My new Vantage S Roadster
Discussion
Bit of an update
Just had a call from the factory to say the new seat will be shipped next week
Once JCT have it and are happy with it they will organise for one of the senior techs who has just come off 1-77 hand overs to come up to JCT and go through every issue with me.
Now that's more like it!
Just had a call from the factory to say the new seat will be shipped next week
Once JCT have it and are happy with it they will organise for one of the senior techs who has just come off 1-77 hand overs to come up to JCT and go through every issue with me.
Now that's more like it!
yeti said:
mikey k said:
New seat is at JCT and Factory "super" tech is booked for next week to spend the morning with me & the car
Tenner says he's a spotty YTS kid they've just employed from JLR.Or worse still, they deputise Paddy as he lives locally...
We will see!
Edited by mikey k on Sunday 2nd December 19:09
After a 3 hour drive over to JCT (M62 
) Des turned out to be VERY knowledgeable
We went through the list one by one then drove around in the car to demonstrate them
He is going to do some testing with a sound generator to try and pin them down with the JCT600 techs
The new seat was there, perfect with a new rack & frame ready to fit he is going to supervise that
Several of the issues he knew of and had solutions for
I do hope they manage to resolve them all and restore my faith
Showroom was looking a bit empty as they had a do on for HSBC the previus day with a 177, Zag & Vanquish
Must admit the back end of a Magma Red Vanquish looks
) Des turned out to be VERY knowledgeableWe went through the list one by one then drove around in the car to demonstrate them
He is going to do some testing with a sound generator to try and pin them down with the JCT600 techs
The new seat was there, perfect with a new rack & frame ready to fit he is going to supervise that
Several of the issues he knew of and had solutions for
I do hope they manage to resolve them all and restore my faith
Showroom was looking a bit empty as they had a do on for HSBC the previus day with a 177, Zag & Vanquish
Must admit the back end of a Magma Red Vanquish looks
Edited by mikey k on Wednesday 5th December 18:08
Reading through this thread again, while you are 100 per cent right to be fussy a few thoughts come to mind:-
1. How much profit is left in this for AM if any?
2. If I was AM would I want to sell you another car?
3. Are all their cars like this? Surely not
4. This sounds like the bad old good old days which Ford were supposed to have fixed
4. If they are as bad as this, is this the reason they are not selling more of what have to be the best looking cars on the planet, not making money and once more looking for an investor?
All in all I find it more than a bit depressing, though I do like the pictures.
1. How much profit is left in this for AM if any?
2. If I was AM would I want to sell you another car?
3. Are all their cars like this? Surely not
4. This sounds like the bad old good old days which Ford were supposed to have fixed
4. If they are as bad as this, is this the reason they are not selling more of what have to be the best looking cars on the planet, not making money and once more looking for an investor?
All in all I find it more than a bit depressing, though I do like the pictures.
I think AM budget for about £4.5k warranty work over the first three years. It will balance out across all the cars they sell.
I've never heard of anyone really take issue with the minor warranty work, it's almost part of the deal with a hand built car. And the good dealers use warranty work as an opportunity to build a great relationship with their customers, so overall if feels like a positive experience.
I've never heard of anyone really take issue with the minor warranty work, it's almost part of the deal with a hand built car. And the good dealers use warranty work as an opportunity to build a great relationship with their customers, so overall if feels like a positive experience.
I would rather they built the cars right and spent the money treating me to driver training or trips to Le Mans or the Nurburgring.
So does this happen with Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini or even top end Jaguars? I don't think so, and it would concern me that acceptance of extensive car by car warranty work is completely unsustainable. The distraction from what they are supposed to be doing must be incredible. This is what used to happen at Aston in the 60's and 70's, it put off a hell of a lot of potential owners, and you all know how that ended. The alternative unpalatable question this raises, with the greatest respect to all, is which has the greatest number of loose components, Mikey K or his car?
So does this happen with Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini or even top end Jaguars? I don't think so, and it would concern me that acceptance of extensive car by car warranty work is completely unsustainable. The distraction from what they are supposed to be doing must be incredible. This is what used to happen at Aston in the 60's and 70's, it put off a hell of a lot of potential owners, and you all know how that ended. The alternative unpalatable question this raises, with the greatest respect to all, is which has the greatest number of loose components, Mikey K or his car?
