Vantage or F Type ?
Discussion
tonyhall38 said:
i agree the XKR-S is probaly a better car...faster , stability etc...but..the interior is still all plastic , it looks no where near a good as any of the AM range....and is not a fanny magnet....i do know this because i used to have xkr's and the such...in the new form and the old....my DB9 was drolled over by Jag owners wanting one but couldn't afford one....and when i got my DBS....f
k me...i was nearly thrown out of the jag club meets i went too..(only to show off).....the fact remains....if you asked which would you prefer....a Jag or Aston....9 times out of 10....even though the jag maybe a better car...people say Aston.....and in my opinion that more than makes up for it's short falls etc...and besides all that...Jeagar Le coutuer...(spelling wrong i know)...do not do a watch for the XKR-S....i think it is more of a Sekonda associated type brand.;)
9 out of 10 have never owned and lived with both! The Aston is a lovely looking thing, and the leather inside is very nice. I love idea of them but every time I drive them I walk away feeling underwhelmed.k me...i was nearly thrown out of the jag club meets i went too..(only to show off).....the fact remains....if you asked which would you prefer....a Jag or Aston....9 times out of 10....even though the jag maybe a better car...people say Aston.....and in my opinion that more than makes up for it's short falls etc...and besides all that...Jeagar Le coutuer...(spelling wrong i know)...do not do a watch for the XKR-S....i think it is more of a Sekonda associated type brand.;)The interior is the Jag is a bit dated, most of it is leather though, and unlike every Aston we own / have owned, it all works and does not fall apart after a few thousand miles.
In the end it comes down to a decision between being the best looking chap on the beach, but having to keep a sock in the front of your swimmers because what is down there is a tad small and does not have much stamina, or accepting that you may not be quite as well groomed and highly attractive, but you know you will provide more satisfaction ultimately!,
Little Donkey said:
Copy cat side strakes, bonnet vents and an attempt at a signature grill are the order of the day, but it's all nasty plastic. The bonnet vents are a black plastic mesh and the grill with the big black bumper moulding running through it just looks cheap.
On the interior, there's this big "grab handle" on the passenger side next to a very BMW looking gear selector which is just plain ugly and spoils the cabin. Considering you can spec this thing well North of £80K it feels just way too mass produced. Late forties to mid fifties, sixty grand tops is where this model should be. Not eighty plus! The rear is distinctive enough but as for the rest of it, well it's disappointing. If it was a new MR2 then you could say it looks OK and for a more sensible price I could see it doing well. but £80k? Don't think so and definitely not a rival for an Aston.
I mention MR2 because in the metal, the styling looks a bit Japanese in my opinion. Now I know I'm making a comparison without driving it, but you'd have to be Stevie Wonder to even consider comparing the Jag with and an Aston. And in my opinion, Jag have done Aston a favour, especially those dealers that share with Aston, because it makes the vantage look a bargain when sat side by side.
Completely agree. It is a SLK AMG/Z4/TT RS/Boxster rival, nothing more nothing less. Because the exorbitant price Jaguar seems arrogant enough to ask for this nice looking roadster, they place it completely in the wrong area, and it will (incorrectly) be compared [by the press, potential buyers, etc] with much better/higher valued cars like the 911, V8V, etc (see also Tiff Needell's first drive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIlEx7h9u4U I think nobody would doubt between these two cars, especially not when you did see and feel the [lack of] built quality of the F type in real life, which is below par!). On the interior, there's this big "grab handle" on the passenger side next to a very BMW looking gear selector which is just plain ugly and spoils the cabin. Considering you can spec this thing well North of £80K it feels just way too mass produced. Late forties to mid fifties, sixty grand tops is where this model should be. Not eighty plus! The rear is distinctive enough but as for the rest of it, well it's disappointing. If it was a new MR2 then you could say it looks OK and for a more sensible price I could see it doing well. but £80k? Don't think so and definitely not a rival for an Aston.
I mention MR2 because in the metal, the styling looks a bit Japanese in my opinion. Now I know I'm making a comparison without driving it, but you'd have to be Stevie Wonder to even consider comparing the Jag with and an Aston. And in my opinion, Jag have done Aston a favour, especially those dealers that share with Aston, because it makes the vantage look a bargain when sat side by side.
pb1695 said:
My tongue was in my cheek, nor did I resort to crude abuse, nor will I.
Indeed - Mr Hall needs to wash his mouth with soap 
I note, Paul, that your company is charging £899 for a day in an Aston Martin Vanquish, or £445 for an XKR-S, or £345 for an F-type.
I appreciate the different RRPs of these cars but as a fellow business owner I would advise it best not to hark on about how underwhelming you find Aston Martins to be when you are quite gushing about them on your business site (which btw is excellent)
I saw a prototype F-Type about a month ago.
