Discussion
Zod said:
We did also talk about DCTs. They didn't feel they were right for the Vanquish (they really need to get the 8 speed ZF though), but were interested in them for future Vantages.
I like automated manuals (I even like BMW's SMG boxes) and DCTs, but I am very much enjoying a "proper" manual box in teh V12V.
I just got a new Boxster with PDK for Mrs Steve and I have to say it is outstanding. Silky smooth and allows quick changes. The auto mode is better IMHO than her Z4 with slush box. I know it's horses for courses, but AM, if they ae going to sell cars with automated boxes need to develop a dual plate version to keep pace with rivals. I like automated manuals (I even like BMW's SMG boxes) and DCTs, but I am very much enjoying a "proper" manual box in teh V12V.
I personally would forgo the manual for such a box in any new AM I were to order.
I, for one, hope they never offer a V12V with 2 pedals. That will be the "slippery slope" to the end of all manual gearboxes. Once it becomes an option, all dealers in the US will order them spec'd that way and you will only be able to get a true manual as a special order. Fast-forward a couple of years, and Aston will say that the majority of cars they sell have two pedals and it is no longer viable to offer the manual. It will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
yeti said:
jonby said:
My thoughts are (only very partially) based on the fact that vanquish engine has only been produced with 2 pedals and that's the engine I see going in a V12 Vantage replacement
My info also says V12 Vantage with 310quish engine and ZF 8 speed transmission. Basically an astonomically expensive version of the F-Type I suppose 
jonby said:
BTW, there has been a mention somewhere of a Vantage S with a manual box, I think I read it on a site where an American buyer had seen one in his local dealer, or possibly ordered one
my dealer has confirmed that whilst it has never been the subject of a product bulletin and I think even the website doesn't show it as an option on the S, they have noticed that you can now order one on the system i.e. a vantage S with the 6 speed 3 pedal manual - one assumes it's cheaper than the 3 pedal but I didn't ask and hey, who knows with AM ! :-)
There is actually a physical car for sale in the US with a manual box.my dealer has confirmed that whilst it has never been the subject of a product bulletin and I think even the website doesn't show it as an option on the S, they have noticed that you can now order one on the system i.e. a vantage S with the 6 speed 3 pedal manual - one assumes it's cheaper than the 3 pedal but I didn't ask and hey, who knows with AM ! :-)
KarlFranz said:
I, for one, hope they never offer a V12V with 2 pedals. That will be the "slippery slope" to the end of all manual gearboxes. Once it becomes an option, all dealers in the US will order them spec'd that way and you will only be able to get a true manual as a special order. Fast-forward a couple of years, and Aston will say that the majority of cars they sell have two pedals and it is no longer viable to offer the manual. It will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I couldn't agree more with everything you've said. But I can still see it happening....that is, if they don't make the decision never to even offer 3 pedals on the next gen v12vI happened to be at the factory on Friday and saw V8V S on the line with manual boxes, it would appear that ASM II is to be an option. Clearly the factory recognise the market for a manual Vantage; we were told the the S is only about 20% of the Vantage build and the other thing that struck us was the very limited colours on the line, including the Vanquish. Lots of Silver, in various shades, some black, a few white and a spattering of reds. Fell in love with a Volcano Red Vanquish. V12V R production now finished. We were also told the Q dept is very busy - that must be good news I guess.
callevascm said:
I happened to be at the factory on Friday and saw V8V S on the line with manual boxes, it would appear that ASM II is to be an option. Clearly the factory recognise the market for a manual Vantage; we were told the the S is only about 20% of the Vantage build and the other thing that struck us was the very limited colours on the line, including the Vanquish. Lots of Silver, in various shades, some black, a few white and a spattering of reds. Fell in love with a Volcano Red Vanquish. V12V R production now finished. We were also told the Q dept is very busy - that must be good news I guess.