I genuinely think Mikey has been unlucky; he has every right to ensure his investment is rattle and fault free. From what I gather AM are doing there utmost to make the car perfect. Having now gone so public I feel AM should be offering a replacement vehicle whereupon the problem would be solved. I appreciate some cost would be involved though the goodwill it would generate would be tremendous. As it is people reading this forum are dredging up all the historical bad news about Aston Martin build quality which could and probably will put off potential customers. Before I purchased my first Vantage I diligently followed this forum and was thrilled and inspired. Had I read about Mikey's experience things could have turned out very differently.
Would it be fair to add that the Vantage was designed originally as a coupe, you lop the roof off which then leads to scuttle shake because the roof is a stressed member. Bracing the floor pan is never enough to stop this. the result is movement within the car which will lead to rattles. I believe the only manufacturer to not have this problem is Mclaren. The reason being that their MP4-12C was designed to be a roadster and a coupe.
My own Astons in 16500 miles are to date rattle and fault free despite some serious use. I firmly believe that are cars need regular using to ensure that they remain free of problems. That remark would highlight the fact that Mikey's car is the exception not the norm!
Would it be fair to add that the Vantage was designed originally as a coupe, you lop the roof off which then leads to scuttle shake because the roof is a stressed member. Bracing the floor pan is never enough to stop this. the result is movement within the car which will lead to rattles. I believe the only manufacturer to not have this problem is Mclaren. The reason being that their MP4-12C was designed to be a roadster and a coupe.
My own Astons in 16500 miles are to date rattle and fault free despite some serious use. I firmly believe that are cars need regular using to ensure that they remain free of problems. That remark would highlight the fact that Mikey's car is the exception not the norm!
cardigankid said:
So does this happen with Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini or even top end Jaguars? I don't think so...
Really? I reckon it does. Try searching for issues with new Ferrari's paint for example. Or the problems with McLaren's IRIS system and their door issues. I'm sure there are many other examples. Problems with cars like these aren't unheard of, and the problem certainly isn't limited to Aston.
cardigankid said:
So does this happen with Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini or even top end Jaguars?
Er - really??? Have a quick look in any Gallardo forum about the e-gear clutch. Some folks had Lamborghini fit 3,4 and even 5 clutches because the original clutch fitted was made of something with all the strength of a lump of cheddar. Last time I checked the Gallardo was on the type G clutch and I don't think seven is the total number of variants since I recall a "type E" and a "type E (sintered)".Or look at Jaguar Nikasil engine block liners.
Or the McLaren sat-nav that is not installed on initial production cars as it did not work.
Low volume cars without a big manufacturer to supply parts and ultra-high quality standards are always pretty flaky.
One of the factors is that owners of a car like this will be (rightly) far more picky than a more mainstream (cheaper) car (that doesn't affect say a clutch issue but it might a rattle issue).
Another is that mikey has clearly been unlucky - I don't think being a roadster has anything to do with it - mikey has had previous Astons and I'm guessing (?) would suggest this car is the exception rather than the rule ?
Another factor of course is that some manufacturers will clock up more in development miles on a single model cost than Aston's R&D budget is for the entire company - for a firm that makes a total of less than 5k cars p.a., that's to be expected
I actually see their attitude as a strength and not a weakness, though of course we would all see a perfect car off the production line as being the ideal. But the factory & dealer attitude to problems gives me on balance more confidence than misgivings. But I'm an Aston fan - I can see how someone who isn't (or is on the fence) might use the same facts to strengthen their 'anti' Aston feelings
Another is that mikey has clearly been unlucky - I don't think being a roadster has anything to do with it - mikey has had previous Astons and I'm guessing (?) would suggest this car is the exception rather than the rule ?
Another factor of course is that some manufacturers will clock up more in development miles on a single model cost than Aston's R&D budget is for the entire company - for a firm that makes a total of less than 5k cars p.a., that's to be expected
I actually see their attitude as a strength and not a weakness, though of course we would all see a perfect car off the production line as being the ideal. But the factory & dealer attitude to problems gives me on balance more confidence than misgivings. But I'm an Aston fan - I can see how someone who isn't (or is on the fence) might use the same facts to strengthen their 'anti' Aston feelings
cardigankid said:
So does this happen with Ferrari, Bentley, Lamborghini or even top end Jaguars? I don't think so, and it would concern me that acceptance of extensive car by car warranty work is completely unsustainable.
I think you don't know what you're talking about 
With the greatest of respect (as you have said a few times on this thread) have you ever owned a limited/small run performance car? You don't have a PH 'garage' or car history so hard to tell. If you had, unless you were an exception, you would realise that >all< performance cars suffer from niggles, it's the nature of the way they are built.
Mikey's issues are predominantly niggles too, he just had more than most and rightfully has zero tolerance for imperfections.
Your near-scaremongering posts help no-one. With repsect, naturally
Much of the warranty stuff is down to owner expectations, and how fussy an owner is.....
Personally, a few rattles and creaks, wouldn't bother me in the least, I came from a TVR
my 7 year old Vantage feels like a Rolls Royce to me...
If I'd bought it brand new, I may have a different perspective.... But being a realistic sort, I accept its a hand built almost 7 year old second hand car..... If it were perfect it'd be nice, but I sure ain't going to let a few squeaks and odd rattles spoil my enjoyment...
Personally, a few rattles and creaks, wouldn't bother me in the least, I came from a TVR
my 7 year old Vantage feels like a Rolls Royce to me...If I'd bought it brand new, I may have a different perspective.... But being a realistic sort, I accept its a hand built almost 7 year old second hand car..... If it were perfect it'd be nice, but I sure ain't going to let a few squeaks and odd rattles spoil my enjoyment...
Wow that provoked a few comments!
Cardigan - I've had two Vantages both with a long list of warranty claims, one reason I bought the S was to get away from the problems with my old Vantage. Over 3 decades of too many cars to think about I've only had 4 cars that have broken down in warranty, a Ford, a Renault and two Aston's
The persisting issues where there from day one, IMHO they should not have got past QC, the dealer PDI or the 4 visits to the dealers to fix them. I think people have cited enough issues with other brands to show AM are not alone. I do agree though AM need to deliver on the Quality promise you hear so much of on the factory tour.
Micheal - AM budget a fair bit more than that My last Vantage cost them well over £15k in the year I had it. As you say it is handmade and niggles are expected. However these go beyond that (ie a £5k new light weight seat) I am heartened by the factories response and sending Des out to take control.
Rob - I'd agree with your comments. I did "drop a subtle" about upgrading to a V12VR, but my fishing technique is obviously not good enough
The VH platform was designed to suits convertibles and tin tops, weirdly my old Vantage never suffered rattles and squeaks, it suffered mechanical and electrical gremlins.
Jonby - again all true. I'm an Aston fan (currently being tested ) but I'm not convinced I'm unlucky as you will see from my response to Cardigan. I am realistic but fussy and expect people/companies to deliver on their promises, from their actions I think AM accept the car needs improving as there has been no comments about TADTS or unrealistic expectations. I suspect most people would not have stuck with it the way I have.
Yeti & Luna sum it up well
My business makes realistic promises to customers, we then do our best to exceed expectations. As a result it makes good profits and grows well (enough to buy my dream - a £123k new Aston with no finance on it). I think AM need to learn that lesson. It might solve a few other problems for them as well.
Cardigan - I've had two Vantages both with a long list of warranty claims, one reason I bought the S was to get away from the problems with my old Vantage. Over 3 decades of too many cars to think about I've only had 4 cars that have broken down in warranty, a Ford, a Renault and two Aston's
The persisting issues where there from day one, IMHO they should not have got past QC, the dealer PDI or the 4 visits to the dealers to fix them. I think people have cited enough issues with other brands to show AM are not alone. I do agree though AM need to deliver on the Quality promise you hear so much of on the factory tour.Micheal - AM budget a fair bit more than that
My last Vantage cost them well over £15k in the year I had it. As you say it is handmade and niggles are expected. However these go beyond that (ie a £5k new light weight seat) I am heartened by the factories response and sending Des out to take control.Rob - I'd agree with your comments. I did "drop a subtle" about upgrading to a V12VR, but my fishing technique is obviously not good enough
The VH platform was designed to suits convertibles and tin tops, weirdly my old Vantage never suffered rattles and squeaks, it suffered mechanical and electrical gremlins.Jonby - again all true. I'm an Aston fan (currently being tested
) but I'm not convinced I'm unlucky as you will see from my response to Cardigan. I am realistic but fussy and expect people/companies to deliver on their promises, from their actions I think AM accept the car needs improving as there has been no comments about TADTS or unrealistic expectations. I suspect most people would not have stuck with it the way I have.Yeti & Luna sum it up well
My business makes realistic promises to customers, we then do our best to exceed expectations. As a result it makes good profits and grows well (enough to buy my dream - a £123k new Aston with no finance on it). I think AM need to learn that lesson. It might solve a few other problems for them as well.
I must say this has been a fantastic thread. Truly great insight into the trials, tribulations and also the real highlights of the ownership of a Vantage S through the eyes of an owner. I don't think it has put anyone off the ownership of such a fine machine, if anything it has given a good insight and why the first year warranty is so important. I am glad there are owners like mikey who put so much enthusiasm and time into making the car as perfect as they can be - and good on them. However the true moral of all this is clearly mikey is in the right industry at the moment to afford a Vantage S without finance! 
No seriously mikey, great thread, great insight and certainly has been very educational.
No seriously mikey, great thread, great insight and certainly has been very educational.yeti said:
cardigankid said:
acceptance of extensive car by car warranty work is unsustainable.
I think you don't know what you're talking about With the greatest of respect (as you have said a few times on this thread) have you ever owned a limited/small run performance car? You don't have a PH 'garage' or car history so hard to tell. If you had, unless you were an exception, you would realise that >all< performance cars suffer from niggles, it's the nature of the way they are built.
Mikey's issues are predominantly niggles too, he just had more than most and rightfully has zero tolerance for imperfections.
Your near-scaremongering posts help no-one. With respect, naturally
Is Mikey excessively fastidious? Is it normal to require to have the paintwork 'corrected' on a brand new 123k car? Does a company like Aston Martin expect this volume of warranty cost on a vehicle, even if this is an extreme case? I am old enough to remember what happened in the late 60's and early 70's and I know that contributed to Aston Martin's troubles at that time, in terms of cost, disruption and discouraging potential buyers. I would not like to think they are going back into that kind of situation. If you sell luxury cars you can reasonably expect to have to change their owners nappies on occasion, but something like this isn't normal and it isn't business either.
I just do not believe that a car company could sustain this kind of carry on on a significant proportion of their products, and if you think it can be expected to continue indefinitely you must be a real optimist.
I don't claim to be an expert. I have never owned a new Aston Martin, I am afraid, but I have owned a DB5 (way before they hit today's stratospheric values) an old Bentley, E Type, Triumph TR4A and TR5, new cars include Porsche Boxster, Honda S2000, Jaguar XKR, two X350 XJR's, BMW E46 M3, X5 and 328i. I have a number of close personal friends with a range of new cars including Bentleys, Porsches, Maseratis and others. A couple of them have had the occasional issue, but nothing like this. My own warranty claims run to new discs on an XJR, and a stream of electrical problems with the X5. I applaud Mikey's choice of car and ability to purchase it, but this shouldn't happen. Either Mikey is going OTT or Aston's quality control is wrong. You tell me which.
Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 6th December 22:23
Neilc123 said:
I must say this has been a fantastic thread. Truly great insight into the trials, tribulations and also the real highlights of the ownership of a Vantage S through the eyes of an owner.
See what I mean? You think I'm scaremongering?At first I thought this thread followed an entirely praiseworthy attempt to achieve automotive perfection. Now I'm not sure that it is. Either AM's quality control is abysmal or some people think it is clever or amusing to see how much they can hit AM for in warranty claims. Personally I would rather they got their rocks off trying to bankrupt Ferrari.
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