Discussion
GRBF430F1 said:
whoami said:
That went for pretty much asking price.
Also, the £150K list price is a complete red herring as no one ever paid that.
So the list prices are over - inflated to heavily discount ? Just like Tesco saying everything is on half price so you think you have bagged a bargainAlso, the £150K list price is a complete red herring as no one ever paid that.
Personally I thought that particular car, spec and miles, at £94k was good value but it now makes other used cars look expensive and new car deals ridiculous unless you are talking about £40k discounts.
GRBF430F1 said:
I can get the man maths to work until I consider what it will be worth in 2 years.
?
Whilst I can understand that resale value is important I think as long as you buy at a fair current market price then you have to accept that on such a car you will lose a 'lot' or money. But how can you put a value on the smiles, pleasure and enjoyment that owning an Aston and v12v at that will bring??
When you come to sell, I expect most people px rather than sell privately and as such the dealer is always going to low ball the car. The key is then changing to something that you get a good deal on. I px'd my v8v for a v12v and I got a reasonable deal from a main dealer on my v8 considering it would need a service, new disks, tyres,some paint (probably about 2.5k for me)
My advice is don't worry about what it will be worth in 2 years. Buy it now and enjoy it you won't regret it and you could be run over by a bus next week.
Nobody ever paid list........... Well I did.
Back in 2009 when the V12V was first launched all people with an early "made to order" car paid list. 12 months later you could pick up a dealer specced car (which was not that different to a personally specced one as extras were few) for 120k. I think this is Astons problem in a nutshell. They are so desperate to make the numbers and get cash flow that they burn their most loyal customers badly. The same will happen to the V12VS. To be "first mover" will cost you 30k in a heartbeat. It has happened with the new Vanquish and will happen with every new launch at Aston until they put customer loyalty higher than cash flow.
Back in 2009 when the V12V was first launched all people with an early "made to order" car paid list. 12 months later you could pick up a dealer specced car (which was not that different to a personally specced one as extras were few) for 120k. I think this is Astons problem in a nutshell. They are so desperate to make the numbers and get cash flow that they burn their most loyal customers badly. The same will happen to the V12VS. To be "first mover" will cost you 30k in a heartbeat. It has happened with the new Vanquish and will happen with every new launch at Aston until they put customer loyalty higher than cash flow.
hornbaek said:
Nobody ever paid list........... Well I did.
Back in 2009 when the V12V was first launched all people with an early "made to order" car paid list. 12 months later you could pick up a dealer specced car (which was not that different to a personally specced one as extras were few) for 120k. I think this is Astons problem in a nutshell. They are so desperate to make the numbers and get cash flow that they burn their most loyal customers badly. The same will happen to the V12VS. To be "first mover" will cost you 30k in a heartbeat. It has happened with the new Vanquish and will happen with every new launch at Aston until they put customer loyalty higher than cash flow.
Agreed, but they never will unfortunately.Back in 2009 when the V12V was first launched all people with an early "made to order" car paid list. 12 months later you could pick up a dealer specced car (which was not that different to a personally specced one as extras were few) for 120k. I think this is Astons problem in a nutshell. They are so desperate to make the numbers and get cash flow that they burn their most loyal customers badly. The same will happen to the V12VS. To be "first mover" will cost you 30k in a heartbeat. It has happened with the new Vanquish and will happen with every new launch at Aston until they put customer loyalty higher than cash flow.
hornbaek said:
Nobody ever paid list........... Well I did.
Back in 2009 when the V12V was first launched all people with an early "made to order" car paid list. 12 months later you could pick up a dealer specced car (which was not that different to a personally specced one as extras were few) for 120k. I think this is Astons problem in a nutshell. They are so desperate to make the numbers and get cash flow that they burn their most loyal customers badly. The same will happen to the V12VS. To be "first mover" will cost you 30k in a heartbeat. It has happened with the new Vanquish and will happen with every new launch at Aston until they put customer loyalty higher than cash flow.
That is exactly the problem, summarised really well. My dealer always tells me the reason Gaydon don't care is they think 'Aston Martin Ltd only sell new cars, not used ones'. Very often, the factory are selling the cars at the same price to deales, regardless of the customer discount so it's the dealer taking the hit. Even these latest V12V deals are probably only supported partially by the factory (as it's end of life car) with way over half the discount coming from the dealer, whose margin will be the square root of bugger all on these salesBack in 2009 when the V12V was first launched all people with an early "made to order" car paid list. 12 months later you could pick up a dealer specced car (which was not that different to a personally specced one as extras were few) for 120k. I think this is Astons problem in a nutshell. They are so desperate to make the numbers and get cash flow that they burn their most loyal customers badly. The same will happen to the V12VS. To be "first mover" will cost you 30k in a heartbeat. It has happened with the new Vanquish and will happen with every new launch at Aston until they put customer loyalty higher than cash flow.
But as you so rightly say, the most loyal customers are the ones that take the biggest hits. I went into V12VR with my eyes open, knowing firstly that they couldn't start selling cars with big discounts after I got mine because of the ltd status and secondly, I had to be prepared to keep the car for a good few years, as otherwise the hit would be horrendous. It's for that same reason I can't look at V12VS
I p****d myself laughing at the recent PH article by Chris Harris on depreciation of his 599 - he paid c 100k and IIRC, lost 10kish in a yr and was upset !!! I'm way too embarrassed to admit what I've lost on my 2 previous Astons because apart from anything else, I don't really want to work out the exact figures......let's just say it makes Chris's experience look pretty good in comparison
jonby said:
I p****d myself laughing at the recent PH article by Chris Harris on depreciation of his 599 - he paid c 100k and IIRC, lost 10kish in a yr and was upset !!! I'm way too embarrassed to admit what I've lost on my 2 previous Astons because apart from anything else, I don't really want to work out the exact figures......let's just say it makes Chris's experience look pretty good in comparison
yep I daren't do reverse man maths on mine either
jonby said:
I p****d myself laughing at the recent PH article by Chris Harris on depreciation of his 599 - he paid c 100k and IIRC, lost 10kish in a yr and was upset !!! I'm way too embarrassed to admit what I've lost on my 2 previous Astons because apart from anything else, I don't really want to work out the exact figures......let's just say it makes Chris's experience look pretty good in comparison
I read that article and thought exactly the same.£10k in a year on that type of car is a bargain. He's having a laugh.
Rusty133 said:
Just had a dealer offer me a brand new 2013 V12V for £40k off list price. I guess that will hit residuals, seems like the V12VS is having an impact on prices already. That was his reasoning anyway.
All the recent V12V purchasers have had the same deal. Clear out the old stock to make way for the V12VS.v12woollie said:
Rusty133 said:
Just had a dealer offer me a brand new 2013 V12V for £40k off list price. I guess that will hit residuals, seems like the V12VS is having an impact on prices already. That was his reasoning anyway.
All the recent V12V purchasers have had the same deal. Clear out the old stock to make way for the V12VS.V12VR, to put it into perspective, has typically cost owners 165 +/- 5k OTR...........I wonder how long til they command a 50k or 50% premium over the coupes in the future used market..........
Edited by jonby on Friday 7th June 16:16
Have been offered finally what amounts to £30k off list and pushed them hard to get more but that seems to be the bottom line. An extra £10k would make the man maths and 1st year depreciation more palatable.
Don't know whether to buy the so called £30k off list £111k brand new car or a second hand 2011 car ( as new condition 1 owner, 6,000 mile ) at £90k.
Whats likely to lose less over the next 2 years and 6,000 miles ? Once these cars are gone are the residuals going to firm up across the board for the V12V or will Aston heavily discount the new S in a panic and push them even lower. I can't call that one not knowing the brand very well but a few posts on here suggest a used £90k V12V will be lucky to be worth £65k trade in 2 years time.
Any advice appreciated
Don't know whether to buy the so called £30k off list £111k brand new car or a second hand 2011 car ( as new condition 1 owner, 6,000 mile ) at £90k.
Whats likely to lose less over the next 2 years and 6,000 miles ? Once these cars are gone are the residuals going to firm up across the board for the V12V or will Aston heavily discount the new S in a panic and push them even lower. I can't call that one not knowing the brand very well but a few posts on here suggest a used £90k V12V will be lucky to be worth £65k trade in 2 years time.
Any advice appreciated
jonby said:
v12woollie said:
Rusty133 said:
Just had a dealer offer me a brand new 2013 V12V for £40k off list price. I guess that will hit residuals, seems like the V12VS is having an impact on prices already. That was his reasoning anyway.
All the recent V12V purchasers have had the same deal. Clear out the old stock to make way for the V12VS.GRBF430F1 said:
Have been offered finally what amounts to £30k off list and pushed them hard to get more but that seems to be the bottom line. An extra £10k would make the man maths and 1st year depreciation more palatable.
Don't know whether to buy the so called £30k off list £111k brand new car or a second hand 2011 car ( as new condition 1 owner, 6,000 mile ) at £90k.
Whats likely to lose less over the next 2 years and 6,000 miles ? Once these cars are gone are the residuals going to firm up across the board for the V12V or will Aston heavily discount the new S in a panic and push them even lower. I can't call that one not knowing the brand very well but a few posts on here suggest a used £90k V12V will be lucky to be worth £65k trade in 2 years time.
Any advice appreciated
Are the two cars idential spec or do you prefer one over the other? If it were me I would buy the new one as I always prefer new than used, but I'm assuming the last £20k isn't decisive to you? Everybody has a limit somewhere...Don't know whether to buy the so called £30k off list £111k brand new car or a second hand 2011 car ( as new condition 1 owner, 6,000 mile ) at £90k.
