Manual vs Auto on the big GT

[yeti]

Gibberish said:

The TT2 suits the DB9 ‘Sports GT’ character perfectly. I would not want it to be a manual.

I supoose my DB9 is slightly more 'sports' than the original conception of the Volante now. The manual box transforms it into another level of car. I suppose I was after a V12VR before they were even invented!

[Jockman]

Gibberish said:

The TT2 suits the DB9 ‘Sports GT’ character perfectly. I would not want it to be a manual.

Conventional manuals are best suited to small light weight ‘out and out’ sports cars.

I use the flappy paddles when the mood takes (and that’s quite often.)

Probably a good way of looking at it Chris - every company car I have is a manual, yet I don't want my DB9 to be one.

Glad it makes sense to someone else

[jonby]

yeti said:

Gibberish said:

The TT2 suits the DB9 ‘Sports GT’ character perfectly. I would not want it to be a manual.

I supoose my DB9 is slightly more 'sports' than the original conception of the Volante now. The manual box transforms it into another level of car. I suppose I was after a V12VR before they were even invented!

just slightly :-)

[jonby]

Jockman said:

Gibberish said:

The TT2 suits the DB9 ‘Sports GT’ character perfectly. I would not want it to be a manual.

Conventional manuals are best suited to small light weight ‘out and out’ sports cars.

I use the flappy paddles when the mood takes (and that’s quite often.)

Probably a good way of looking at it Chris - every company car I have is a manual, yet I don't want my DB9 to be one.

Glad it makes sense to someone else

I think most people could understand that

The problem as I see it though is now all the cars in the range other than Vantage are limited to TT only, it means all the cars can only be bought with one purpose/character

But to me, from back to back test drives, I found DBS with the two different gearboxes was almost like driving two different cars. I see more difference (to drive) between a manual and an auto DBS than I do between the current DB9 and current Vanquish, both with the same gearbox

A choice of gearbox, or a gearbox which allows for more distinctly different characters depending how you use the box (e.g. DCT), would solve that problem. Without that, it limits the market for the current cars in the range

[yeti]

Indeed; the cars could be sold as a DB9 GT (for example) with TT2 or (TT3 - 8spd ZF eventually) and lots of toys, and then DB9S which is harder, faster, louder, alcantara instead of leather, a bit more carbon tat and comes with our beloved Graziano manual box.

This was >almost< what they did with DB9/DBS excpet that both could be bought with TT2 or manual and the DBS was 60 grand more.

[jonby]

yeti said:

Indeed; the cars could be sold as a DB9 GT (for example) with TT2 or (TT3 - 8spd ZF eventually) and lots of toys, and then DB9S which is harder, faster, louder, alcantara instead of leather, a bit more carbon tat and comes with our beloved Graziano manual box.

This was >almost< what they did with DB9/DBS excpet that both could be bought with TT2 or manual and the DBS was 60 grand more.

that would solve a second problem - now the initial fuss over new vanquish has died down, the premium over current/new DB9 for fairly similar cars can't be justified. They drive similarly and whilst vanquish is a newer shape with a newer interior (the latter of which, centre console aside, I don't like as much as the predecessor, especially the seats & door cards and whilst the centre console looks better, it's not really any different in it's functionality) I wouldn't have thought they drive that differently to each other, especially both with TT

with the same torque, gearbox, brakes and chassis and marginal real world differences in power, it really doesn't make sense for AM to offer both cars.....I'm not saying I don't like the shape of new vanquish, but a lot of the hype around it is marketing BS, for instance the 'cloaked in carbon' or full carbon body - precisely how much weight does it save ? A few 10s of kilos on a still heavy car ? One big V12 2+2 GT with auto box only is more than enough - bite the bullet and stop messing around Gaydon !!!!

[cardigankid]

jonby said:

But to me, from back to back test drives, I found DBS with the two different gearboxes was almost like driving two different cars. I see more difference (to drive) between a manual and an auto DBS than I do between the current DB9 and current Vanquish, both with the same gearbox

I take it that you found the manual better. I certainly hope so.

[bananarob]

jonby said:

yeti said:

Indeed; the cars could be sold as a DB9 GT (for example) with TT2 or (TT3 - 8spd ZF eventually) and lots of toys, and then DB9S which is harder, faster, louder, alcantara instead of leather, a bit more carbon tat and comes with our beloved Graziano manual box.

This was >almost< what they did with DB9/DBS excpet that both could be bought with TT2 or manual and the DBS was 60 grand more.

that would solve a second problem - now the initial fuss over new vanquish has died down, the premium over current/new DB9 for fairly similar cars can't be justified. They drive similarly and whilst vanquish is a newer shape with a newer interior (the latter of which, centre console aside, I don't like as much as the predecessor, especially the seats & door cards and whilst the centre console looks better, it's not really any different in it's functionality) I wouldn't have thought they drive that differently to each other, especially both with TT

with the same torque, gearbox, brakes and chassis and marginal real world differences in power, it really doesn't make sense for AM to offer both cars.....I'm not saying I don't like the shape of new vanquish, but a lot of the hype around it is marketing BS, for instance the 'cloaked in carbon' or full carbon body - precisely how much weight does it save ? A few 10s of kilos on a still heavy car ? One big V12 2+2 GT with auto box only is more than enough - bite the bullet and stop messing around Gaydon !!!!

Go spend a couple of hours in both back to back, then repost. You're talking bks mate

[jonby]

bananarob said:

jonby said:

yeti said:

Indeed; the cars could be sold as a DB9 GT (for example) with TT2 or (TT3 - 8spd ZF eventually) and lots of toys, and then DB9S which is harder, faster, louder, alcantara instead of leather, a bit more carbon tat and comes with our beloved Graziano manual box.

This was >almost< what they did with DB9/DBS excpet that both could be bought with TT2 or manual and the DBS was 60 grand more.

that would solve a second problem - now the initial fuss over new vanquish has died down, the premium over current/new DB9 for fairly similar cars can't be justified. They drive similarly and whilst vanquish is a newer shape with a newer interior (the latter of which, centre console aside, I don't like as much as the predecessor, especially the seats & door cards and whilst the centre console looks better, it's not really any different in it's functionality) I wouldn't have thought they drive that differently to each other, especially both with TT

with the same torque, gearbox, brakes and chassis and marginal real world differences in power, it really doesn't make sense for AM to offer both cars.....I'm not saying I don't like the shape of new vanquish, but a lot of the hype around it is marketing BS, for instance the 'cloaked in carbon' or full carbon body - precisely how much weight does it save ? A few 10s of kilos on a still heavy car ? One big V12 2+2 GT with auto box only is more than enough - bite the bullet and stop messing around Gaydon !!!!

Go spend a couple of hours in both back to back, then repost. You're talking bks mate

I'm not saying that the vanquish isn't better to drive than DB9. But I've driven DBS and new Vanquish and I guess new DB9 is a little better to drive than DBS. I maintain that for me, they are very similar in spirit and execution - AM have such a limited range, as Yeti says, it's a great shame they don't go in slightly different directions - as it is, it's very difficult to justify the 70k premium over the real world 124k you can buy a brand new 'new'' DB9 for - if it offered a different type of driving experience, it would make more sense

[jonby]

cardigankid said:

jonby said:

But to me, from back to back test drives, I found DBS with the two different gearboxes was almost like driving two different cars. I see more difference (to drive) between a manual and an auto DBS than I do between the current DB9 and current Vanquish, both with the same gearbox

I take it that you found the manual better. I certainly hope so.

for me, yes. Much more involving. But if I was buying a DBS as my DD, particularly if I had a more hard core second car, I see why some prefer it. To me, especially with the regular seats, the TT didn't tempt me to drive sufficiently differently to a highly capable top end german sports saloon - the manual gearbox made all the difference and just excited me. Like I say, personal preference though - some DBS owners I respect most highly reckon TT & DBS V12 are perfectly suited

[Zod]

IanV12VR said:

When I had a test drive of the new Virage when it came out the AM Driver was really surprised that I drove the TT box only using the flappy paddles. I hated it in auto mode and it seemed the natural thing to do and usually kept it in sport mode to get what I believed were quicker shifts and the car makes a much better noise. He said that in all the test drives he had done I was only the second customer who had immediately used the paddles. Perhaps it was because I had come from SS Vantages prior to my 9? Just getting used to the manual on the V12VR and have to say I love it - although do still find myself trying to change gear using the non existent paddles

Funny. I only ever drive TT2 Astons using the paddles. It seems to work better and I'm used to paddles from SMG BMW M cars. On the other hand, my wife's X5 has paddles and I never, ever use them. It also has the ZF 8 speed box, which is fantastic.

[Speedraser]

jonby said:

There's way too much confusion between many buyers about the different types of two pedal systems - to say 'I prefer manuals' is fine but to suggest, as one poster has, that 'all 2 pedal systems are equally boring' is a comment I find astonishing. I'm not disagreeing with the poster - patently if he has tried all 3 types on a meaningful test drive (or ownership experience) he is entitled to hold that view and no-one is in a position to argue with someone's informed personal opinion

I didn't write that, but I agreed with it. To clarify: I concede that not all paddle 'boxes are "equally boring," but for me, even the best/most sporting/most responsive paddle 'boxes are completely boring compared to a true manual. Auto mode holds less than zero interest to me, so my personal assessment is based on using the paddles. Other than driving in absolute maximum attack mode, which can rarely be done on the road, I find all paddle systems utterly boring. I enjoy using a true manual 'box and for me, in a car that is in any way an enthusiast's car, a manual 'box is an essential part of the experience.

I absolutely love my V8V, but the new DB9 is very appealing. However, a trade is completely out of the question because a manual is not offered. That would not change if a DCT were available, but it might if a manual were.

[jonby]

Speedraser said:

jonby said:

There's way too much confusion between many buyers about the different types of two pedal systems - to say 'I prefer manuals' is fine but to suggest, as one poster has, that 'all 2 pedal systems are equally boring' is a comment I find astonishing. I'm not disagreeing with the poster - patently if he has tried all 3 types on a meaningful test drive (or ownership experience) he is entitled to hold that view and no-one is in a position to argue with someone's informed personal opinion

I didn't write that, but I agreed with it. To clarify: I concede that not all paddle 'boxes are "equally boring," but for me, even the best/most sporting/most responsive paddle 'boxes are completely boring compared to a true manual. Auto mode holds less than zero interest to me, so my personal assessment is based on using the paddles. Other than driving in absolute maximum attack mode, which can rarely be done on the road, I find all paddle systems utterly boring. I enjoy using a true manual 'box and for me, in a car that is in any way an enthusiast's car, a manual 'box is an essential part of the experience.

I absolutely love my V8V, but the new DB9 is very appealing. However, a trade is completely out of the question because a manual is not offered. That would not change if a DCT were available, but it might if a manual were.

I think we all agree a DB9 with TT is a completely different driving proposition to a V8V with 3 pedals ! Of course sportshift is neither DCT or TT/auto

I'd argue that a sportshift V8V, which has the same gearbox & ratios as a manual V8V and which forces you to shift up & down to avoid red lining/stalling (there is no auto shifting in sportshift) and if never used in auto mode (which I never did) and of course which requires an element of matching engine revs to gear shifts is closer in spirit/driving feel to the manual V8V than a TT DB9

[mikey k]

jonby said:

I'd argue that a sportshift V8V, which has the same gearbox & ratios as a manual V8V and which forces you to shift up & down to avoid red lining/stalling (there is no auto shifting in sportshift) and if never used in auto mode (which I never did) and of course which requires an element of matching engine revs to gear shifts is closer in spirit/driving feel to the manual V8V than a TT DB9

ASM2 has different ratios to the 6MT and ASM1
ASM1 & ASM2 will down shift to prevent a stall, they will not upshift at the red line though.

[jonby]

mikey k said:

jonby said:

I'd argue that a sportshift V8V, which has the same gearbox & ratios as a manual V8V and which forces you to shift up & down to avoid red lining/stalling (there is no auto shifting in sportshift) and if never used in auto mode (which I never did) and of course which requires an element of matching engine revs to gear shifts is closer in spirit/driving feel to the manual V8V than a TT DB9

ASM2 has different ratios to the 6MT and ASM1
ASM1 & ASM2 will down shift to prevent a stall, they will not upshift at the red line though.

I must be getting old ! I recalled ASM1 as not shifting down and I owned a car with it.....losing my marbles ! ASM2 has different ratios of course as it's 7 speed whereas I assume the manual in the V8 is still a 6 speed but IIRC, ASM1 & 6MT are the literally same box with the same ratios

[mikey k]

jonby said:

mikey k said:

jonby said:

I'd argue that a sportshift V8V, which has the same gearbox & ratios as a manual V8V and which forces you to shift up & down to avoid red lining/stalling (there is no auto shifting in sportshift) and if never used in auto mode (which I never did) and of course which requires an element of matching engine revs to gear shifts is closer in spirit/driving feel to the manual V8V than a TT DB9

ASM2 has different ratios to the 6MT and ASM1
ASM1 & ASM2 will down shift to prevent a stall, they will not upshift at the red line though.

I must be getting old ! I recalled ASM1 as not shifting down and I owned a car with it.....losing my marbles ! ASM2 has different ratios of course as it's 7 speed whereas I assume the manual in the V8 is still a 6 speed but IIRC, ASM1 & 6MT are the literally same box with the same ratios

I only know because both mine shifted down to prevent stalls.
Yep ASM1=6MT with a robot attached
ASM2 does have 7 forward but reverse is also lower geared than ASM1 which is MUCH better