howl when she pulls up her skirt and takes flight.
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