Took some photo's which I will include below.
First impressions were, it's a Jag!,, but after seeing it throughout the day it grew on me.
The styling isn't so bad and I imagine there is certainly a market for these cars.
Would I trade my Aston for one - NO!
Would I have one to use if offered - YES!
Took some photo's which I will include below.
First impressions were, it's a Jag!,, but after seeing it throughout the day it grew on me.
The styling isn't so bad and I imagine there is certainly a market for these cars.
Would I trade my Aston for one - NO!
Would I have one to use if offered - YES!
pb1695 said:
In the end it comes down to a decision between being the best looking chap on the beach, but having to keep a sock in the front of your swimmers because what is down there is a tad small and does not have much stamina, or accepting that you may not be quite as well groomed and highly attractive, but you know you will provide more satisfaction ultimately!,
I am just looking forward to trying an F-Type as I have heard and read very good things
The interior quality at the official presentation in Billingsgate did not look bad at all (but the cheapest there had 10000 ukp of option for a "base price as seen" of more than 60000 with the V8 exceeding 90000)
Also Tiff seems to enjoy it (and I am curious to see when the coupe will be out) even if the 911 is still the track best
Edited by Riccardino on Monday 22 April 11:36
Doesn't the "which one is best" argument come down to personal taste? There will always be those who prefer the jag over the Aston or Porsche or whatever just as there will always be those who prefer ( insert whatever here).
However, commercially the Jag will have consequences on the Vantage sales in my opinion, and we have all agreed here before Aston need to do more than just another face lift or IF they decide to replace the current Vantage range. At the end of the day they can only go so far before even hardened owners decide to move to another brand when the technology and build gap open up too far.
I personally am very curious as to Astons next Vantage class offering, should there be one. That particular market has just got a lot more difficult (especially considering the 991 version Porsche too) and they may well decide to concentrate their very limited resources on the DB9 market and above. Time will tell.
However, commercially the Jag will have consequences on the Vantage sales in my opinion, and we have all agreed here before Aston need to do more than just another face lift or IF they decide to replace the current Vantage range. At the end of the day they can only go so far before even hardened owners decide to move to another brand when the technology and build gap open up too far.
I personally am very curious as to Astons next Vantage class offering, should there be one. That particular market has just got a lot more difficult (especially considering the 991 version Porsche too) and they may well decide to concentrate their very limited resources on the DB9 market and above. Time will tell.
Copied from my post on the F Type blog!
Had my drive this morning courtesy of Hatfields in Wakefield. V8S in Firesand with Black Pack, Black wheels, Performance Seats / Premium Leather Dash with Orange Contrast Stitch, Loud button for the exhaust and Meridian Hi Fi. Pretty much the same spec as our own as it happens!
In 1 1/2 hours, I drove up the M1 to Aberford, over to Tadcaster, on to Bramham and then onto one of my favourite roads - Bramham to Thorner. Back to Bramham, down to Stutton and back, via Garforth, into Wakefield. A great mix of roads. John, from Hatfield's in the passenger seat, was safely strapped in, and given strict instructions not to whimper like a baby.
I will not give an in depth review of the looks as they are a personal thing, I for one love the look, the rear, especially from a 3/4 view, is lovely. The front, to my eyes, is a bit Ferrari California looking, no bad thing, but IMO all very well resolved.
Build quality looks very good, the paint finish excellent, panel gaps nice and even, and the roof is of very high quality. The interior is very nicely finished, again, well constructed from good materials, but certainly not bespoke in the Aston mould. The driving position, for me, was excellent. Plenty of seat adjustment, the sports seats are very supportive. The dash is nice and clutter free, instruments clear and easy to read quickly. I did not bother messing about with the Dynamic i system, straight into Dynamic mode, track DSC, exhaust loud button pressed, and off we go onto Denby Dale road.
OMG, the NOISE! Within 30 seconds, the grin stretched from ear to ear, John was gripping the centre grab handle, the exhaust emitted multiple staccato pops, bags and explosions, the rear tyres left two black lines on the asphalt, and we made rapid "progress" to the first roundabout. I reminded myself that we were on a public road, with a 40 limit, and that the BIB often hide further along behind the Nissan dealer. Holding back was a struggle.
The motorway section was a little boring, but even roof down ,the amount of buffeting inside (no wind deflector) was bearable. Stability is excellent, and the ride is firm but smooth. The steering is very direct, but, on the motorway, is not too sensitive and allows a nice straight line to be ploughed. After what seemed an age, we finally reached the Aberford turning, up the slip road, off the roundabout, and POWWWWEEERRRRR.
Power delivery is perfect, not so much that the rears lose grip too easily, and throw it away. The throttle is nicely weighted, with a great linearity, so that each input, large or small, is transmitted as intended. The gearbox, described as Quickshift, is exactly what it say on the tin. Again, the bellowing roar of the V8 on a surge is intoxicating, and the pop, bang, explosion of lift off has you diving to avoid the non existing bullets from the imaginary nearby firing range.
