Vantage or F Type ?
Discussion
jakesmith said:
Vantage / DB9 can't even look at an xkr for performance, build quality, running costs, drive, spec options etc. XKR is a far better car, just doesn't have the badge appeal. I will still get one at some point though as they look so nice.
On the performance front, there's 3bhp/ton difference between the XKR and the DB9. Hardly an amazing amount. Plus the DB9 has a higher top speed if you care about that sort of thing. Build quality is debatable. The Jag is probably put together better but having had a look around one id say some of the parts seem inferior quality. I.e designed for mass production so compromised. You only have to see a Jag XK next to an Aston and it really shows which one is mass produced. Have you seen the interior for example? What a dull, dreary place to sit. Could just be any old BMW/Merc/generic car. The Aston is such a nice place to sit, it might not be as ergonomic as the Jag but I know where I'd rather be.
Running costs, yep will be cheaper with the Jag no doubt. By how much I don't know. What's servicing like on an XKR? Same with fuel consumption?
To drive, well I've not driven one but I doubt it's night and day from the Aston. Probably worse on paper due to excess weight.
As for spec, what else do you need than what's in the Aston, either as standard or as an option? Auto headlights/wipers maybe? They've been added to the 2013 model. I really can't think many things I'd like extra over what it has already.
George H said:
jakesmith said:
Vantage / DB9 can't even look at an xkr for performance, build quality, running costs, drive, spec options etc. XKR is a far better car, just doesn't have the badge appeal. I will still get one at some point though as they look so nice.
On the performance front, there's 3bhp/ton difference between the XKR and the DB9. Hardly an amazing amount. Plus the DB9 has a higher top speed if you care about that sort of thing. Build quality is debatable. The Jag is probably put together better but having had a look around one id say some of the parts seem inferior quality. I.e designed for mass production so compromised. You only have to see a Jag XK next to an Aston and it really shows which one is mass produced. Have you seen the interior for example? What a dull, dreary place to sit. Could just be any old BMW/Merc/generic car. The Aston is such a nice place to sit, it might not be as ergonomic as the Jag but I know where I'd rather be.
Running costs, yep will be cheaper with the Jag no doubt. By how much I don't know. What's servicing like on an XKR? Same with fuel consumption?
To drive, well I've not driven one but I doubt it's night and day from the Aston. Probably worse on paper due to excess weight.
As for spec, what else do you need than what's in the Aston, either as standard or as an option? Auto headlights/wipers maybe? They've been added to the 2013 model. I really can't think many things I'd like extra over what it has already.
I think the biggest difference between Aston and Jag is their respective development budgets!
A Jag is more likely to be fully developed from the word go, whereas I can't help feeling there's still some work to do over the first few years of an Aston's life. This is especially true with the early VH platform cars. It also means the "tech" is never likely to be up there with the best.
My MY11 V8V seems very sorted - no rattles and squeaks and no really annoying idiosyncrasies. I probably wouldn't think the same if I had a MY06 unless it had been extensively fettled. But then a MY06 V8V would probably cost less than half that of the new F-type so it's not a fair comparison anyway.
There's still something "special" about an Aston Martin which sets it apart from other marques. Not necessarily better, but different. And depending on your individual needs and tastes, for many of us that will mean we prefer the Aston, even if, "on paper", it's not the superior car.
A Jag is more likely to be fully developed from the word go, whereas I can't help feeling there's still some work to do over the first few years of an Aston's life. This is especially true with the early VH platform cars. It also means the "tech" is never likely to be up there with the best.
My MY11 V8V seems very sorted - no rattles and squeaks and no really annoying idiosyncrasies. I probably wouldn't think the same if I had a MY06 unless it had been extensively fettled. But then a MY06 V8V would probably cost less than half that of the new F-type so it's not a fair comparison anyway.
There's still something "special" about an Aston Martin which sets it apart from other marques. Not necessarily better, but different. And depending on your individual needs and tastes, for many of us that will mean we prefer the Aston, even if, "on paper", it's not the superior car.
silverspeed said:
You can even spec a reversing camera now but I didn't. Mirrors and bleepers are fine for me. The one thing I would change is the key or ECU. It should be keyless start - keep the ECU leave it in your pocket and just have a push button start.
