Tragic new from Le Mans

[slippery]

RIP.

[Steve R7]

So sad RIP...Lets hope the organizer`s can learn from this and make the track safer for the future.

Nearly 5hrs lost so far to `safety car` which is frustrating for everyone, teams,drivers and spectators.The owners of the fun fair,bars,shop`s etc are proberly noticing an increase in income as spectators head for these areas when no `racing` is going on.

[George29]

Steve R7 said:

So sad RIP...Lets hope the organizer`s can learn from this and make the track safer for the future.

Very sad news, but I don't think the organiser's are to blame. Motorsport is dangerous, he knew the risks beforehand. This was just a freak accident, unfortunately they do happen

Btw, did he race in V8 supercars too? I'm sure I've heard the name from somewhere before.

[Jon39]

George29 said:

Btw, did he race in V8 supercars too? I'm sure I've heard the name from somewhere before.

Yes - he began racing in Australia in 2003, driving in the Australian Nations Cup Championship, and in the Sandown 500 and Bathurst 1000. Simonsen's best Bathurst result came in 2011, when he finished 3rd for Kelly Racing driving alongside Greg Murphy. Allan Simonsen won the Australian GT Championship in 2007, and finished 2nd in 2008.

Tragic news.

Let us just hope that AMR car 97 continues to hold the lead in the GTE Pro class. A class win would at least be a tribute.

[gmacdb9]

Very, very sad news.

Jon39 said:

Let us just hope that AMR car 97 continues to hold the lead in the GTE Pro class. A class win would at least be a tribute.

+1

[Jockman]

st news - such a young age.

And another one dead at the Nurburgring ??

st weekend

[BMCG]

Steve R7 said:

So sad RIP...Lets hope the organizer`s can learn from this and make the track safer for the future.

Nearly 5hrs lost so far to `safety car` which is frustrating for everyone, teams,drivers and spectators.The owners of the fun fair,bars,shop`s etc are proberly noticing an increase in income as spectators head for these areas when no `racing` is going on.

I do think the organizers can learn form the incident....it is surprising (at least to me) that TecPro, or equivalent barriers, have not been used...

Such afford a substantially enhanced manner in which to de-energise an out of control car....

[XJ Flyer]

BMCG said:

Steve R7 said:

So sad RIP...Lets hope the organizer`s can learn from this and make the track safer for the future.

Nearly 5hrs lost so far to `safety car` which is frustrating for everyone, teams,drivers and spectators.The owners of the fun fair,bars,shop`s etc are proberly noticing an increase in income as spectators head for these areas when no `racing` is going on.

I do think the organizers can learn form the incident....it is surprising (at least to me) that TecPro, or equivalent barriers, have not been used...

Such afford a substantially enhanced manner in which to de-energise an out of control car....

It seemed to be a place where a tyre barrier in front of the fixed barrier might also possibly have helped.

While I also think that the move to smaller engine sizes in the GT classes,at least in the case of the V8 as opposed to big V12 Aston and relatively smaller V8 as opposed to LS7 in the Corvette,is creating the counterproductive effect on safety of drivers maybe trying to push too hard on the entry to corners to carry as much speed as possible through on the exit knowing that their straightline speed is compromised.Whereas if the larger V12 engines were allowed to be used without restrictors it seems obvious that a more relaxed approach to corners could be used thereby keeping a tighter line through the bend and then make up for the lost time on the straight.Which seems to me to be the definition of GT racing as opposed to other types where cornering speeds are more critical to average lap times.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Sunday 23 June 16:59

[Steve R7]

George29 said:

Steve R7 said:

So sad RIP...Lets hope the organizer`s can learn from this and make the track safer for the future.

Very sad news, but I don't think the organiser's are to blame. Motorsport is dangerous, he knew the risks beforehand. This was just a freak accident, unfortunately they do happen

Btw, did he race in V8 supercars too? I'm sure I've heard the name from somewhere before.

I was not blaming the organizers, sorry if it came across this way but while all motorsport is dangerous and I was lucky enough to race bikes for 12yrs in BSS,BSB and some WSB rounds, as a rider I always had the attitude to `learn and improve` as did the team and this should be the attitude of the organizers as well.I was always backing any rider/team effort to improve track safety to the organizers.

