V12V Bamford Rose upgrade - cat is out of the bag!!

[Guycord]

johng39 said:

Superb......superb. It will be at least EPIC and more likely Cosmic

To be honest Guy, I laughed the whole way home. Not that I don't smile everytime I drive it anyway, just not as wide as I do now. You are going to love it, but if you go for the 200 CATS it is ear splitting.

I'll be giving BR a call tomorrow to confirm the dates as I'll be away while the work is being done. However, Mike is aware that I did not want the V12V to be any louder than it currently is i.e. not like Yeti's full-bore exhaust system - which i beleive adds even more power but is significantly louder than original.

I think the package I originally looked for was this (i.e. higher torque/power without the noise):-
Exhaust Manifolds
Cats
Cams raised from 9.8mm to 11.5mm

Looks (sounds) like the Cats stay in the bag!


Rgds

G

Edited by Guycord on Tuesday 16th October 23:23

[DavidV12V]

Blimy - I've been following this with interest and sounds fantastic - those figures are amazing for such "minor" changes and must be great fun. Not being likely to drive your car or sit in it (shame) it'd be good to try to get an understanding of the impact of the changes beyond the numbers. For example, for me the difference from the 4.7 V8 tot he V12 was like going from a BMW 320 to an M3, both in terms of the power, handling, and sense of occasion (if you know what I mean?). How would you compare the difference going from your standard V12V to Lance? Is it just about the power and torque or does it "feel" like a different car?

I did mention to the other half about this and possibility of doing a similar upgrade, perhaps call it Arthur (after Arthur Linton, infamous bicycle drugs fiend from 1896), but she asked "why would you want more power?"

Enough said...

[johng39]

Guycord said:

I'll be giving BR a call tomorrow to confirm the dates as I'll be away while the work is being done. However, Mike is aware that I did not want the V12V to be any louder than it currently is i.e. not like Yeti's full-bore exhaust system - which i beleive adds even more power but is significantly louder than original.

I think the package I originally looked for was this (i.e. higher torque/power without the noise):-
Exhaust Manifolds
Cats
Cams raised from 9.8mm to 11.5mm

Looks (sounds) like the Cats stay in the bag!


Rgds

G

without the cats it is louder than standard, but in a good way. With cats. ear splitting, without a beautiful bark at around 3000rpm and then it starts to build to the redline. Yeti's is the better engineered exhaust, no doubt; but expensive and changes the noise significantly.

[johng39]

DavidV12V said:

Blimy - I've been following this with interest and sounds fantastic - those figures are amazing for such "minor" changes and must be great fun. Not being likely to drive your car or sit in it (shame) it'd be good to try to get an understanding of the impact of the changes beyond the numbers. For example, for me the difference from the 4.7 V8 tot he V12 was like going from a BMW 320 to an M3, both in terms of the power, handling, and sense of occasion (if you know what I mean?). How would you compare the difference going from your standard V12V to Lance? Is it just about the power and torque or does it "feel" like a different car?

I did mention to the other half about this and possibility of doing a similar upgrade, perhaps call it Arthur (after Arthur Linton, infamous bicycle drugs fiend from 1896), but she asked "why would you want more power?"

Enough said...

The noise is different, so the senses are given a work over anyway!! Not in a bad way, in a good way. Let's face it the V12V is the hooligan in the AM line-up, it is the snorting angry one that if you don't treat it nicely will rip you limb from limb. So to add more power and torque is just plain crazy, until you drive it that is. Look at the graphs and you will see the biggest difference is the mid-range torque around 3000rpm, it is smooth and more progressive than standard, so it feels like it will accelerate the same in almost any gear all the way to the redline. I took out my 19 year old son yesterday and in 4th gear at 2000rpm I accelerated and the pull was fantastic, he could not believe the difference; it really ticks all of the boxes for me in the overall drivability of the car. Then there were the tunnels on the way home EPIC.

Interestingly I drove a 4.7 V8V yesterday which was great, I went in Nick's DBS and you can feel the difference between the 2 in terms of mid range torque, this adds almost as much again in the mid range and when pressing on, the difference is it's willingness to hit the rev limiter quickly. Not quite the leap from a V8 to a V12 in honesty, but damn good.