I guess an option wouldn't go amiss. I love starting the car with the ECU personally. Only irritating thing is when it can fire out when turning off the car!
Interesting.... I guess i must be the odd one out when i read these posts and apply all of the comments to my own life!
I have the Vantage for use when i am not carrying the family around (Although i have to agree with some of the comments about poor build quality) and I have stayed with Jaguar & Mercedes for the family cars for many years now. (wife likes the Mercs and i like the Jags)
Out of the 3 marques the Jaguars have been the most reliable, the most cost effective, excellent to drive, look nice if you get the sporty versions, i just cannot fault them. I get the occasional comment about it being an 'old mans' car, but i get more abuse when driving the Aston!
The Mercedes have been ok over the years but the newer models are not as good as the older ones in terms of build quality, reliability and the fuel economy is just cr*p!
I have tried various other marques over the years, some i have liked, some i really hated! but i have to say the Jag has been one of the better ones. I may have been lucky? I may have received the same experience from having Ford Mondeos?? But wahtever the reason, my previous experiences makes me favour the idea of the F type.
When one becomes available at my local dealer I will be going for a test drive...
I have the Vantage for use when i am not carrying the family around (Although i have to agree with some of the comments about poor build quality) and I have stayed with Jaguar & Mercedes for the family cars for many years now. (wife likes the Mercs and i like the Jags)
Out of the 3 marques the Jaguars have been the most reliable, the most cost effective, excellent to drive, look nice if you get the sporty versions, i just cannot fault them. I get the occasional comment about it being an 'old mans' car, but i get more abuse when driving the Aston!
The Mercedes have been ok over the years but the newer models are not as good as the older ones in terms of build quality, reliability and the fuel economy is just cr*p!
I have tried various other marques over the years, some i have liked, some i really hated! but i have to say the Jag has been one of the better ones. I may have been lucky? I may have received the same experience from having Ford Mondeos?? But wahtever the reason, my previous experiences makes me favour the idea of the F type.
When one becomes available at my local dealer I will be going for a test drive...
And that's the whole point Jamie it's all about what works for you at any given time. Much as I love my DBS sometimes I just can't be arsed and want to tool along in the RR. Fact is I suspect if we had the cash we would have several to suit out mood at any given time. I would love to have the enclosed in the stable. Lots would hate it though.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Well done for asking the question. It's good fun reading the replies
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Well done for asking the question. It's good fun reading the replies
AMDBSNick said:
And that's the whole point Jamie it's all about what works for you at any given time. Much as I love my DBS sometimes I just can't be arsed and want to tool along in the RR. Fact is I suspect if we had the cash we would have several to suit out mood at any given time. I would love to have the enclosed in the stable. Lots would hate it though.
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Well done for asking the question. It's good fun reading the replies
Love the car Nick but that carpet is something special. http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
Well done for asking the question. It's good fun reading the replies
George H said:
On the performance front, there's 3bhp/ton difference between the XKR and the DB9. Hardly an amazing amount. Plus the DB9 has a higher top speed if you care about that sort of thing.
Build quality is debatable. The Jag is probably put together better but having had a look around one id say some of the parts seem inferior quality. I.e designed for mass production so compromised. You only have to see a Jag XK next to an Aston and it really shows which one is mass produced. Have you seen the interior for example? What a dull, dreary place to sit. Could just be any old BMW/Merc/generic car. The Aston is such a nice place to sit, it might not be as ergonomic as the Jag but I know where I'd rather be.
Running costs, yep will be cheaper with the Jag no doubt. By how much I don't know. What's servicing like on an XKR? Same with fuel consumption?
To drive, well I've not driven one but I doubt it's night and day from the Aston. Probably worse on paper due to excess weight.
As for spec, what else do you need than what's in the Aston, either as standard or as an option? Auto headlights/wipers maybe? They've been added to the 2013 model. I really can't think many things I'd like extra over what it has already.
If you're looking at a brand new car then maybe the new Astons are more as they should have been at launch & more competetive. If you're looking second hand with a budget of £35k-£40k which is where a lot of people will be looking, you're comparing a 2005 Vantage 4.3 with a 2009 XKR 5.0 Supercharged. Not much contest on performance or driving dynamics.Build quality is debatable. The Jag is probably put together better but having had a look around one id say some of the parts seem inferior quality. I.e designed for mass production so compromised. You only have to see a Jag XK next to an Aston and it really shows which one is mass produced. Have you seen the interior for example? What a dull, dreary place to sit. Could just be any old BMW/Merc/generic car. The Aston is such a nice place to sit, it might not be as ergonomic as the Jag but I know where I'd rather be.