Whats likely to lose less over the next 2 years and 6,000 miles ? Once these cars are gone are the residuals going to firm up across the board for the V12V or will Aston heavily discount the new S in a panic and push them even lower. I can't call that one not knowing the brand very well but a few posts on here suggest a used £90k V12V will be lucky to be worth £65k trade in 2 years time.
Any advice appreciated
As for which one will loose the least - well I think thats pretty simple, the used car of course! Sure the later ones might end up being more desirable but I would place a small wager they will still loose more cash in real terms over the same time period. At the end of the day if you spend less, you have less to loose. If depreciation is your biggest worry then, minimise your outlay!
That said my last V12V, which I bought new, before trading in for my current and also new V12V, lost less than £10k p/a. I was very happy, hence jumped into another one.
AdamV12V said:
GRBF430F1 said:
Have been offered finally what amounts to £30k off list and pushed them hard to get more but that seems to be the bottom line. An extra £10k would make the man maths and 1st year depreciation more palatable.
Don't know whether to buy the so called £30k off list £111k brand new car or a second hand 2011 car ( as new condition 1 owner, 6,000 mile ) at £90k.
Whats likely to lose less over the next 2 years and 6,000 miles ? Once these cars are gone are the residuals going to firm up across the board for the V12V or will Aston heavily discount the new S in a panic and push them even lower. I can't call that one not knowing the brand very well but a few posts on here suggest a used £90k V12V will be lucky to be worth £65k trade in 2 years time.
Any advice appreciated
Are the two cars idential spec or do you prefer one over the other? If it were me I would buy the new one as I always prefer new than used, but I'm assuming the last £20k isn't decisive to you? Everybody has a limit somewhere...Don't know whether to buy the so called £30k off list £111k brand new car or a second hand 2011 car ( as new condition 1 owner, 6,000 mile ) at £90k.
Whats likely to lose less over the next 2 years and 6,000 miles ? Once these cars are gone are the residuals going to firm up across the board for the V12V or will Aston heavily discount the new S in a panic and push them even lower. I can't call that one not knowing the brand very well but a few posts on here suggest a used £90k V12V will be lucky to be worth £65k trade in 2 years time.
Any advice appreciated
As for which one will loose the least - well I think thats pretty simple, the used car of course! Sure the later ones might end up being more desirable but I would place a small wager they will still loose more cash in real terms over the same time period. At the end of the day if you spend less, you have less to loose. If depreciation is your biggest worry then, minimise your outlay!
That said my last V12V, which I bought new, before trading in for my current and also new V12V, lost less than £10k p/a. I was very happy, hence jumped into another one.
GRBF430F1 said:
will Aston heavily discount the new S in a panic
Initially, one assumes there will be no discount and all cars will be built to customer order. Then each dealer will be allowed to spec a single demonstrator (before that, there is normally a 'roadshow' with one or two cars going round all the UK dealers spending a day or so at each, with potential customers 'booked in' for a test drive)The dealers have to hold the demonstrators for a few months but after a while they can sell them and will start to order more plus, once the backlog of customer specced orders for V12VS die down, the waiting time drops and dealers will start to order for stock. Because there will then be demonstrators & dealer specced cars available, which initially sell at a modest discount, people become less inclined to spec their own at full list. The prices of new delaer specced cars start to drop and so it goes on
The question is never if the price will start to drop a lot, only when. Until AM grow some balls & have deep enough pockets to restrict supply to dealers to customer specced cars only plus the odd demonstrator but NO dealer specced unregistered cars just sat on the forecourt. It would take 2-3 yrs of such a strategy to properly deal with the problem and AM never have enough cash to suffer the short term losses. The problem is made worse by unrealistic pricing in the first place.
jonby said:
GRBF430F1 said:
will Aston heavily discount the new S in a panic
Initially, one assumes there will be no discount and all cars will be built to customer order. Then each dealer will be allowed to spec a single demonstrator (before that, there is normally a 'roadshow' with one or two cars going round all the UK dealers spending a day or so at each, with potential customers 'booked in' for a test drive)The dealers have to hold the demonstrators for a few months but after a while they can sell them and will start to order more plus, once the backlog of customer specced orders for V12VS die down, the waiting time drops and dealers will start to order for stock. Because there will then be demonstrators & dealer specced cars available, which initially sell at a modest discount, people become less inclined to spec their own at full list. The prices of new delaer specced cars start to drop and so it goes on
The question is never if the price will start to drop a lot, only when. Until AM grow some balls & have deep enough pockets to restrict supply to dealers to customer specced cars only plus the odd demonstrator but NO dealer specced unregistered cars just sat on the forecourt. It would take 2-3 yrs of such a strategy to properly deal with the problem and AM never have enough cash to suffer the short term losses. The problem is made worse by unrealistic pricing in the first place.