Yes everyone knows the risks and freak accidents happen but the main thing is, something positive will come out of this tragic accident or any accident, whether it is extra safety improvments to the car structure,track side alterations/run off/safer barrier structures but you must always look to `learn and improve`.

[tail slide]

XJ Flyer said:

It seemed to be a place where a tyre barrier in front of the fixed barrier might also possibly have helped.

While I also think that the move to smaller engine sizes in the GT classes,at least in the case of the V8 as opposed to big V12 Aston and relatively smaller V8 as opposed to LS7 in the Corvette,is creating the counterproductive effect on safety of drivers maybe trying to push too hard on the entry to corners to carry as much speed as possible through on the exit knowing that their straightline speed is compromised.Whereas if the larger V12 engines were allowed to be used without restrictors it seems obvious that a more relaxed approach to corners could be used thereby keeping a tighter line through the bend and then make up for the lost time on the straight.Which seems to me to be the definition of GT racing as opposed to other types where cornering speeds are more critical to average lap times.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Sunday 23 June 16:59

Very sad. IMO too early to establish any safety barrier lessons, there's a rumour of a tree very close behind barrier at that spot, if so very unlucky but at least something can be done to check for this all around circuit.

Restrictions on power are irrelevant, in any racing we always carry as much speed as possible from apex onto the next straight regardless of power.

[ds2000]

Very very sad news

RIP

[Jon39]

tail slide said:

Restrictions on power are irrelevant, in any racing we always carry as much speed as possible from apex onto the next straight regardless of power.

Agree, and I noticed that the DTM cars at Brands Hatch, went on to full throttle well before the apex of Paddock Hill Bend.

[XJ Flyer]

tail slide said:

Restrictions on power are irrelevant, in any racing we always carry as much speed as possible from apex onto the next straight regardless of power.

Maybe in this case it was taking that mindset just a bit too far over the line which divides as much as possible from too much that put the car so far over the line and into danger with all four wheels seeming to be effectiveley off the circuit with obvious resulting loss of grip owing to the surface situation at that point.Which can sometimes be a penalty situation in the event of a car being too far across the circuit edge line marking.

I'm guessing that having a much better surplus of acceleration and straight line speed would at least reduce the pressures on drivers to maybe get too close to that point through corners.The general idea,that having a lot more power,to accelerate faster out of corners and provide higher straight line speeds,thereby reducing entry and cornering speeds required to get the same,possibly even better,average lap times,seems a good one in my own personal view.The very essence of GT racing should be all about the idea of slow in fast out and is what,should,seperate such racing from F1 and LMP which are effectively both more downforce reliant series classes to provide much higher cornering speeds.

[Bincenzo]

XJ Flyer said:

Maybe in this case it was taking that mindset just a bit too far over the line which divides as much as possible from too much that put the car so far over the line and into danger with all four wheels seeming to be effectiveley off the circuit with obvious resulting loss of grip owing to the surface situation at that point.Which can sometimes be a penalty situation in the event of a car being too far across the circuit edge line marking.

I'm guessing that having a much better surplus of acceleration and straight line speed would at least reduce the pressures on drivers to maybe get too close to that point through corners.The general idea,that having a lot more power,to accelerate faster out of corners and provide higher straight line speeds,thereby reducing entry and cornering speeds required to get the same,possibly even better,average lap times,seems a good one in my own personal view.The very essence of GT racing should be all about the idea of slow in fast out and is what,should,seperate such racing from F1 and LMP which are effectively both more downforce reliant series classes to provide much higher cornering speeds.

I'm no racing driver but I disagree - you're effectively asking the driver to limit his entry speed to a corner. Never ever going to happen, as speed carried onto the straight, especially long straights like LM is going to gain you seconds over rivals that are slower off the corner. Any driver who genuinely wants to win will never willingly compromise any advantage.

[XJ Flyer]

Jon39 said:

Agree, and I noticed that the DTM cars at Brands Hatch, went on to full throttle well before the apex of Paddock Hill Bend.

There are comments around that DTM cars are like F1 cars with a roof at least from the point of view of downforce levels.

[XJ Flyer]

Bincenzo said:

I'm no racing driver but I disagree - you're effectively asking the driver to limit his entry speed to a corner. Never ever going to happen, as speed carried onto the straight, especially long straights like LM is going to gain you seconds over rivals that are slower off the corner. Any driver who genuinely wants to win will never willingly compromise any advantage.