did you see any v12v coupes on the line out of interest ?dealers have an embargo on rapide info but car magazine is now public..................new rapide has 550 bhp
one assumes in reality, it's exactly the same engine as vanquish, with differently stated figures, or artificially very very marginally tinkered with - torque remains the same
one assumes in reality, it's exactly the same engine as vanquish, with differently stated figures, or artificially very very marginally tinkered with - torque remains the same
jonby said:
dealers have an embargo on rapide info but car magazine is now public..................new rapide has 550 bhp
one assumes in reality, it's exactly the same engine as vanquish, with differently stated figures, or artificially very very marginally tinkered with - torque remains the same
Yep I'd guess they dropped a valved intake air box or just detuned it. one assumes in reality, it's exactly the same engine as vanquish, with differently stated figures, or artificially very very marginally tinkered with - torque remains the same
mikey k said:
jonby said:
dealers have an embargo on rapide info but car magazine is now public..................new rapide has 550 bhp
one assumes in reality, it's exactly the same engine as vanquish, with differently stated figures, or artificially very very marginally tinkered with - torque remains the same
Yep I'd guess they dropped a valved intake air box or just detuned it. one assumes in reality, it's exactly the same engine as vanquish, with differently stated figures, or artificially very very marginally tinkered with - torque remains the same
My guess is the quoted DB9 figures are a little conservative and the quoted vanquish figures a touch bullish (obviously engines have a range of power from one to the next so the manufacturer has a range to choose from when quoting outputs - some will be conservative, some won't)
They have to 'create' a gap between db9 & vanquish power as otherwise, it makes selling a vanquish at almost twice the price for a new set of clothes somewhat difficult. I'm not saying there isn't a power difference, just that it's possibly not as large as the published figures suggest
Likewise, rapide may have identical figures to vanquish in the real world. Of course it doesn't need to be 'seen' as having 'only' 510bhp in the way DB9 does as it's not a direct competitor - the 15hp stated difference between vanquish & rapide however does allow vanquish, the flagship model, to have the flagship power rating
Don't forget the quoted figures are only the peaks
Manufacturers can make all sorts of tweaks (timing, fueling, header configuration, intake manifold set up, air intake set up etc)
To change the curves
It's actually quite easy to deliver similar peak power and very different peak torque
The curves will also be very different
I know how BR test engines and having heard about AM's sign off procedures from various factory peps
I doubt the quoted numbers are "massaged" they are just very different "tunes" done so to ensure enough difference between models
Manufacturers can make all sorts of tweaks (timing, fueling, header configuration, intake manifold set up, air intake set up etc)
To change the curves
It's actually quite easy to deliver similar peak power and very different peak torque
The curves will also be very different
I know how BR test engines and having heard about AM's sign off procedures from various factory peps
I doubt the quoted numbers are "massaged" they are just very different "tunes" done so to ensure enough difference between models
Cockernee said:
If I am honest I prefer automated manual for a number of reasons
2. It feels more special than a gear lever. I have one of those in my Turbo Diesel Audi.
Surely it's only a matter of time before the manual will be dead and buried in also-ran cars.2. It feels more special than a gear lever. I have one of those in my Turbo Diesel Audi.
Then the manual in your vantage will feel special.
peterr96 said:
Cockernee said:
If I am honest I prefer automated manual for a number of reasons
2. It feels more special than a gear lever. I have one of those in my Turbo Diesel Audi.
Surely it's only a matter of time before the manual will be dead and buried in also-ran cars.2. It feels more special than a gear lever. I have one of those in my Turbo Diesel Audi.
Then the manual in your vantage will feel special.
When I then bought my first Aston, to run alongside the Audi, it had SS, as did my 2nd Aston that replaced the first
It felt a little odd at times to have manual in the DD and 'auto' in the 2nd (sports) car
Now my DD is an Audi A7 with auto (it has flappies, that I have NEVER used) and a manual box in my only 2nd car, the V12VR
To me, this latest combination makes much more sense and using the manual in the V12VR feels 'special', despite being a slower gearchange and antiquated technology compared to what's available in the market
I of course can see the merits in a flappy paddle (much easier to concentrate on the other stuff than with a manual and of course it's faster) but especially assuming said car is to be driven on the road (i.e. not just track), manual is what I would choose, unless it was a 'tech fest' car like the 12C Mclaren or GT-R. Lets not forget that no-one buys an Aston to be the fastest !
jonby said:
peterr96 said:
Cockernee said:
If I am honest I prefer automated manual for a number of reasons
2. It feels more special than a gear lever. I have one of those in my Turbo Diesel Audi.
Surely it's only a matter of time before the manual will be dead and buried in also-ran cars.2. It feels more special than a gear lever. I have one of those in my Turbo Diesel Audi.
Then the manual in your vantage will feel special.
When I then bought my first Aston, to run alongside the Audi, it had SS, as did my 2nd Aston that replaced the first
It felt a little odd at times to have manual in the DD and 'auto' in the 2nd (sports) car
Now my DD is an Audi A7 with auto (it has flappies, that I have NEVER used) and a manual box in my only 2nd car, the V12VR
To me, this latest combination makes much more sense and using the manual in the V12VR feels 'special', despite being a slower gearchange and antiquated technology compared to what's available in the market
I of course can see the merits in a flappy paddle (much easier to concentrate on the other stuff than with a manual and of course it's faster) but especially assuming said car is to be driven on the road (i.e. not just track), manual is what I would choose, unless it was a 'tech fest' car like the 12C Mclaren or GT-R. Lets not forget that no-one buys an Aston to be the fastest !
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