As an example, Stratstone currently have 84 new cars (various models) in their group alone. They are desperate to reduce this number so large discounts follow.
I also agree with your point regards silly initial pricing. Maybe the new CEO will sort it out?
AdamV12V said:
Are the two cars idential spec or do you prefer one over the other? If it were me I would buy the new one as I always prefer new than used, but I'm assuming the last £20k isn't decisive to you? Everybody has a limit somewhere...
As for which one will loose the least - well I think thats pretty simple, the used car of course! Sure the later ones might end up being more desirable but I would place a small wager they will still loose more cash in real terms over the same time period. At the end of the day if you spend less, you have less to loose. If depreciation is your biggest worry then, minimise your outlay!
That said my last V12V, which I bought new, before trading in for my current and also new V12V, lost less than £10k p/a. I was very happy, hence jumped into another one.
As I'm only looking to go into one as a 2 year stop gap until i buy something "special" depreciation or minimalising it is a high priority. I am used to losing £10k pa but with the buying /selling premium of changing as well I don't want it to become £30k over 2 yearsAs for which one will loose the least - well I think thats pretty simple, the used car of course! Sure the later ones might end up being more desirable but I would place a small wager they will still loose more cash in real terms over the same time period. At the end of the day if you spend less, you have less to loose. If depreciation is your biggest worry then, minimise your outlay!
That said my last V12V, which I bought new, before trading in for my current and also new V12V, lost less than £10k p/a. I was very happy, hence jumped into another one.
I agree that buying the right spec is still important and fortunately there are a couple of alternatives both new and used but for the £20k price difference and 6,000 miles the used car condition is good and therefore the stronger proposition.
I'm almost there but having test drove one the other day I did find the driving position a lttle awkward.
I'm only 5'9" and short legs so I sit quite far forward for a bloke and that made the gear stick quite far back for me changing gear. Elbow was almost behind me when changing to 2nd,4th and 6th. Problem is that if I move the seat back to get a more comfortable arm position I'm then struggling to fully depress clutch which lead to both poor clutch and accelerator control on a steep hill start.
The clutch was also quite heavy comapared to my daily drive and all in all I'm still not convinced it gives me that driving experience I'm looking for on a 4th car for only dry summer sunday driving.
Are there any other short ar5e5 who have this issue ? Do you just adapt and get used to it ? A 20 min test drive doesn't really answer that question
GRBF430F1 said:
AdamV12V said:
Are the two cars idential spec or do you prefer one over the other? If it were me I would buy the new one as I always prefer new than used, but I'm assuming the last £20k isn't decisive to you? Everybody has a limit somewhere...
As for which one will loose the least - well I think thats pretty simple, the used car of course! Sure the later ones might end up being more desirable but I would place a small wager they will still loose more cash in real terms over the same time period. At the end of the day if you spend less, you have less to loose. If depreciation is your biggest worry then, minimise your outlay!
That said my last V12V, which I bought new, before trading in for my current and also new V12V, lost less than £10k p/a. I was very happy, hence jumped into another one.
As I'm only looking to go into one as a 2 year stop gap until i buy something "special" depreciation or minimalising it is a high priority. I am used to losing £10k pa but with the buying /selling premium of changing as well I don't want it to become £30k over 2 yearsAs for which one will loose the least - well I think thats pretty simple, the used car of course! Sure the later ones might end up being more desirable but I would place a small wager they will still loose more cash in real terms over the same time period. At the end of the day if you spend less, you have less to loose. If depreciation is your biggest worry then, minimise your outlay!
That said my last V12V, which I bought new, before trading in for my current and also new V12V, lost less than £10k p/a. I was very happy, hence jumped into another one.
I agree that buying the right spec is still important and fortunately there are a couple of alternatives both new and used but for the £20k price difference and 6,000 miles the used car condition is good and therefore the stronger proposition.
I'm almost there but having test drove one the other day I did find the driving position a lttle awkward.
I'm only 5'9" and short legs so I sit quite far forward for a bloke and that made the gear stick quite far back for me changing gear. Elbow was almost behind me when changing to 2nd,4th and 6th. Problem is that if I move the seat back to get a more comfortable arm position I'm then struggling to fully depress clutch which lead to both poor clutch and accelerator control on a steep hill start.
The clutch was also quite heavy comapared to my daily drive and all in all I'm still not convinced it gives me that driving experience I'm looking for on a 4th car for only dry summer sunday driving.
Are there any other short ar5e5 who have this issue ? Do you just adapt and get used to it ? A 20 min test drive doesn't really answer that question
I find clutch relatively light for this kind of car
In mine, for different reasons, I went for the V8 gearstick which is shorter
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