My missus said that, just as she was buying a new jacket. I said you already have 10 jackets, but she said that she liked this one ......... Enough said

Edited by johng39 on Wednesday 17th October 09:45

[yeti]

I am surprised that the rear catalysts only added 5bhp... I guess the big gains had been made removing the manifold cats..?

I know that if you do nothing else and just change the rear catalysts you get quite a big change, certainly more than 5bhp; but of course with a major improvement like the manifold system, it becomes a law of diminishing returns, gains become incremental. I wonder what power my exhaust system with the F1 collectors would do to your power levels..? Can't do anything but guess I suppose, this is after all one big, noisy science and engineering project

I'd be tempted for those rear catalysts just for weight saving, although that saving would be offset by adding in an additional silencer to keep your delicate cockney ears safe. I'm looking to change the noise my car makes, not from the high end scream it makes (which I love!!) but at idle and up to 2500rpm, it sounds like... well, nothing really. Might fit a DBS back-box or see what the guys can come up with otherwise

[mcm66]

The previous owner of my DB9 replaced back box with a custom, it's loud, but not to my taste (don't get me wrong, like the loud but just not the note). So the question is, I loved the sound of my previous vanquish, and wouldn't mind getting the valves back to switch noise off at times, any ideas on best options?

[Simon T]

Anyone noticed the difference in acceleration from low revs with 22 in or out? I built a switchable fuse link for my V12V from £7.99 garage door remote control relay, so its easy to do back to back comparisons. It seems to pull a lot more smoothly with the valves open, be interesting to see the difference in the torque curve

S

[marceltay]

mcm66 said:

The previous owner of my DB9 replaced back box with a custom, it's loud, but not to my taste (don't get me wrong, like the loud but just not the note). So the question is, I loved the sound of my previous vanquish, and wouldn't mind getting the valves back to switch noise off at times, any ideas on best options?

Go with the standard back box, and replace the secondary cats with the 200 cell race cats.. At least that is what I did, and it sounds pretty brutal above 3000rpm..

[marceltay]

johng39 said:

I have gone for the downgraded and lowly 565BHP with the standard CATS. As I am sure Nick will tell you, the upgraded CATS made it sound like the end of the world. It was a static 112dB and a drive-by 113dB, it would have made my ears bleed after 15 minutes at full chat and so I opted for the slightly quieter 102dB static & 108 dB drive-by. Don't get me wrong, the sound was glorious, it just needs a resonator after the CATS to quieten it a little.

So now it sounds awesome, a nice deep burble and at the top end it sounds not unlike a very angry V8V. It sounds fantastic and I drove all the way down the motorway in loud mode. The first noise hits at 3000RPM and then it rises all the way to 7500RPM.

Excellent! Guess I should keep my standard cats close by..

Mike, can you put aside my standard cats? Might need to go back to standard cats if/when I decide to get the manifolds replaced.. Thanks!

[johng39]

marceltay said:

johng39 said:

I have gone for the downgraded and lowly 565BHP with the standard CATS. As I am sure Nick will tell you, the upgraded CATS made it sound like the end of the world. It was a static 112dB and a drive-by 113dB, it would have made my ears bleed after 15 minutes at full chat and so I opted for the slightly quieter 102dB static & 108 dB drive-by. Don't get me wrong, the sound was glorious, it just needs a resonator after the CATS to quieten it a little.

So now it sounds awesome, a nice deep burble and at the top end it sounds not unlike a very angry V8V. It sounds fantastic and I drove all the way down the motorway in loud mode. The first noise hits at 3000RPM and then it rises all the way to 7500RPM.

Excellent! Guess I should keep my standard cats close by..

Mike, can you put aside my standard cats? Might need to go back to standard cats if/when I decide to get the manifolds replaced.. Thanks!

For me yes. You benefit from the primary cats keeping things quieter. If you have both it is LOUD. You may love it, I did not. Therefore 200 cell cats on standard manifolds = good choice on the BR manifolds = FECKING LOUD. Remember this is only mine and the whole village of Halford's opinion, I think someone in Gloucestershire made a complaint also!!!!!!

[johng39]

mcm66 said:

The previous owner of my DB9 replaced back box with a custom, it's loud, but not to my taste (don't get me wrong, like the loud but just not the note). So the question is, I loved the sound of my previous vanquish, and wouldn't mind getting the valves back to switch noise off at times, any ideas on best options?