Running costs, yep will be cheaper with the Jag no doubt. By how much I don't know. What's servicing like on an XKR? Same with fuel consumption?
To drive, well I've not driven one but I doubt it's night and day from the Aston. Probably worse on paper due to excess weight.
As for spec, what else do you need than what's in the Aston, either as standard or as an option? Auto headlights/wipers maybe? They've been added to the 2013 model. I really can't think many things I'd like extra over what it has already.
Talking about mass production, the controls & usability for the sat nav, radio & switchgear i.e. indicators were appalling on the 4.3 Vantage, straight from Volvo, and I'd use these a lot & every time they'd feel cheap. It's a shame that they came this way, lots of people have spent £100's upgrading these themselves but the tel. buttons are tiny and poor to use. The screen can't be read in sunlight. On the 4.7 the console was significantly improved but not the nav.
10,000 mile service intervals & minimum service cost of c. £700 for Vantage made servicing inconveniant & double the price, fuel was worse for less performance.
In terms of spec, XKR has touch screen satnav, DAB radio, adaptive cruise, keyless start, seat ventilation all of which made daily use far more pleasent. I thought the interior was unfussy, modern & clean. Not fair to compare it to Merc which I found to be cheap & plasticky in the SLK55 I tried (& hated).
I'm mindful that this is an Aston forum, I know it's an emotive brand & people love their cars, I still love Astons and will get one in the next few years maybe when 4.7's have dropped a bit more... but it's ridiculous to say that anyone with a Jag would have got an Aston if they could have afforded it. And saying Jag is to Aston what Seiko is to IWC. Some people see beyond the brand & image & prefer a more modern, cheaper, faster, better built & specified car.
Edited by jakesmith on Tuesday 23 October 18:11
Sat back reading this and biting my tongue. If you want tech then Nissan GTR or why not some tricked out m3 or 911. The Aston has a soul - it's understated, rapid (not out right fastest), and has a presence that's not flashy. It's a car that people actually let you out in in traffic. Have driven loads of cars and absolutely love my DB9. Really could not see replacing it with anything other than a DBS or similar. My 2ps
Stonic said:
Sat back reading this and biting my tongue. If you want tech then Nissan GTR or why not some tricked out m3 or 911. The Aston has a soul - it's understated, rapid (not out right fastest), and has a presence that's not flashy. It's a car that people actually let you out in in traffic. Have driven loads of cars and absolutely love my DB9. Really could not see replacing it with anything other than a DBS or similar. My 2ps
^^ this^^ 897sma said:
Stonic said:
Sat back reading this and biting my tongue. If you want tech then Nissan GTR or why not some tricked out m3 or 911. The Aston has a soul - it's understated, rapid (not out right fastest), and has a presence that's not flashy. It's a car that people actually let you out in in traffic. Have driven loads of cars and absolutely love my DB9. Really could not see replacing it with anything other than a DBS or similar. My 2ps
^^ this^^ jakesmith said:
If you're looking at a brand new car then maybe the new Astons are more as they should have been at launch & more competetive. If you're looking second hand with a budget of £35k-£40k which is where a lot of people will be looking, you're comparing a 2005 Vantage 4.3 with a 2009 XKR 5.0 Supercharged. Not much contest on performance or driving dynamics.
Talking about mass production, the controls & usability for the sat nav, radio & switchgear i.e. indicators were appalling on the 4.3 Vantage, straight from Volvo, and I'd use these a lot & every time they'd feel cheap. It's a shame that they came this way, lots of people have spent £100's upgrading these themselves but the tel. buttons are tiny and poor to use. The screen can't be read in sunlight. On the 4.7 the console was significantly improved but not the nav.
10,000 mile service intervals & minimum service cost of c. £700 for Vantage made servicing inconveniant & double the price, fuel was worse for less performance.
