Vantage or F Type ?
Discussion
As a bit of a (older) Jag fan I was looking forward to the F-type but was expecting it to be more of a Boxster rival than a Vantage alternative.
I think it looks pretty good, but I agree with comments above - it's (a bit) too heavy and (a bit) too large, but the real clincher for me is that it only comes with a torque converter auto box. That's a real mistake IMHO. Even an automated manual would have been OK to some extent. Maybe it's me, but I just don't understand the reluctance to fit manual boxes to sports cars.
I think it looks pretty good, but I agree with comments above - it's (a bit) too heavy and (a bit) too large, but the real clincher for me is that it only comes with a torque converter auto box. That's a real mistake IMHO. Even an automated manual would have been OK to some extent. Maybe it's me, but I just don't understand the reluctance to fit manual boxes to sports cars.
drcarrera said:
Maybe it's me, but I just don't understand the reluctance to fit manual boxes to sports cars.
Nor me... But we seem to be in a minority. You offer a manual box; less than 10% pick it, you stop offering it. Sad but it's the way it's going. The art of driving doesn't interest most people it seems. 
yeti said:
Nor me... But we seem to be in a minority. You offer a manual box; less than 10% pick it, you stop offering it. Sad but it's the way it's going. The art of driving doesn't interest most people it seems.
Well, I've just gone to a DB9 sans manual, and this after years with a very rare DB7V manual! To be honest the amount of time I used the manual box for 'spirited driving' versus being sat in traffic with an achy leg or on a long run doing what GTs do best, I don't find it worth it. That said, I left my XKR in favour of the DB7, largely because the Jag didn't excite me. I may yet regret my decision, but I guess we'll just have to see!yeti said:
Nor me... But we seem to be in a minority. You offer a manual box; less than 10% pick it, you stop offering it. Sad but it's the way it's going. The art of driving doesn't interest most people it seems.
Had about 4 years away from a manual, but couldn't wait to be reaquainted when the vantage came along. Can't beat it, one of the reasons why I never really loved the Mazza. George H said:
Not really. I'd say the only reason you would buy an XK is because you couldn't afford/afford to run a DB9. I'd say the same with this F Type... only difference is, they're pretty much the same price by the time you've added a few toys.
Vantage / DB9 can't even look at an xkr for performance, build quality, running costs, drive, spec options etc. XKR is a far better car, just doesn't have the badge appeal. I will still get one at some point though as they look so nice. jakesmith said:
Vantage / DB9 can't even look at an xkr for performance, build quality, running costs, drive, spec options etc. XKR is a far better car, just doesn't have the badge appeal. I will still get one at some point though as they look so nice.
Having owned both....one is beautifully engineered the other mass produced. The difference is huge. Make sure you drive both before you buy. Oh and I see you can now buy an XKR for under £6k. When the V8V gets down to that price I will have one for each day of the week 
jakesmith said:
Vantage / DB9 can't even look at an xkr for performance, build quality, running costs, drive, spec options etc. XKR is a far better car, just doesn't have the badge appeal. I will still get one at some point though as they look so nice.
Define better please, isn't it horses for courses? For me as I said last time we had this discussion (2 weeks ago?) using these cars on public roads in the UK to their limits is nigh on impossible and the odd MPH or fraction of a second on 0-60 time makes no difference whatsoever, so I don't consider them relevant to my own choice. The fact is no matter how nice a Jag is, it's not an Aston, and while many people will buy one for their own reasons, many people will not. For me, the brand was the biggest decider when I bought my Vantage.
I saw this self same discussion on the Porsche forum too, seeing as how Jag seem to be pitching it against every other premium car!
I know this is an aston forum and you love your cars but subjectively, despite having the cash and a lifelong desire to buy one, it was a poor car compared to its peers
The Aston I tried at a main dealers few weeks ago put me off the marque to the point that I bought a 997 c4s that I had previously thought too boring... The vantage was so badly put together. The engineering is a joke. Unreadable speedo, offset pedals, horrible stuff clutch and gear stick, terrible switchgear including an indicator stalk that felt like it would snap every time, unreadable radio display, loose trim, buzzes and rattles from 360 degrees around me, very thirsty even on a clear run, unusable satnav, seat heaters and heater that were completely inadequate on a mild day with roof open, not fast enough, didn't sound that good unless under a bridge.
The xkr was solid inside, comfy, full of tech like big screen sat nav, fast enough to actually see off cars like m3's which the vantage can't, and for the same cash could get one 3 years newer. I didn't go for it as it felt too big and I also feared for my license as its auto only and manual gives me more prompts to back off when accelerating.
The Aston was the most dissapointing car I ever drove and my boxster felt so much nicer afterwards. Bought a c4s in the end which is fine, the r8 was nice too but I wanted a convertible.
The Aston is great for a special euro trip or something and I don't deny their cachet and prestige and appearance is unequalled but as a car i felt it was poor compared to the 997, jag, r8.