Turn in to the first corner, easy does it to get a feel for the loading of the tyres, and the impression is of near perfect neutrality. No understeer, front end dives into the corner and the rear faithfully follows. After a few more tight corners, we come across some lovely long sweepers. A chance to push the car a little more and explore a bit of oversteer. This car is so easy to play with. Power, slide, correct, shoot forwards on a crescendo of instant torquey traction. Again and again, I repeated the technique. Very effortless, but the chassis has a lovely balance, and leaves you feeling the hero.
Travelling from Bramham to Thorner, one of my favourite roads. Long straights with a few kinks and plenty of undulations, a couple of sharp corners and a great downhill left - right with an off camber right turn before a sharp left between two tight walls, followed by a gentle right, off camber uphill, before easing off until the road comes into view again. Back on the power, look left to see the the road further downhill is clear, sharp left and downhill again.
Whatever the surface, however difficult, this car just copes, without fuss, and with enormous grace and pace. The steering, though light, gives lovely feedback, is linear in turn in, and confident on the straight ahead. The suspension is always unflustered, very little roll, plenty of seat of the pants feedback, and firm but forgiving. Oversteer is easy to provoke, but also controllable, understeer virtually non existent.
Rarely have I driven a car that immediately feels at one with you, flatters you but also leaves you grinning, laughing, and searching out the next challenge just for the sheer hell of it. And the noise just gets better and better, intoxicating you and egging you to keep trying harder and harder.
Now I am a Jag fan, but also have to - purely for the purposes of my business - drive a great range of exotica. The F Type would, in any context, hold it's own no matter what the competition. This is a truly great car, maybe not bespoke like an Aston, focussed like a 458, exemplary like an MP4 or unhinged like the SLS. It is distillation of all of these, Extremely fast, wonderful noisy, brutish in a British tradition, but more importantly, full of sporting intent, just how a Jaguar should be.
Great car, great fun. Thank you John for not crying, or complaining that I used a full tank of fuel. And a set of rears!
Had my drive this morning courtesy of Hatfields in Wakefield. V8S in Firesand with Black Pack, Black wheels, Performance Seats / Premium Leather Dash with Orange Contrast Stitch, Loud button for the exhaust and Meridian Hi Fi. Pretty much the same spec as our own as it happens!
In 1 1/2 hours, I drove up the M1 to Aberford, over to Tadcaster, on to Bramham and then onto one of my favourite roads - Bramham to Thorner. Back to Bramham, down to Stutton and back, via Garforth, into Wakefield. A great mix of roads. John, from Hatfield's in the passenger seat, was safely strapped in, and given strict instructions not to whimper like a baby.
I will not give an in depth review of the looks as they are a personal thing, I for one love the look, the rear, especially from a 3/4 view, is lovely. The front, to my eyes, is a bit Ferrari California looking, no bad thing, but IMO all very well resolved.
Build quality looks very good, the paint finish excellent, panel gaps nice and even, and the roof is of very high quality. The interior is very nicely finished, again, well constructed from good materials, but certainly not bespoke in the Aston mould. The driving position, for me, was excellent. Plenty of seat adjustment, the sports seats are very supportive. The dash is nice and clutter free, instruments clear and easy to read quickly. I did not bother messing about with the Dynamic i system, straight into Dynamic mode, track DSC, exhaust loud button pressed, and off we go onto Denby Dale road.
OMG, the NOISE! Within 30 seconds, the grin stretched from ear to ear, John was gripping the centre grab handle, the exhaust emitted multiple staccato pops, bags and explosions, the rear tyres left two black lines on the asphalt, and we made rapid "progress" to the first roundabout. I reminded myself that we were on a public road, with a 40 limit, and that the BIB often hide further along behind the Nissan dealer. Holding back was a struggle.
The motorway section was a little boring, but even roof down ,the amount of buffeting inside (no wind deflector) was bearable. Stability is excellent, and the ride is firm but smooth. The steering is very direct, but, on the motorway, is not too sensitive and allows a nice straight line to be ploughed. After what seemed an age, we finally reached the Aberford turning, up the slip road, off the roundabout, and POWWWWEEERRRRR.
Power delivery is perfect, not so much that the rears lose grip too easily, and throw it away. The throttle is nicely weighted, with a great linearity, so that each input, large or small, is transmitted as intended. The gearbox, described as Quickshift, is exactly what it say on the tin. Again, the bellowing roar of the V8 on a surge is intoxicating, and the pop, bang, explosion of lift off has you diving to avoid the non existing bullets from the imaginary nearby firing range.
