Discussion
vpr said:
RobDown said:
Sorry going a bit off topic there
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I've owned and sold quite a few and made zero difference except in the case of a Vantage converted to a manual where it has attracted a higher price than if was left autoNeinFondue said:
DB9VolanteDriver said:
DBS worldwide = 3385 plus/minus, not 4252
Updated... Thanks Steve and Nick.DBS Coupe (Worldwide): ~2533
DBS Coupe (UK):
DBS Coupe Manual (Worldwide):
DBS Coupe Manual (UK):
DBS Volante (Worldwide): 852?
DBS Volante (UK): 214?
DBS Volante Manual (Worldwide):
DBS Volante Manual (UK): ~7
RobDown said:
I assume you mean DBS, because if you mean DB5 then as a, now ex, owner of a DB5 (but still a very close observer of the market) I 100% disagree
I meant the DB6. "The automatic is so awful that I wouldn't keep chickens in one"
Robert Edwards - Aston Martin Ever The Thoroughbred
But also true of the DBS I6, I would imagine.
My contention is that a DB6 with the auto box removed and an appropriate manual installed will make more money than it would with the auto still in place. But less than a DB6 that had a manual box all along.
I'm pretty sure I've seen it over the years of watching the market. You'd probably have to keep the auto box and sell it with the car so a future owner can return it to the original spec, if required. No-one ever will.
AMDBSVNick said:
As posted previously an absolute fact is there are 8 RHD cars.
UK 7
SA 1
This was from a very senior director at the factory whose identity I promised to protect for no other reason than he didn't want endless requests for how many Blue blah blah etc.
I assume you mean RHD DBS Volante with Manual gearbox here? That is a real small number. I do remember the Top Gear one seen in the Romanian road trip (Lightning Silver with Chancellor Red). Then 35 LHD DBS Volantes with manual gearbox remain (of which 3 over here in NL, 2 in Hammerhead silver, one Black UB2010). UK 7
SA 1
This was from a very senior director at the factory whose identity I promised to protect for no other reason than he didn't want endless requests for how many Blue blah blah etc.
AWV12 said:
AMDBSVNick said:
As posted previously an absolute fact is there are 8 RHD cars.
UK 7
SA 1
This was from a very senior director at the factory whose identity I promised to protect for no other reason than he didn't want endless requests for how many Blue blah blah etc.
I assume you mean RHD DBS Volante with Manual gearbox here? UK 7
SA 1
This was from a very senior director at the factory whose identity I promised to protect for no other reason than he didn't want endless requests for how many Blue blah blah etc.
AWV12 said:
Then 35 LHD DBS Volantes with manual gearbox remain (of which 3 over here in NL, 2 in Hammerhead silver, one Black UB2010).
Apparently there are 43 manual LHD DBS Volante, one of which for sale at Kroymans Aston Martin in NL:https://kroymans.nl/stock/stock-detail/12850743/As...
CSK1 said:
AWV12 said:
Then 35 LHD DBS Volantes with manual gearbox remain (of which 3 over here in NL, 2 in Hammerhead silver, one Black UB2010).
Apparently there are 43 manual LHD DBS Volante, one of which for sale at Kroymans Aston Martin in NL:https://kroymans.nl/stock/stock-detail/12850743/As...
AstonZagato said:
I meant the DB6.
"The automatic is so awful that I wouldn't keep chickens in one"
Robert Edwards - Aston Martin Ever The Thoroughbred
But also true of the DBS I6, I would imagine.
My contention is that a DB6 with the auto box removed and an appropriate manual installed will make more money than it would with the auto still in place. But less than a DB6 that had a manual box all along.
I'm pretty sure I've seen it over the years of watching the market. You'd probably have to keep the auto box and sell it with the car so a future owner can return it to the original spec, if required. No-one ever will.
I know a few DBS undergoing restoration at the moment and most are having a manual box put in IIRC. "The automatic is so awful that I wouldn't keep chickens in one"
Robert Edwards - Aston Martin Ever The Thoroughbred
But also true of the DBS I6, I would imagine.
My contention is that a DB6 with the auto box removed and an appropriate manual installed will make more money than it would with the auto still in place. But less than a DB6 that had a manual box all along.
I'm pretty sure I've seen it over the years of watching the market. You'd probably have to keep the auto box and sell it with the car so a future owner can return it to the original spec, if required. No-one ever will.
AMDBSVNick said:
CSK1 said:
AWV12 said:
Then 35 LHD DBS Volantes with manual gearbox remain (of which 3 over here in NL, 2 in Hammerhead silver, one Black UB2010).
Apparently there are 43 manual LHD DBS Volante, one of which for sale at Kroymans Aston Martin in NL:https://kroymans.nl/stock/stock-detail/12850743/As...
V8LM said:
I know a few DBS undergoing restoration at the moment and most are having a manual box put in IIRC.
But to bring this back on topic, my original point remains that a converted car will not fetch as much as an original factory manual (plus you have the cost of conversion). So if you intend to buy a modern DBS with a view to keeping as a long term classic you might be better off biting the bullet today and paying the premium to swap from a TT to a genuine manualLatheron said:
Hi Nick, I still have two DBS Manuals but do need to part company with one soon, when do you reckon is the best time? and for what value?
Well that obviously depends on age, mileage etc.I simply follow the MD prices purely out of interest. Mine ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
I'm going to be a bit controversial.
I'm not sure the current large premium for manuals is going to last. Premiums will but not large ones.
Firstly, there seem to be enough manuals around that there is nearly always a selection for sale. Does than make them rare enough? Maybe not.
