V12 Vantage S

[Bravo73]

outofstepuk said:

AM8 said:

Not familiar with those. What are they? Exhaust, cat and filter? Or also ECU? Not based in UK but I guess I could drive up there this summer if it is really worth it? What are the gains and differences with other houses?

Go onto the sticky thread at the top and that's got everything you could want to know about Bamford Rose. They look after my car, so I'm a big fan of their work.

Fair to say threads can often get taken over by BR talk though, so best to direct you there!

As well as that, if you can get hold of the recently released edition of 'Vantage' magazine, there is a write up of a 'BR'd' Vantage S that is very well known around these parts:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Also: https://dennis.subscribeonline.co.uk/home/vantage?...

Edited by Bravo73 on Tuesday 4th June 14:18

[jonby]

Jon39 said:

jonby said:

.... registration V12VSR was still available - it is. Well it was. Just bought it -

Well done.

Just need to get your order in now Jonby. You will be the first PHer, with the fastest ever Aston Martin production car.

I don't think there's a cat in hells chance of that ! :-)

Having spent so much time & money on speccing my V12VR just so, including luggage (and watch strap !), to go through that exercise just 1 or 2 yrs later would cost most likely at least 75k, maybe more to change - it just ain't happening ! Not new anyway

If it's not a ltd ed and prices drop after a yr or so, I may consider it - I'm just hedging my bets & having a bit of fun with the plate- I do this kind of thing every so often and I'm never greedy - assuming I don't buy a V12VSR, if I make a few hundred pounds selling the plate, I'm happy - most people advertise this sort of plate for '000s and surprise surprise, never get a buyer.....

The S really does look exceptional but they will keep replacing with better ones - I can't afford to keep buying new aston martins. I did think if I could afford it, maybe buy a V12VS Coupe in a yr or 2 to sit alongside my V12VR but the reality is, if I had a spare 150k, I could buy a flappy paddle coupe which is even faster and better handling, i.e. 12C or 458, slightly used, for less than a V12VS coupe. Yes it's not the same as an aston but I already have one of those :-)

[Alwin]

jonby said:

The S really does look exceptional but they will keep replacing with better ones - I can't afford to keep buying new aston martins. I did think if I could afford it, maybe buy a V12VS Coupe in a yr or 2 to sit alongside my V12VR but the reality is, if I had a spare 150k, I could buy a flappy paddle coupe which is even faster and better handling, i.e. 12C or 458, slightly used, for less than a V12VS coupe. Yes it's not the same as an aston but I already have one of those :-)

Exactly my feeling.
I'll skip this one, for now... Maybe get a 991 Turbo S in the meantime, until Aston Martin figures out where they're going...

Tip: get that used 458, it rocks.

[Beefmeister]

In my eyes, the V12V had a genuine USP - a big V12 attached to a manual gearbox. This 'S' loses that USP and places it slap-bang in a market full of 550+bhp flappy paddle coupes, where I hate to say it will fall short when viewed subjectively.

Of course it's still an Aston, and I would take it over many others that it is now against, but I'm not sure the buying public will.

If it costs c.£150,000, does it stack up against a 12C at only £20k more?

[jonby]

Beefmeister said:

In my eyes, the V12V had a genuine USP - a big V12 attached to a manual gearbox. This 'S' loses that USP and places it slap-bang in a market full of 550+bhp flappy paddle coupes, where I hate to say it will fall short when viewed subjectively.

Of course it's still an Aston, and I would take it over many others that it is now against, but I'm not sure the buying public will.

If it costs c.£150,000, does it stack up against a 12C at only £20k more?

typical examples of 12C & 458 coupes at £150k, with low miles, a yr or 2 old. 458s are at least a yr older for the same money as an equivalent 12C, however they come with 7 yrs free servicing !

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...

I suspect a similarly specced V12VS is likely to cost this kind of amount in the 'real world' as a brand new, dealer spec model, though I'm guessing - don't know the list price yet ?

As you say, V12V had a USP. V12VR was my 'grail car' - it would have to be bloody special for me to spec a brand new aston again......unless they get residuals sorted by restricting supply

[hornbaek]

I completely echo the above. For the objective buyer the V12VS does not stack up against the competition in that price bracket. It is an old design with a tweaked Vanquish engine and a less than class leading gearbox. Personally I do like it (as I am obviously biased) but I would not spend in excess of 150k for a car that technically is behind the curve. Had they maintained the manual gearbox and dropped the adj. suspension I could have been persuaded as "the last one of the manual muscle cars" but without those differentiating features its just not special enough.
I think that the Rapide S is a better proposition and has less obvious rivals at the 150k mark.

[mikey k]

Neil1300R said:

AM8 said:

Currently I drive a V8 S roadster.
.... but I want a faster car... actually higher torque... well both really.

You need to take it to Bamford Rose and get the performance enhancements for the S then!

getting very impatient now

[mikey k]

jonby said:

here's a render of a V12VS roadster that came out a few days ago
http://www.automobilesreview.com/auto-news/aston-m...

Me likey

[Jon39]

jonby said:

............. Yes, it's not the same as an Aston, but I already have one of those :-)

Eminently sensible.

At the time I became an Aston Martin owner, I was quite surprised at how frequently, some motorists do change their high value cars. The previous owner of my own car, purchased three Astons (1 used, then 2 new) within two years.

This is of course very good for the motor industry, but my philosophy matches your comment above.

I now don't need another Aston Martin, because I am quite happy with the one that I have.

Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 4th June 20:50

[AM8]

Bravo73 said:

As well as that, if you can get hold of the recently released edition of 'Vantage' magazine, there is a write up of a 'BR'd' Vantage S that is very well known around these parts:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Also: https://dennis.subscribeonline.co.uk/home/vantage?...

Edited by Bravo73 on Tuesday 4th June 14:18

Thanks. Will try to. Any way I can get this online?

[AM8]

outofstepuk said:

Go onto the sticky thread at the top and that's got everything you could want to know about Bamford Rose. They look after my car, so I'm a big fan of their work.

Fair to say threads can often get taken over by BR talk though, so best to direct you there!

Thanks will take a look.

[AM8]

[quote=hornbaek]I ...V12VS does not stack up against the competition in that price bracket. It is an old design with a tweaked Vanquish engine and a less than class leading gearbox. Personally I do like it (as I am obviously biased) but I would not spend in excess of 150k for a car that technically is behind the curve..
[quote=hornbaek]

I do not disagree necessarily, but that was my point earlier on. Is not this what Porsche has been doing with the 911 for ages now? Playing with the same 6 cil engine, with the same line, with the same interiors... but just upgrading a bit on each new model. But the car is in essence the same for the last 2 or 3 generations, and looks almost identical. However no one says it is an outdated model. Yes, it is technically more advanced than AM. But that has always been the case. Now and 9 years ago. And from a aesthetics perspective the 911 is not even close to the AMs in my opinion.

When I read people complaining about how old the Vantage is (or other models for that matter) I tend to agree at first thought. But then I think what would I do to change and improve if I could and had unlimited funds.

Changing the exterior... I do not think they will ever make a more nice looking car, regardless of how long and hard they try. I like the roadster and would only drive one, for the fun and the sensations, but the Coupe is just the nicer looking car ever produced in my opinion and still is.

The engine. Yes, that needed an improvement, specially the V8s still does. But this V12 of the S is starting to show some serious figures both in terms of hps but more importantly in terms of torque and how it is distributed.

Transmission is a point. They probably need a DC box. Me being a user of SS II, it is fun and nice, the harder you take it the better, but no doubt DC is faster and more versatile, specially on daily normal driving. (haven't tried the III version but really doubt it it will be as good as a DC one). Still they keep improving there as well.

In other areas I think the AM is fine when compared to others.

I am not sure I would like to see an all new Vantage. Chances are it will be a change for the worst, no? I much rather an approach by which they improve engine, handling, and the likes, but keep lines more or less the same with small updates.

Having said that, if they don't come out with a V12S roadster, I think I will be changing to a 911 Turbo S when it comes out or F458...

[robgt]

AM8, try and get a look in the new Vantage Magazine. I own the car featured. The difference Bamford Rose has made is amazing. The power is upto 460 BHP , she will outdrag a DB9 with razor sharp handling as well. It was due to go back to BR for 5 litre cylinder heads a dual induction system with twin throttle bodies added . This would have provided approx 520BHP. Then the plan was to add 5ltr pistons. We could then expect 550 plus BHP. This from a car that would weigh 153 Kilos less than the V12. That extra weight is right on the nose where you do not want it. That is why A V8 will always outhandle a V12. Give BR a call tell them Rob sent you!!!!

[V8LM]

An Aston Martin used to be a unique car with often an eff-off engine. It is now a me-too car with a me-too performance. The uniqueness has gone. Take the wings off the bonnet and what have you got (apart from two holes)?

All IMHO of course.

[AM8]

robgt said:

AM8, try and get a look in the new Vantage Magazine. I own the car featured. The difference Bamford Rose has made is amazing. The power is upto 460 BHP , she will outdrag a DB9 with razor sharp handling as well. It was due to go back to BR for 5 litre cylinder heads a dual induction system with twin throttle bodies added . This would have provided approx 520BHP. Then the plan was to add 5ltr pistons. We could then expect 550 plus BHP. This from a car that would weigh 153 Kilos less than the V12. That extra weight is right on the nose where you do not want it. That is why A V8 will always outhandle a V12. Give BR a call tell them Rob sent you!!!!

Thanks. Can I get this magazine online? Sounds good. I may contact them. You said you were due to go back to get 520 and then 550+. Why didn't you go if I may ask?

[outofstepuk]

AM8 said:

You said you were due to go back to get 520 and then 550+. Why didn't you go if I may ask?

if you find the thread "don't know how break this to you" might be a page or 2 back, you'll find the (very) unfortunate tale of while the next mods are at least on hold...

[Bravo73]

AM8 said:

Why didn't you go if I may ask?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[AM8]

Thank you guys.

Oh man, how unfortunate... Sorry to read Rob. Hope all is fine and that you will get her back soon...

[hornbaek]

[quote=AM8]ornbaek]I ...V12VS does not stack up against the competition in that price bracket. It is an old design with a tweaked Vanquish engine and a less than class leading gearbox. Personally I do like it (as I am obviously biased) but I would not spend in excess of 150k for a car that technically is behind the curve..
[quote=hornbaek]

I do not disagree necessarily, but that was my point earlier on. Is not this what Porsche has been doing with the 911 for ages now? Playing with the same 6 cil engine, with the same line, with the same interiors... but just upgrading a bit on each new model. But the car is in essence the same for the last 2 or 3 generations, and looks almost identical. However no one says it is an outdated model. Yes, it is technically more advanced than AM. But that has always been the case. Now and 9 years ago. And from a aesthetics perspective the 911 is not even close to the AMs in my opinion.

When I read people complaining about how old the Vantage is (or other models for that matter) I tend to agree at first thought. But then I think what would I do to change and improve if I could and had unlimited funds.

I am agreat AM fan - don't get me wrong but on days where I have my rationel head on there are things that don't stack up. Leading technology is one. Ferrari and Porsche have moved the game on. Their DC gearboxes are the new benchmark. Try to drive a 599 and an FF or F12 and you feel that leap in technology instantly. Porsche made the move from TipTronic to PDK as well. The V12VS should stay a manual car - that would have given it an edge playing the niches that the other (volume) manufacturers cannot or will not play. I agree on the looks of the Vantage - it is a strikingly beautiful car and long may it last but the gearbox is its achilles heel.

[jonby]

I don't think the fact it's not 'competitive' in some areas to other supercars is in itself, necessarily a problem, certainly not for everyone anyway. A beautiful car, timeless design, constantly improved with gentle evolution, that's brutally quick - it's far from a bad car ! Though losing manual definitely loses some of the appeal and makes it less of a keeper, more a car to desire to own for 2-4 yrs then move on from

So it keeps coming back to pricing. If its priced at 120k (i.e. real world pricing after discount, in the way that V12V is), then it's fine because 458s & 12Cs are much more money. If it's priced at 160k OTR in the real world, but they really genuinely limit supply from the start for at least 2 yrs, to customer orders and a tiny qty of demonstrators, that's also fine as residuals hold up

But look at new vanquish. They didn't discount a penny. They sold plenty. Then demand dried up. They have kept producing, now for dealer stock. Dealers are stuffed with them and big discounts available. So if an owner of a 1 yr old vanquish looks to trade it in for vanquish volante/V12VS/some other model, they will take a huge hit because what can you realistically expect for a used 1 yr old car if you can already get say 20k (I've no idea what the actual figures are on vanquish as I haven't asked in a while) off a new one - surely that means the 2nd hand one takes a 40k hit ? Surely the same is going to happen on V12VS ?

I am not prepared to keep buying new Astons, specced myself, at full or fullish prices, changing for the next best thing, taking a huge hit each time. At some stage, AM have to learn and do something about it

Put simply, price alone is not nearly as important as price combined with depreciation. If you bought 355, 360, 430 & 458 Ferraris, trading in each time from coupe to spider of each model, doing 'normal supercar mileage', it would have cost massively less than doing the same with Vantages despite the vantage having a lower sticker price and big discounts at the time of purchase. McLaren saw that happening with 12C coupes, so they have stopped producing them pretty much and being more careful with the spider. Aston on the other hand never learn, or perhaps, simply run on too tight a budget to be able to afford to take the longer term view. That's what makes V12VS pricing and the car itself, a problem for the biggest potential market, existing Aston owners

Edited by jonby on Wednesday 5th June 10:28