It's probably more a question of wether the best way to get that advantage is by way of having more power than rival cars,than by trying to enter corners faster thereby requiring a wider line on after the exit.Considering that it's supposed to be all about an endurance challenge of machinery not who is prepared to risk entering corners the fastest to the point of needing such wide exit lines.Especially in the case of GT class cars.Although that's only a personal view.

[Bincenzo]

XJ Flyer said:

It's probably more a question of wether the best way to get that advantage is by way of having more power than rival cars,than by trying to enter corners faster thereby requiring a wider line on after the exit.Considering that it's supposed to be all about an endurance challenge of machinery not who is prepared to risk entering corners the fastest to the point of needing such wide exit lines.Especially in the case of GT class cars.Although that's only a personal view.

I do see what you mean, but i'm guessing that all teams operate at the maximum power available to them by the regulations. The cars are effectively operating at the same spec, but the gains/losses are made by pitstops, fuel economy, luck (good or bad) and over 24hrs, a huge amount can be made by driver speed and consistency.

V8 or V12, every driver will strive to save time by minimising the time it takes to get to Vmax on a straight, and the key to that is exit speed and traction.

[XJ Flyer]

Bincenzo said:

I do see what you mean, but i'm guessing that all teams operate at the maximum power available to them by the regulations. The cars are effectively operating at the same spec, but the gains/losses are made by pitstops, fuel economy, luck (good or bad) and over 24hrs, a huge amount can be made by driver speed and consistency.

V8 or V12, every driver will strive to save time by minimising the time it takes to get to Vmax on a straight, and the key to that is exit speed and traction.

There's obviously a difference in the amount of outside kerb taken here by the DBR9 at the same corner chasing down a C6.The question is is that difference an effect of needing less entry speed to get the required exit speed as I'm saying or is it just that the driver isn't trying as much as he should be ?.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25U3WwnO28

3.55-4.00

[George29]

Steve R7 said:

I was not blaming the organizers, sorry if it came across this way but while all motorsport is dangerous and I was lucky enough to race bikes for 12yrs in BSS,BSB and some WSB rounds, as a rider I always had the attitude to `learn and improve` as did the team and this should be the attitude of the organizers as well.I was always backing any rider/team effort to improve track safety to the organizers.

Yes everyone knows the risks and freak accidents happen but the main thing is, something positive will come out of this tragic accident or any accident, whether it is extra safety improvments to the car structure,track side alterations/run off/safer barrier structures but you must always look to `learn and improve`.

Ah I must have misinterpreted it then, sorry.

If something comes out of it, such as having inflatable barriers there next year which could save another life, then yes something positive will have come out of it. Hopefully they will learn from it by next year

As for the comments on reducing corner speeds, don't be so utterly ridiculous. This is racing. Racing drivers will do anything they can to get around the circuit as fast as possible. This would not include taking corners slower because of some health and safety bullst. They all know it's dangerous, I imagine they have all crashed before. They know the risks and are willing to take them. It would be st if they tried to control racing by trying to reduce speeds.

[XJ Flyer]

George29 said:

As for the comments on reducing corner speeds, don't be so utterly ridiculous. This is racing. Racing drivers will do anything they can to get around the circuit as fast as possible. This would not include taking corners slower because of some health and safety bullst. They all know it's dangerous, I imagine they have all crashed before. They know the risks and are willing to take them. It would be st if they tried to control racing by trying to reduce speeds.

No one is saying reduce speeds in fact I'm saying the opposite.It's actually the rule makers who've reduced the speeds over the years by putting in chicanes on the Mulsanne and imposing continuous ridiculous engine capacity limit and restritor regs.Especially in the GT classes where the shortfall can't be made up in cornering speeds because of lack of downforce.The only thing I'm saying is that doing that in this case just might have created more dangers,in regards to drivers being pressured into trying to compensate for all that by increasing corner entry speeds,to maintain lap times.Keeping cars on the circuit isn't health and safety bullst.Whereas the possibility that drivers might be trying to go faster than the limits of the circuit through corners,to make up for the lost time on the straights caused by engine power reductions and too short straights,certainly would be.