Secondly, and more importantly, the TT2 cars are in no way compromised by their gearbox. I think it can even be argued that it suits the car better (it certainly gives it a more Jekyll and Hyde character). Furthermore, as the top end cars go increasingly paddle shift, the mechanics of exactly how the gearbox works will fade in importance to buyers. Also as roads get more congested, the advantages of a decent auto grow.
I don't really care either way - mine's not for sale - but it will be interesting to see how the market develops over the next decade.
I'm not sure the current large premium for manuals is going to last. Premiums will but not large ones.
Firstly, there seem to be enough manuals around that there is nearly always a selection for sale. Does than make them rare enough? Maybe not.
Secondly, and more importantly, the TT2 cars are in no way compromised by their gearbox. I think it can even be argued that it suits the car better (it certainly gives it a more Jekyll and Hyde character). Furthermore, as the top end cars go increasingly paddle shift, the mechanics of exactly how the gearbox works will fade in importance to buyers. Also as roads get more congested, the advantages of a decent auto grow.
I don't really care either way - mine's not for sale - but it will be interesting to see how the market develops over the next decade.
it has to be entirely possible, tastes could easily change. I guess my four main arguments for a manual retaining a premium though would be:
1. They are definitely rarer (particularly on the Volante)
2. Who buys classic cars - tends to be motoring/driving enthusiasts. And for the moment they definitely go for manuals as they are seen to be more involving (And as you say the older auto boxes tend to be pretty awful).
3. While 2 could change I'm not convinced. Consider; the future of motoring appears to be a) electric and b) more autonomous cars. In my head that will trigger a backlash - if your daily 'driver' is an autonomous car - what you will want at weekends for fun will surely be the opposite, a loud v12 petrol-sucking monster, something with as much hands on involvement as possible, not a car with a computer controlled gearchange.
4. Finally at a practical level. I worry (a little) about longer term reliability of the TT/SS transmissions. Maybe I'm wrong to be concerned (someone who knows more can tell me). But will the electronic gubbins in the TT system last for 50 years? Or will it just become a non-functioning money-pit? I feel a little more comfortable with the longevity of the simple mechanicals of a manual transmission
Purely a personal opinion of course with an unhealthy dollop of crystal ball gazing
1. They are definitely rarer (particularly on the Volante)
2. Who buys classic cars - tends to be motoring/driving enthusiasts. And for the moment they definitely go for manuals as they are seen to be more involving (And as you say the older auto boxes tend to be pretty awful).
3. While 2 could change I'm not convinced. Consider; the future of motoring appears to be a) electric and b) more autonomous cars. In my head that will trigger a backlash - if your daily 'driver' is an autonomous car - what you will want at weekends for fun will surely be the opposite, a loud v12 petrol-sucking monster, something with as much hands on involvement as possible, not a car with a computer controlled gearchange.
4. Finally at a practical level. I worry (a little) about longer term reliability of the TT/SS transmissions. Maybe I'm wrong to be concerned (someone who knows more can tell me). But will the electronic gubbins in the TT system last for 50 years? Or will it just become a non-functioning money-pit? I feel a little more comfortable with the longevity of the simple mechanicals of a manual transmission
Purely a personal opinion of course with an unhealthy dollop of crystal ball gazing
RobDown said:
it has to be entirely possible, tastes could easily change. I guess my four main arguments for a manual retaining a premium though would be:
1. They are definitely rarer (particularly on the Volante)
No question. And would have been on the coupe if they'd produced them in TT2 from launch.1. They are definitely rarer (particularly on the Volante)
But rare enough? I'm not so sure.
RobDown said:
2. Who buys classic cars - tends to be motoring/driving enthusiasts. And for the moment they definitely go for manuals as they are seen to be more involving (And as you say the older auto boxes tend to be pretty awful).
Agreed. For the moment. It won't be our generation buying these cars in 20 years time. It will be our children. Paddles don't have the same stigma to them that they do our generation today. And the TT2 gearbox is far from awful. It is, in fact, outstandingly good. And suits the car. In the real world (at least in the crowded UK), it is the better 'box to have.
I'd warrant that a large majority of "manual-only" drivers would actually buy a TT2 car, if they drove one for any time.
RobDown said:
3. While 2 could change I'm not convinced. Consider; the future of motoring appears to be a) electric and b) more autonomous cars. In my head that will trigger a backlash - if your daily 'driver' is an autonomous car - what you will want at weekends for fun will surely be the opposite, a loud v12 petrol-sucking monster, something with as much hands on involvement as possible, not a car with a computer controlled gearchange.
You might be right. But to a generation that has grown up with F12, Veyron, P1s etc as the "halo" cars, paddles are the mark of a sports car? I'm not so sure. The manual is the mark of their dad's car.RobDown said:
4. Finally at a practical level. I worry (a little) about longer term reliability of the TT/SS transmissions. Maybe I'm wrong to be concerned (someone who knows more can tell me). But will the electronic gubbins in the TT system last for 50 years? Or will it just become a non-functioning money-pit? I feel a little more comfortable with the longevity of the simple mechanicals of a manual transmission
Definitely simpler. But if you worry about the computer in the gearbox, you need to worry far more about the other computers in the car. If the engine ECU blows, it doesn't really matter what gearbox you have.RobDown said:
Purely a personal opinion of course with an unhealthy dollop of crystal ball gazing
Likewise.AstonZagato said:
P.Griffin said:
AstonZagato said:
Firstly, there seem to be enough manuals around that there is nearly always a selection for sale.
You did say you were going to be controversial
Edited by P.Griffin on Thursday 1st December 14:12
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