Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres

[Murph7355]

Guycord said:

...
So in terms of diameter, the radius is 12.5mm larger on the DBS fronts, however, there is a 10mm reduction in front wheel width when compared to the V12V.

The rears are all but (exc diameter) the same and plant the same power down. Both have the same ceramic brake disks – so clearance there is not an issue....

Anyone with a bit more understanding why not?

G

12.5mm is a lot - check out how much clearance you think you have between tyre and arch static, and work 12.5mm out as a percentage of that space. (Have just done it on my normal V8V and it's something like 15%-20%). It could very, very easily make the difference between contact and not depending on how the suspension is set up and how far from the bump stops you are.

Also, I can imagine there are very marked differences in the set ups of both cars. The weight distribution is likely to be quite different for starters, as well as other differences between the cars (the wheelbase being a key one). Fitting wider fronts is often done to try and counter oversteer...so the sizes quoted might be an indication of the natural tendencies of both cars too.

I'm sure something could be done to fit 20" rims to the V12V (or V8V), but it would probably mean other compromises that are far from ideal. It wouldn't surprise me if Aston actually tried it. The two main reasons for fitting bigger rims are to allow bigger brakes, and aesthetics (Aston's generally don't lack in either). Though I guess it would also have rationalised tyre types potentially in this case.

[clorenzen]

When we were at Works Service attending the V12 day the engineer responsible for the V12 showed us some cad-cam drawings of wheel clearance within the wheel arches when the wheel is going from lock to lock and up and down and there were some clear limitations due to the much larger size and position of the V12 engine which had necessitated re-designing some vital parts of the engine - so without being an engineer but listening to that presentation i would presume that there is not much room to spare to fit other than the designated wheel/tyre combination.

[WantanewV12V]

clorenzen said:

When we were at Works Service attending the V12 day the engineer responsible for the V12 showed us some cad-cam drawings of wheel clearance within the wheel arches when the wheel is going from lock to lock and up and down and there were some clear limitations due to the much larger size and position of the V12 engine which had necessitated re-designing some vital parts of the engine - so without being an engineer but listening to that presentation i would presume that there is not much room to spare to fit other than the designated wheel/tyre combination.

Agree with Clorenzen, they were very clear about the effort that went in to getting things right in this area and the margins were tight.

[W1111AM]

I am seriously excited about these babies: Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R. I have just purchased 4 new boots for my lightweight track wheels... Going to take them on my Alpine Tour this coming weekend:

http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/car/sheet-motors...

Some pictures:

[J12MOC]

They look the Dogs Danglies. Hope it doesn't rain William !!

[Retman]

Crikey William there's a serious lack of grooves there, makes Corsa's look a bit girly. Have a great trip. Hope there's no snow!

[roughrider]

When altering wheel sizes, and tyre widths/profiles, you have to keep the percentage difference in circumference front to rear the same. Otherwise you will affect the DSC operation.

[W1111AM]

J12MOC said:

They look the Dogs Danglies. Hope it doesn't rain William !!

Thanks Martyn
The plan is - driving like a little shopping car if it rains . They can be driven in the rain but not with performance in mind...

[V12woollie]

Brave man fitting a tyre predominantly designed for track days for a drive out I hope the weather is good and warm and you get those babies sticky.

[robgt]

Recently came back from the Alps William. Very wet loads of snow, mist and rain! You will be just fine!

[JohnG1]

Holy thread resurrection...

I wonder if they are even road legal where I live?

Got that cut slick look, like it.

[W1111AM]

roughrider said:

When altering wheel sizes, and tyre widths/profiles, you have to keep the percentage difference in circumference front to rear the same. Otherwise you will affect the DSC operation.

Hi Paul
Hope you're well Sir!
Thanks for the important comment on DSC and diameters, good for everyone to remember...
The new track wheels are AM V12 wheels and the tyre sizes I am using are standard AM spec. My fronts and rears are both wider than my former 7 Spoke old style wheels.

[W1111AM]

robgt said:

Recently came back from the Alps William. Very wet loads of snow, mist and rain! You will be just fine!

Thanks all, I think I am going to be sensible and get some new P Zeros for this trip, the thought of snow and hard rubber made my face pull funny expressions

These new track wheels are doubling up as my winter wheels - I have done very well with the regular P Zeros in the winter, rear breakout is not so snappy as Corsa's.
My main HRE wheels will run the Corsa's in the summer.
I seem to be a Pirelli man, nothing against the Michelin Supersport's, I just have not tried them

[8Tech]

These guys are more competatively priced and seem to have stock.

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m55b0s7830p0/Car_Tyres_-...

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m55b0s7841p0/Car_Tyres_-...

[cptsideways]

W1111AM said:

I am seriously excited about these babies: Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R. I have just purchased 4 new boots for my lightweight track wheels... Going to take them on my Alpine Tour this coming weekend:

http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/car/sheet-motors...

Some pictures:

These are sooo much better in the wet than Corsa's !! They were originally developed as a wet tyre for rallying, softer compounds & a more open tread pattern.

[jonby]

8Tech said:

These guys are more competatively priced and seem to have stock.

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m55b0s7830p0/Car_Tyres_-...

http://www.camskill.co.uk/m55b0s7841p0/Car_Tyres_-...