Turn in to the first corner, easy does it to get a feel for the loading of the tyres, and the impression is of near perfect neutrality. No understeer, front end dives into the corner and the rear faithfully follows. After a few more tight corners, we come across some lovely long sweepers. A chance to push the car a little more and explore a bit of oversteer. This car is so easy to play with. Power, slide, correct, shoot forwards on a crescendo of instant torquey traction. Again and again, I repeated the technique. Very effortless, but the chassis has a lovely balance, and leaves you feeling the hero.
Travelling from Bramham to Thorner, one of my favourite roads. Long straights with a few kinks and plenty of undulations, a couple of sharp corners and a great downhill left - right with an off camber right turn before a sharp left between two tight walls, followed by a gentle right, off camber uphill, before easing off until the road comes into view again. Back on the power, look left to see the the road further downhill is clear, sharp left and downhill again.
Whatever the surface, however difficult, this car just copes, without fuss, and with enormous grace and pace. The steering, though light, gives lovely feedback, is linear in turn in, and confident on the straight ahead. The suspension is always unflustered, very little roll, plenty of seat of the pants feedback, and firm but forgiving. Oversteer is easy to provoke, but also controllable, understeer virtually non existent.
Rarely have I driven a car that immediately feels at one with you, flatters you but also leaves you grinning, laughing, and searching out the next challenge just for the sheer hell of it. And the noise just gets better and better, intoxicating you and egging you to keep trying harder and harder.
Now I am a Jag fan, but also have to - purely for the purposes of my business - drive a great range of exotica. The F Type would, in any context, hold it's own no matter what the competition. This is a truly great car, maybe not bespoke like an Aston, focussed like a 458, exemplary like an MP4 or unhinged like the SLS. It is distillation of all of these, Extremely fast, wonderful noisy, brutish in a British tradition, but more importantly, full of sporting intent, just how a Jaguar should be.
Great car, great fun. Thank you John for not crying, or complaining that I used a full tank of fuel. And a set of rears!
I drove a V8 f-type today and I totally agree with Paul, I was blown away. It's a fantastic motor, and yes a better noise than my Vantage. A really sorted chassis that handled the 495bhp with ease. Aston better get their finger out with the new Vantage cos back to back (taking the Badge out of the equation) I cannot see many peeps choosing a Vantage over this. I have driven many decent cars over the years, and the only one I prefer over the f-type is the 458. It had the drama of an Aston and the sorted chassis of a 911, and the noise from heaven. The only thing I did not like was the positioning of the paddles, too easy to press by accident and in the way of your fingers.
Edited by sadlerj on Saturday 27th April 15:57
sadlerj said:
I drove a V8 f-type today and I totally agree with Paul, I was blown away. It's a fantastic motor, and yes a better noise than my Vantage. A really sorted chassis that handled the 495bhp with ease. Aston better get their finger out with the new Vantage cos back to back (taking the Badge out of the equation) I cannot see many peeps choosing a Vantage over this. I have driven many decent cars over the years, and the only one I prefer over the f-type is the 458. It had the drama of an Aston and the sorted chassis of a 911, and the noise from heaven. The only thing I did not like was the positioning of the paddles, too easy to press by accident and in the way of your fingers.
So curious, now that you have driven one, would you part ex the Vantage for an F Type then? Serious question because like you I do think AM will lose sales to the jag, but probably more from potential owners than current owners, if that makes sense! And as my comment above, I think the Vantage market is seriously competitive and even more so with the latest version of the 911 and the F type - I wonder if AM have the resources to carry on competing in it (need a big leap rather than just a face lift and new sat nav, for example) or if they will let it go?Edited by sadlerj on Saturday 27th April 15:57
steveatesh said:
So curious, now that you have driven one, would you part ex the Vantage for an F Type then? Serious question because like you I do think AM will lose sales to the jag, but probably more from potential owners than current owners, if that makes sense! And as my comment above, I think the Vantage market is seriously competitive and even more so with the latest version of the 911 and the F type - I wonder if AM have the resources to carry on competing in it (need a big leap rather than just a face lift and new sat nav, for example) or if they will let it go?
This is the debate I am wrestling with tonight, I drove the same route home in the Aston (B2141 East Lavant to South Harting, IMO one of the best in the South) that I did the test drive in, and the Aston was not 1/2 as composed, or as loud, but was I having £60k (what I would need to find to trade in the Aston) more fun in the Jag... Probably not... I know the later Astons are better than my 2006 (with later added Sports Pack) version but really the Jag was better, so if it were a like for like purchase decision then the Jag would win. I love the Aston brand, and there is a lot of "Astonness" missing from the Jag, but the way the car drove easily makes up for that.My top three favourite cars I have ever driven now are...458, 430 Strad...and now the V8 F-type has taken number 3 spot away from the V12V..it really is that good...but I do love V8s...
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