The Aston I tried at a main dealers few weeks ago put me off the marque to the point that I bought a 997 c4s that I had previously thought too boring... The vantage was so badly put together. The engineering is a joke. Unreadable speedo, offset pedals, horrible stuff clutch and gear stick, terrible switchgear including an indicator stalk that felt like it would snap every time, unreadable radio display, loose trim, buzzes and rattles from 360 degrees around me, very thirsty even on a clear run, unusable satnav, seat heaters and heater that were completely inadequate on a mild day with roof open, not fast enough, didn't sound that good unless under a bridge.
The xkr was solid inside, comfy, full of tech like big screen sat nav, fast enough to actually see off cars like m3's which the vantage can't, and for the same cash could get one 3 years newer. I didn't go for it as it felt too big and I also feared for my license as its auto only and manual gives me more prompts to back off when accelerating.
The Aston was the most dissapointing car I ever drove and my boxster felt so much nicer afterwards. Bought a c4s in the end which is fine, the r8 was nice too but I wanted a convertible.
The Aston is great for a special euro trip or something and I don't deny their cachet and prestige and appearance is unequalled but as a car i felt it was poor compared to the 997, jag, r8.
steveatesh said:
Define better please, isn't it horses for courses? For me as I said last time we had this discussion (2 weeks ago?) using these cars on public roads in the UK to their limits is nigh on impossible and the odd MPH or fraction of a second on 0-60 time makes no difference whatsoever, so I don't consider them relevant to my own choice.
The fact is no matter how nice a Jag is, it's not an Aston, and while many people will buy one for their own reasons, many people will not. For me, the brand was the biggest decider when I bought my Vantage.
I saw this self same discussion on the Porsche forum too, seeing as how Jag seem to be pitching it against every other premium car!
Perfectly reasoned argument there, you bought the brand. In the end I didn't want such a compromised product just to have the brand but I do totally get the appeal. If the 4.7 build is improved I'd love to have one in a couple years the interior was nicer. But it would need to be a step up from what I tried like going from 996 to 997 or similarThe fact is no matter how nice a Jag is, it's not an Aston, and while many people will buy one for their own reasons, many people will not. For me, the brand was the biggest decider when I bought my Vantage.
I saw this self same discussion on the Porsche forum too, seeing as how Jag seem to be pitching it against every other premium car!
George H said:
Not really. I'd say the only reason you would buy an XK is because you couldn't afford/afford to run a DB9. I'd say the same with this F Type... only difference is, they're pretty much the same price by the time you've added a few toys.
What a load.The Emperors new clothes spring to mind. As long as you believe it that's all that matters.
jakesmith said:
Perfectly reasoned argument there, you bought the brand. In the end I didn't want such a compromised product just to have the brand but I do totally get the appeal. If the 4.7 build is improved I'd love to have one in a couple years the interior was nicer. But it would need to be a step up from what I tried like going from 996 to 997 or similar
Sounds like you had a bad one there, was it an early Vantage? My own has proved to be mechanically reliable, I find it beautiful to drive but accept its not a car to go hooning in (or at least I don't think so, anyway). The sense of occasion is fantastic IMHO and I'm not intending to change it anytime soon! As it happens I've just ordered a 981 Boxster for my wife so I'll get a taste of Porsche soon. The F type was a consideration but it turned out bigger than i thought and way more expensive too, so I chose the 981. 10 years ago I set off to the Aston dealer to fulfill a lifelong ambition and buy a DB9. I had a long test drive - a full day - and at the end of it came away disappointed. The build was poor and the car felt as if it was not quite fully developed - poor gearbox, suspension ill sorted, steering vague etc.
On the way home I passed the Jag dealer and popped in to look at the XKR, the next day off I went for a day's test drive - what a revelation, a properly sorted car, albeit with light but consistent steering, a proper ride / handling balance and great throttle respond and performance.
I bought the Jag on the spot, and since that first 4.2 I have had 2 5.0 S/C XKR's and recently bought (for the business) an XKR-S. During that time I have also had, again for the business, a V8V, DB9 with Sport Pack and DBS.
Not once in that time did I ever think of the Jag as being a poor mans Aston, but always as a much better car. In terms of defining better, build quality, reliability, handling balance, ride set up, overall performance and dealer service / attitude all played a part. Some of these are going to be subjective however I remember Top Gear Magazine running a comparison between the XKR and DBS and proclaiming the XKR to be probably the best GT in the world at that time - so I am not alone.
I still long to own an Aston, every time I look at one I believe the shape has a purpose and coherency that the Jag lacks, especially the forming of the nose and front wings / bumper. Even though the current Aston's are much better than previous incarnations, they are still not competitive dynamically IMO.
Our F Type is on order - V8, Italian Racing Red with Black Alloys and Red interior. I cannot wait to test drive one, if Jag's current form is anything to go by I am sure it will be sensational. Would I have a V8V instead (or a new DB9 instead of the XKR-S)? Absolutely not. Do I still long to own an Aston one day? Absolutely do - just waiting for them to make one properly!
On the way home I passed the Jag dealer and popped in to look at the XKR, the next day off I went for a day's test drive - what a revelation, a properly sorted car, albeit with light but consistent steering, a proper ride / handling balance and great throttle respond and performance.