In terms of spec, XKR has touch screen satnav, DAB radio, adaptive cruise, keyless start, seat ventilation all of which made daily use far more pleasent. I thought the interior was unfussy, modern & clean. Not fair to compare it to Merc which I found to be cheap & plasticky in the SLK55 I tried (& hated).
I'm mindful that this is an Aston forum, I know it's an emotive brand & people love their cars, I still love Astons and will get one in the next few years maybe when 4.7's have dropped a bit more... but it's ridiculous to say that anyone with a Jag would have got an Aston if they could have afforded it. And saying Jag is to Aston what Seiko is to IWC. Some people see beyond the brand & image & prefer a more modern, cheaper, faster, better built & specified car.
There are a few Aston owners that have owned or own both a Jag and and an Aston....Talking about mass production, the controls & usability for the sat nav, radio & switchgear i.e. indicators were appalling on the 4.3 Vantage, straight from Volvo, and I'd use these a lot & every time they'd feel cheap. It's a shame that they came this way, lots of people have spent £100's upgrading these themselves but the tel. buttons are tiny and poor to use. The screen can't be read in sunlight. On the 4.7 the console was significantly improved but not the nav.
10,000 mile service intervals & minimum service cost of c. £700 for Vantage made servicing inconveniant & double the price, fuel was worse for less performance.
In terms of spec, XKR has touch screen satnav, DAB radio, adaptive cruise, keyless start, seat ventilation all of which made daily use far more pleasent. I thought the interior was unfussy, modern & clean. Not fair to compare it to Merc which I found to be cheap & plasticky in the SLK55 I tried (& hated).
I'm mindful that this is an Aston forum, I know it's an emotive brand & people love their cars, I still love Astons and will get one in the next few years maybe when 4.7's have dropped a bit more... but it's ridiculous to say that anyone with a Jag would have got an Aston if they could have afforded it. And saying Jag is to Aston what Seiko is to IWC. Some people see beyond the brand & image & prefer a more modern, cheaper, faster, better built & specified car.
Edited by jakesmith on Tuesday 23 October 18:11
THe Jag interior details are well appointed but the quality of the leather and upholstery fall short of Aston's, but I do agree that the electronicsare far better integrated. Steering weight and feel are just right in the Aston - Jag's controls feel over assisted but great for GT driving.
Gadgets are just added fluff to me - I want it to sound and drive well and the Aston does it for me. I would take a One-77, V12 vantage and vanquish over the equivalent Jag...
Stonic said:
Sat back reading this and biting my tongue. If you want tech then Nissan GTR or why not some tricked out m3 or 911. The Aston has a soul - it's understated, rapid (not out right fastest), and has a presence that's not flashy. It's a car that people actually let you out in in traffic. Have driven loads of cars and absolutely love my DB9. Really could not see replacing it with anything other than a DBS or similar. My 2ps
You make a good point that is often overlooked, because the GTR is the elephant in the room for anybody who. claims that ( Porsche, Jag etc) are better than an AM based on top speed, tenths of a second acceleration times, technology etc. rarely do they say they would buy the Nissan even though by those parameters it trumps them all!pb1695 said:
10 years ago I set off to the Aston dealer to fulfill a lifelong ambition and buy a DB9
10 years ago would have been 2002, so most likely you were after/looking at/testing the DB7 or Vanquish.. Both great cars too, but very different from the Gaydon cars..Personally, when it came time to buy my fun car, I went with my heart instead of my head. To this day I still get goosebumps every time I look at/drive my DB9. I absolutely love the car, and I'm happy that this time the heart ruled. If I'm fortunate enough to be in the position to make another purchase, it could be the heads turn, and a McLaren MP4-12C..
Still would keep the Aston
Johnfrancis said:
If your going to criticise a car, at least get car the you're talking about correct
Wrong car or wrong year? Maybe it was only 7-8yrs ago for a very early DB9. If 10yrs then yup, DB7. In which case, you should try a DB9 
Either way, hard to take the critique seriously.
Hey I 100% accept that ^ about soul etc and qualities beyond spec, I am in no way advocating a top trumps mentality & can totally see why people love Astons, it's obvious what the appeal is & I will have one myself at some point... the thing I disagree with is that anyone buying a Jag did so as they couldn't afford an Aston, or that Astons are simply better than anything else full stop as the brand is so desirable. I think the back of the F-type is fugly BTW
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff