Are you still after a new V12VR?

[IanV12VR]

I popped into Grange in Exeter to see Lloyd Newbery because he told me he had something there that I might like to see If you are in to bright colours and still hankering to buy a V12VR then they have the car for you.

I think they have obtained the car from AM after a customer order was cancelled/fell through and I have to say that it is absolutely stunning. It is Flame Red with a black interior and roof, CF pack, B&O sound, lightweight seats and I think just about every option box was ticked. Interestingly Lloyd said he had had a serious enquiry from an existing V12V owner who wanted to change to the V12VR (but was after a Silver one) and had no luck in trying to source one for him. Perhaps he might like a Flame Red one

They also had 3 Vanquish in the showroom - Black, MF White with a red interior and Volcano Red - which I had a chance to have a close look at so all in all a great visit - and then I went Christmas shopping

Only remembered after I left that I should have taken a picture or two so apologies for that - if your interested just get in touch with Lloyd and I am sure he can provide them for you.

[Jockman]

Lloyd's a nice bloke, but what you will find as the biggest obstacle to purchase this model is the piss-take on the gap to upgrade from a V12V or a V8VSR to a new V12VR.

Many on this forum have been deterred by such a daft situation.

Indeed, despite having 20 Vanquish pre-ordered, Wilmslow have only sold 1 V12VR - to Jonby

[hornbaek]

Jockman - I couldn't agree more on your comment regarding the gap between trading in the V12V for a V12VR. It is the nearest to financial suicide one can do and simply makes no sense at all. You could almost buy a Porsche 991 cabrio for the difference AND keep the V12V.

[Mr Aston Martin]

Jockman said:

Lloyd's a nice bloke, but what you will find as the biggest obstacle to purchase this model is the piss-take on the gap to upgrade from a V12V or a V8VSR to a new V12VR.

Many on this forum have been deterred by such a daft situation.

Indeed, despite having 20 Vanquish pre-ordered, Wilmslow have only sold 1 V12VR - to Jonby

Is that because the Vanquish has manufacturer ' support or simply that a new Vanquish owner is more likely to eat the residual as they are acquiring a new model?

Or or they just like double cream? A bit richer and thicker?

Goodness I'm bored.

[Jockman]

To be fair, the V12VR is a limited edition and so they are doing their darndest to make it stay limited.

I also share Jonby's enthusiasm for what will no doubt be a fabulous car - especially when finding out about the leather cover for his iphone !!!

Shame that soooo many people would have looked at this upgrade seriously if AM had adopted a more benign strategy.

Ach well, c'est la vie

[IanV12VR]

Jockman said:

To be fair, the V12VR is a limited edition and so they are doing their darndest to make it stay limited.

I also share Jonby's enthusiasm for what will no doubt be a fabulous car - especially when finding out about the leather cover for his iphone !!!

Shame that soooo many people would have looked at this upgrade seriously if AM had adopted a more benign strategy.

Ach well, c'est la vie

I think that is the real point in that they are only building 100 of them so it means that the dealers can afford to play hardball on pricing and trade in values - which they probably cannot do on any other model in the range. Given the lead in time from ordering to buying if what you were being offered by the dealer wasn't what you were looking for you could have sold privately if you thought you get could get better value - you had enough time to do so.

From what I understand the only chance you will get to buy one of these now will be a cancelled order, such as this one, and even then you will miss out on choosing your own spec. Quite a few of the people I have spoken to intend their cars to be keepers and therefore the numbers becoming available 'second hand' will be pretty limited I think. No idea what depreciation will be but as I will be keeping mine not too concerned by that. I thought Hornbaeks view that it was 'financial suicide to go from a V12V to a V12VR' somewhat dramatic but I guess time will tell.

Oh, and I can confirm that despite only having done a few hundred miles in mine, nearly all with the roof down, it is a fabulous car which I think in time will be considered a classic amongst Astons - let alone other sports cars. I am even getting used to t being a manual

[Cockernee]

IanV12VR said:

Jockman said:

To be fair, the V12VR is a limited edition and so they are doing their darndest to make it stay limited.

I also share Jonby's enthusiasm for what will no doubt be a fabulous car - especially when finding out about the leather cover for his iphone !!!

Shame that soooo many people would have looked at this upgrade seriously if AM had adopted a more benign strategy.

Ach well, c'est la vie

I think that is the real point in that they are only building 100 of them so it means that the dealers can afford to play hardball on pricing and trade in values - which they probably cannot do on any other model in the range. Given the lead in time from ordering to buying if what you were being offered by the dealer wasn't what you were looking for you could have sold privately if you thought you get could get better value - you had enough time to do so.

From what I understand the only chance you will get to buy one of these now will be a cancelled order, such as this one, and even then you will miss out on choosing your own spec. Quite a few of the people I have spoken to intend their cars to be keepers and therefore the numbers becoming available 'second hand' will be pretty limited I think. No idea what depreciation will be but as I will be keeping mine not too concerned by that. I thought Hornbaeks view that it was 'financial suicide to go from a V12V to a V12VR' somewhat dramatic but I guess time will tell.

Oh, and I can confirm that despite only having done a few hundred miles in mine, nearly all with the roof down, it is a fabulous car which I think in time will be considered a classic amongst Astons - let alone other sports cars. I am even getting used to t being a manual

Even though it is very limited in numbers, I cannot see it being an investor car as it will be driven (rightly so) and therefore will devalue. They will obviously hold better than a V12V in value due to the rarity of them, but I did not buy one for the very reason stated. £75K plus my 09 V12V....... I am sadly not that wealthy

Great car though, congrats and look forward to seeing it sometime soon

[silverspeed]

hornbaek said:

Jockman - I couldn't agree more on your comment regarding the gap between trading in the V12V for a V12VR. It is the nearest to financial suicide one can do and simply makes no sense at all. You could almost buy a Porsche 991 cabrio for the difference AND keep the V12V.

Wasn't financial suicide for me - got a fair price on my V12V and enjoyed immensely the buying experience of speccing the car ,seeing it built and now driving one of only 101 manual Aston Martin V12 Vantage Roadsters in the world. Financial suicide for me was buying shares in Lloyds Bank!!!!

[mikey k]

Not sure that colour is right?
Fire Red?
Flame Orange?

[IanV12VR]

mikey k said:

Not sure that colour is right?
Fire Red?
Flame Orange?

Hmm! Given the choice of those two I would go with Flame Orange. It is the same colour as the V12V they had at Gaydon back in July which I think was that colour.

[mikey k]

Shame - Fire Red I like Flame Orange not so much

[Robbo66]

I would have the coupe over the VR , even if they were the same money, personally.

As for buying a new one...cannot possibly fathom the decision to do so. The limited numbers ?....yes...I'm sure.

Lines are spoilt along with a the overall masculine appeal of the coupe. Bit Wilmslow for me, but only my opinion.

[hornbaek]

silverspeed said:

Wasn't financial suicide for me - got a fair price on my V12V and enjoyed immensely the buying experience of speccing the car ,seeing it built and now driving one of only 101 manual Aston Martin V12 Vantage Roadsters in the world. Financial suicide for me was buying shares in Lloyds Bank!!!!

You are right maybe I am a bit dramatic but at the end of the day it is a 75k payment for chopping the roof off. In terms of residuals it is difficult to say because it is such a niche car. For those of us in the know, it is a no-brainer to pay 75-90 for a 2-3 year old V12V but there are still 25 in the classifieds. 150k for a roofless version might sound ok for us V12 owners but for somebody new to the V12V experience it is still a hefty price to pay for a manual "old school" sports car. Still a fabulous car so congratulations to all the 101 that took the plunge.

[Guycord]

I think in 3 years time the V12VR will have lost as much % as a 3yr-old V12V has now. 100 units or 1000 will make no difference.

I predict the V12VR will look very dated in 2016 whereas the V12V Coupe will be less so.

[Jockman]

Guycord said:

...I predict the V12VR will look very dated in 2016 whereas the V12V Coupe will be less so.

Nice one Guy.

Do you do lottery numbers too?? I could do with getting the kids some prezzies, you see. Any help would be much appreciated

[Guycord]

Jockman said:

I could do with getting the kids some prezzies, you see. Any help would be much appreciated

Jockman....you just need to stop being so tight.

[jonby]

I can only speak definitively for myself of course, but I don't think most owners have bought this car because it's a good investment. It's been bought by many as a keeper, as a car to put miles on, as a last of an era car, as an opportunity to spec a truly special car from scratch (which can't be justified on a coupe by most because of the discounts on pre-registered & low miles cars, but which is unavoidable on V12VR with the exception of the vehicle starting this thread). I've thoroughly enjoyed the process of doing this from scratch and assumed it is something I might never have another opportunity of doing

I was faced with the same difficult decision re: cost to change which cannot be justified rationally. But who cares ? Not the buyers. Who else matters in this respect ? We (V12VR owners) are very happy with our choice. The miles likely to be put on these cars is correctly identified as not helping residuals. Yes market evidence also suggests that the depreciation curve will be worse than say a Ferrari or Porsche built in similarly limited numbers. But of course if hardly any appear on the 2nd hand market, firstly it will help values stay strong (whatever they are, they have to be higher than if there are lots on the market) and secondly, if you aren't selling, it doesn't really matter what the value is

I am effectively locked in, because I won't be able to afford changing car for some while unless I took a big backwards step carwise. But what a car to be locked in to ! I hope my next sports car purchase is when funds have recovered to allow me to buy an additional car, not a replacement one. That will take a long time though ! I'm quite happy with the scenario

And of course if the tie in with AMG goes through as predicted into the model range, then however good the new cars are going forward, this will be a last of an era car on even more levels, something I'm quite happy with for a number of reasons, including it's help with residuals. It may well drop as suggested over 3 yrs, I'm quite prepared for that. But not only do I think over 5-7 yrs the pattern will then look more attractive on V12VR than most (purely speculation of course). That's not me contradicting myself - the car has been bought to enjoy, not as an investment. But if it holds it's value mid-long term, that's an added bonus.

I think there is one major point being missed here. This car is being compared as a purchase to buying V12V coupe as a pre-registered or low miles vehicle. In recent years, if you buy almost any Aston, with the exception of the odd time there is additional support, there is a huge premium to spec one up from scratch. It is simply the price you have to pay. You then lose a huge amount compared to a pre-registered model because 6 months down the line, owner number two doesn't care if the first owner paid a full price to buy it as a personally specced car or a discounted price to buy it as a pre-registered or unregistered car.As I say, it's the price you have to pay to spec from scratch - I couldn't justify it on my last two cars but had no choice on V12VR - that fact has to be taken into account

As for producing more, well then the price would have to be discounted to make them sell. But if V12V (R or coupe) is to be discontinued soon as some expect, then they wouldn't have had chance to sell many more than 101 in the timescale available and yet the prices would have been lower. I wouldn't have paid this price for a car with an indefinite build number. So overall,it's a sound strategy from my perspective

[jonby]

hornbaek said:

Jockman - I couldn't agree more on your comment regarding the gap between trading in the V12V for a V12VR. It is the nearest to financial suicide one can do and simply makes no sense at all. You could almost buy a Porsche 991 cabrio for the difference AND keep the V12V.

yes but I want an exciting drop top Aston V12 to tour in - that suggestion doesn't meet my requirements

[jonby]

Mr Aston Martin said:

Jockman said:

Lloyd's a nice bloke, but what you will find as the biggest obstacle to purchase this model is the piss-take on the gap to upgrade from a V12V or a V8VSR to a new V12VR.

Many on this forum have been deterred by such a daft situation.

Indeed, despite having 20 Vanquish pre-ordered, Wilmslow have only sold 1 V12VR - to Jonby

Is that because the Vanquish has manufacturer ' support or simply that a new Vanquish owner is more likely to eat the residual as they are acquiring a new model?

Or or they just like double cream? A bit richer and thicker?

Goodness I'm bored.

to date, to my knowledge, all vanquish are ordered new from the factory, specced by customers from scratch, with no discount. Some have had their name down for 12 months or more. As the first demo models hit the showroom around now and in a few months start to be sold, that situation may change. RIght now, there is a 6 month + waiting list if you order a new vanquish

[Robbo66]

jonby said:

I was faced with the same difficult decision re: cost to change which cannot be justified rationally. But who cares ? Not the buyers. Who else matters in this respect ? We (V12VR owners) are very happy with our choice.

And that's really the point, and one that can't be argued. You 'don't care', and as that's the case, all other financial options/considerations etc are irrelevant.