Standard back box with 200 cell cats or go the whole hog and have the BR manifolds and a standard back box. Either way it will sound great and you will get some extra horses into the bargain.

[Tony V12V]

johng39 said:

For me yes. You benefit from the primary cats keeping things quieter. If you have both it is LOUD. You may love it, I did not. Therefore 200 cell cats on standard manifolds = good choice on the BR manifolds = FECKING LOUD. Remember this is only mine and the whole village of Halford's opinion, I think someone in Gloucestershire made a complaint also!!!!!!

Have stopped laughing yet???? Last time I heard that laugh was in the hotel Car Park at Spa ( you know....SPA)when we showed you the pix of what the car park 'vandals' had done

[johng39]

Tony V12V said:

Have stopped laughing yet???? Last time I heard that laugh was in the hotel Car Park at Spa ( you know....SPA)when we showed you the pix of what the car park 'vandals' had done

No still laughing

[ScottBlack]

Does BR have a US dealer?

[mikey k]

ScottBlack said:

Does BR have a US dealer?

Not at the moment

[johng39]

So almost a week on and I have now been able to drive Lance in more situations than flat out country lane and motorway cruising. Yes I have driven it in town and I can report that it behaves itself exactly like the standard car. Starting is as before, cold running (with a lovely crackle on over-run )is as before, so all in all it has turned out a success.

Low speed is un-affected, in fact slightly better on acceleration at around 2,000 rpm as it pulls very well. The tickover is completely un-affected by the changes, I seriously thought that the cams would change the super smooth V12, but I was wrong.

So in summary, it pulls better throughout the rev range, ticks over with a slightly deeper and a tad noisier tone and when you unleash it....... oh yes, it is crazy. The noise is about as loud as I would want it, but the overall drivability has definately been improved. It was difficult for me to say earlier in the week, as I had no experience of the tickover and town driving.

I hope that helps?

Cheers

Cockerneeeeeeeeee

[ScottBlack]

johng39 said:

So almost a week on and I have now been able to drive Lance in more situations than flat out country lane and motorway cruising. Yes I have driven it in town and I can report that it behaves itself exactly like the standard car. Starting is as before, cold running (with a lovely crackle on over-run )is as before, so all in all it has turned out a success.

Low speed is un-affected, in fact slightly better on acceleration at around 2,000 rpm as it pulls very well. The tickover is completely un-affected by the changes, I seriously thought that the cams would change the super smooth V12, but I was wrong.

So in summary, it pulls better throughout the rev range, ticks over with a slightly deeper and a tad noisier tone and when you unleash it....... oh yes, it is crazy. The noise is about as loud as I would want it, but the overall drivability has definately been improved. It was difficult for me to say earlier in the week, as I had no experience of the tickover and town driving.

I hope that helps?

Cheers

Cockerneeeeeeeeee

Did the mods affect emissions?

[ScottBlack]

johng39 said:

So almost a week on and I have now been able to drive Lance in more situations than flat out country lane and motorway cruising. Yes I have driven it in town and I can report that it behaves itself exactly like the standard car. Starting is as before, cold running (with a lovely crackle on over-run )is as before, so all in all it has turned out a success.

Low speed is un-affected, in fact slightly better on acceleration at around 2,000 rpm as it pulls very well. The tickover is completely un-affected by the changes, I seriously thought that the cams would change the super smooth V12, but I was wrong.

So in summary, it pulls better throughout the rev range, ticks over with a slightly deeper and a tad noisier tone and when you unleash it....... oh yes, it is crazy. The noise is about as loud as I would want it, but the overall drivability has definately been improved. It was difficult for me to say earlier in the week, as I had no experience of the tickover and town driving.

I hope that helps?

Cheers

Cockerneeeeeeeeee

Did the mods affect emissions?

[George H]

ScottBlack said:

Did the mods affect emissions?

Why would anyone care? Don't buy an Aston in the first place if emissions are a worry.

[johng39]

ScottBlack said:

Did the mods affect emissions?

They are within UK MOT guidelines, in fact it will be MOT'd tomorrow. My understanding is that the deletion of primary CATS only affects the start up emissions, that an MOT does not check. I have standard cats in and therefore it has not changed anything in that respect.

Remember the lambda sensors are all retained and these obviously control the emissions (Mike would be the best person to comment)