I bought the Jag on the spot, and since that first 4.2 I have had 2 5.0 S/C XKR's and recently bought (for the business) an XKR-S. During that time I have also had, again for the business, a V8V, DB9 with Sport Pack and DBS.
Not once in that time did I ever think of the Jag as being a poor mans Aston, but always as a much better car. In terms of defining better, build quality, reliability, handling balance, ride set up, overall performance and dealer service / attitude all played a part. Some of these are going to be subjective however I remember Top Gear Magazine running a comparison between the XKR and DBS and proclaiming the XKR to be probably the best GT in the world at that time - so I am not alone.
I still long to own an Aston, every time I look at one I believe the shape has a purpose and coherency that the Jag lacks, especially the forming of the nose and front wings / bumper. Even though the current Aston's are much better than previous incarnations, they are still not competitive dynamically IMO.
Our F Type is on order - V8, Italian Racing Red with Black Alloys and Red interior. I cannot wait to test drive one, if Jag's current form is anything to go by I am sure it will be sensational. Would I have a V8V instead (or a new DB9 instead of the XKR-S)? Absolutely not. Do I still long to own an Aston one day? Absolutely do - just waiting for them to make one properly!
steveatesh said:
Sounds like you had a bad one there, was it an early Vantage? My own has proved to be mechanically reliable, I find it beautiful to drive but accept its not a car to go hooning in (or at least I don't think so, anyway). The sense of occasion is fantastic IMHO and I'm not intending to change it anytime soon! As it happens I've just ordered a 981 Boxster for my wife so I'll get a taste of Porsche soon. The F type was a consideration but it turned out bigger than i thought and way more expensive too, so I chose the 981.
Hi, it was an 07 model year with new seats, I also tried an 08 with the new armrest. I researched Vantages for 6 months+, read Grants book cover to cover, started threads on here, spoke to Nicholas Mee, Trinity Engineering, pugsley and Lewis, and Bamford's Rose. I got familiar and comfortable with the running costs, which were high (some of which seemed to be down to poorly thought out engineering increasing labour time for servicing), the reliability seemed acceptable (although clutch life is aweful and Bamford's charge £4.2k to put a decent unit in vs. £1k in a porsche), I was primed to buy one, but the actual drive was nowhere near as good as the other cars I tried. I still want one every time I see one and have resigned myself to buy one at some point but they aren't brilliant cars, however good they look and make you feel. You'll find the 981 boxster light years ahead in terms of build and how nice it is to drive, it just suffers from ignorant idiots saying 'poor mans porsche' even though when specced up I can be pushing £70,000!
yeti said:
Are Mercedes still driven as staff cars by the Nazis
I am german and i drive ONLY english cars since 1995 - as for the F-Type: i like it 
compared to the Vantage V8S - i would say it is a different kind of car btw: we also own actually a new Jaguar XK 5.0l and it is a very cool everyday car - it's about time that AM should update the V8V now ! It is getting boring and common and now you can find some cheap second hand cars here and that isn't very helpfull.... you know what i mean...
are these threads just an excuse for people to justify their buying decisions to each other ?
lets face it, if you can afford a £70k or a £100K car you are pretty well off compared to the majority of the population
as modes of transport, both cars are more than adequate
so its a just game of playground Top Trumps, comparing statistics "this one is better VFM " This one looks more pretty" "this one is 0.3secs faster"
we could say the truth will be in the sales figures, but then the Jag will usually win there too ...I cant remember the last time an Aston outsold a Jag so does it win on popularity or lose because its too common
lets face it, if you can afford a £70k or a £100K car you are pretty well off compared to the majority of the population
as modes of transport, both cars are more than adequate
so its a just game of playground Top Trumps, comparing statistics "this one is better VFM " This one looks more pretty" "this one is 0.3secs faster"
we could say the truth will be in the sales figures, but then the Jag will usually win there too ...I cant remember the last time an Aston outsold a Jag so does it win on popularity or lose because its too common
bogie said:
are these threads just an excuse for people to justify their buying decisions to each other ?
lets face it, if you can afford a £70k or a £100K car you are pretty well off compared to the majority of the population
as modes of transport, both cars are more than adequate
so its a just game of playground Top Trumps, comparing statistics "this one is better VFM " This one looks more pretty" "this one is 0.3secs faster"
we could say the truth will be in the sales figures, but then the Jag will usually win there too ...I cant remember the last time an Aston outsold a Jag so does it win on popularity or lose because its too common
Yes, they are. lets face it, if you can afford a £70k or a £100K car you are pretty well off compared to the majority of the population
as modes of transport, both cars are more than adequate
so its a just game of playground Top Trumps, comparing statistics "this one is better VFM " This one looks more pretty" "this one is 0.3secs faster"
we could say the truth will be in the sales figures, but then the Jag will usually win there too ...I cant remember the last time an Aston outsold a Jag so does it win on popularity or lose because its too common
People buy cars for their own reasons and to suit themselves. So whether you buy a Jag, a Porche, an AM or whatever, the choice is right for you.
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