That pricing isn't bad but apart from the small delivery charge of £3 per wheel, they also don't include fitting. All other things being equal, I assume you will pay more for fitting from a garage you haven't bought the tyres from than one that you have

What are people's experiences of charges in such instances ?

I've tended to find whenever I've needed tyres for my Aston or Audi, including the predecessors to the cars I have now, there is no one place consistently the cheapest although of course some places by & large are cheaper than others. I've never found a dealer able to get close to internet prices.

I'm going to need new fronts on my v12v shortly - I'm replacing them with identical Corsas to those currently fitted

A quick check on tyresavings.com (including fitting) just now got close to camskills price (excluding fitting), being £16 more expensive per tyre at £229.14 but that drops to a £13 difference when you add the delivery charge of camskills in, so do garages charge more or less than £13 for full fitting/disposal/etc and how would I get the tyres to a fitter unless I have them delivered direct ? My assumption has always been that a garage not supplying the tyres would charge c. £25 per tyre for fitting to including balancing, valves, disposal, etc but that's just a guess

FYI on a similar basis (inc vat & fitting) to tyresavings.com, black circles & etyres, two firms I've also used historically, came out at £237.99 & £234.50, so again not far off. I'm guessing Aston dealer price is £350 each +/- £50 ?

What I normally do btw is establish the cheapest net price as described above, which involves choosing a local garage of your choice to do the fitting (all included in the price) but then taken the quote direct to the (same) garage to see if they will beat/match it. I use my local Barry & Wilkinson and they are normally very appreciative as they earn very little per fitting when you buy tyres off the net from these types of firms. The manager always makes a point of fitting them himself when it's on the Aston.

[jonby]

I've done a bit more digging because as I mentioned in my previous post, I do need new fronts

I found this article in the telegraph with a link to a (not exhaustive) tyre price comparison tool. I then took the 2 cheapest prices and went direct to the sites in question

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/how-to/1059966...

ValueTyres.co.uk were second cheapest coming out at £225.79 including fitting at a local dealer, valves, disposal, etc, which I thought a really good price

The cheapest however are event-tyres.co.uk who came out at £218.28 each all. I would confirm to anyone who may be wondering, that's for the correct 'AM8' designation Corsas (there are lots of versions of the corsas in the correct size), which of course are slightly odd being directional for the fronts but L/R handed at the rear. All the quotes I refer to are also based on 2 tyres, as some places offer discounts for 2 & 4 tyres over a single tyre

My only slight concern having never used them however is that unlike all the other online retailers who allow you to choose a depot or just have them delivered, the event tyres quote includes a mobile fitter - I'm just a touch concerned how experienced such a fitter may be - corsas combined with tyre pressure monitoring aren't the easiest tyre in the world to fit

Incidentally another option is http://oponeo.com/ - I've heard a number of people use this firm - they are Polish, quote in $US and deliver to the UK Free of charge. They are currently quoting $325 which is £195 at current travelex tourist exchange rate, but that's plus fitting of course

Edited by jonby on Monday 21st July 11:49

[Zod]

jonby said:

FYI on a similar basis (inc vat & fitting) to tyresavings.com, black circles & etyres, two firms I've also used historically, came out at £237.99 & £234.50, so again not far off. I'm guessing Aston dealer price is £350 each +/- £50 ?

Nope. Fronts, including fitting, are North of £500. Rears over £600. Per tyre.

I had a fit when they invoiced me that much.

[jonby]

Zod said:

jonby said:

FYI on a similar basis (inc vat & fitting) to tyresavings.com, black circles & etyres, two firms I've also used historically, came out at £237.99 & £234.50, so again not far off. I'm guessing Aston dealer price is £350 each +/- £50 ?

Nope. Fronts, including fitting, are North of £500. Rears over £600. Per tyre.

I had a fit when they invoiced me that much.

I bet you had a fit ! I vaguely recall you mentioning this before - did you get anywhere when you complained ? I'm guessing little they could do ?

It's quite astonishing. I do recall something in the region of £600 being quoted by Stratstones when I needed rears, which I at first thought was for the pair. More than £500 for the fronts is outrageous and even the kwik fits & such like of this world surely charge less than £300 for fronts ? Seeing it in writing like that really hits home - over £2,200 for a full set compared to less than £1k source independently

Where I have a lot of sympathy with the dealers is that they only have one or at most 2 options to buy the tyres from and they will genuinely sell very few as V12V is the only car that uses corsas - discount the number of cars that are still on their first set of tyres and those that don't use corsas and you're not left with many buyers

Where I don't like the dealer attitude is that in an example such as yours, where they know how uncompetitive the pricing is, they should at least make you vaguely aware and give you chance to consider/shop around. Even though I do believe that the dealers could cut their profit to zero and still not get remotely competitive solely based on their cost price (surely the factory should be intervening to assist the dealers in not creating huge badwill) they are fully aware of the situation and shouldn't be taking advantage of customers

[8Tech]

I have found that as I purchase my day to day tyres from the same outlet, when it comes to my own specials, they will normally fit, valve and balance them for a "drink" of about £15.00 per tyre, a set of 4 would be a contribution of £40.00.
With online suppliers new getting more and more common, I suspect we may see these fitting prices going up soon.
With premesis, staff and utility bills, the fitting shops will struggle to compete with the suppliers only.