Bit of a Statement,don't you think.
Discussion
Right before we start this is not a knock at the brand we cherish but a mere observation that made me tut,smile then tut again as I recalled
many gone before conversations and indeed forum posts over the recent months and years.
Over the years I've been fortunate enough to own several of these addictive motorcars and have had the pleasure of meeting many fellow
owners and enthusiasts most of which have some tail of woe to tell and it just made me smile when I read part of Dr Bez's foreword in one
of the many 100 year Celebration collaborations.
I quote,......"Our pursuit of perfection and our obsession with perfect panel fit and flawless paint finish are born of desire............................"
Ok in theory but I for one could take him to task there in what is a very bold and daring statement just based on my own personal experiences
let alone those stories I've heard along the way.
At times I get the feeling that some of these guys get carried away with the emotion of it all and often miss the glaringly obvious,may be if they
cared to honestly look or even back track their own customer service files
......,an ego check to bring them back to reality I'm sure is in the making.
Now he's clearly not going to write how we often miss the glaringly obvious miss alignment or point out that we may have missed painting that bit,
let alone mentioning the facts that so and so has got carried away with the DA sander and left the boot flips horrendously scarred,but really.......
Those are just a few of my very own encounters whilst having the pleasure of ownership down the years which as I said just made me smile when I
read the Good Doctors esteemed but some what head in the sand comment.
We all know that Detailers up and down the land are rubbing their hands in delight apon seeing the all to regular usual finish teething problems and hey
let it be said I'm pleased they're there to correct our Pride and Joy's.
As I stated at the start this is not a knock but merely my own observation,one that indeed even made the Wife raise her eyebrows when she to read it.
I suppose the key word in his quote is "Pursuit",loosely suggesting the chase goes on.
many gone before conversations and indeed forum posts over the recent months and years.
Over the years I've been fortunate enough to own several of these addictive motorcars and have had the pleasure of meeting many fellow
owners and enthusiasts most of which have some tail of woe to tell and it just made me smile when I read part of Dr Bez's foreword in one
of the many 100 year Celebration collaborations.
I quote,......"Our pursuit of perfection and our obsession with perfect panel fit and flawless paint finish are born of desire............................"
Ok in theory but I for one could take him to task there in what is a very bold and daring statement just based on my own personal experiences
let alone those stories I've heard along the way.
At times I get the feeling that some of these guys get carried away with the emotion of it all and often miss the glaringly obvious,may be if they
cared to honestly look or even back track their own customer service files
......,an ego check to bring them back to reality I'm sure is in the making.Now he's clearly not going to write how we often miss the glaringly obvious miss alignment or point out that we may have missed painting that bit,
let alone mentioning the facts that so and so has got carried away with the DA sander and left the boot flips horrendously scarred,but really.......
Those are just a few of my very own encounters whilst having the pleasure of ownership down the years which as I said just made me smile when I
read the Good Doctors esteemed but some what head in the sand comment.
We all know that Detailers up and down the land are rubbing their hands in delight apon seeing the all to regular usual finish teething problems and hey
let it be said I'm pleased they're there to correct our Pride and Joy's.
As I stated at the start this is not a knock but merely my own observation,one that indeed even made the Wife raise her eyebrows when she to read it.
I suppose the key word in his quote is "Pursuit",loosely suggesting the chase goes on.
Pilgrim,
What gets my Goat, "a lot of people don't know I've got a Goat" is the fact that they have Inspectors at the factory that must have selective vision.
How can such glaring faults be missed especially when you see that White Light Box Area they use for I suppose inspection and fault finding purposes.
That said I believe a final inspection is also under taken prior to that "Inspected by Badge" being placed under the Bonnet.
Finally when you consider a full PDI is undertaken by the supplying Dealer prior to hand over it does make you think that any new future Trading
Partner should be Vision Express.
Bless um.
I'd often wondered why there was so much Labrador crap down that end of the Factory
.
What gets my Goat, "a lot of people don't know I've got a Goat" is the fact that they have Inspectors at the factory that must have selective vision.
How can such glaring faults be missed especially when you see that White Light Box Area they use for I suppose inspection and fault finding purposes.
That said I believe a final inspection is also under taken prior to that "Inspected by Badge" being placed under the Bonnet.
Finally when you consider a full PDI is undertaken by the supplying Dealer prior to hand over it does make you think that any new future Trading
Partner should be Vision Express.
Bless um.
I'd often wondered why there was so much Labrador crap down that end of the Factory.Edited by Ed50 on Sunday 18th August 13:49
Ed yes it is galling...I know from my own experience it fairly easy to spot things at source and put them right,I worked for Ford at some time, so some experience in this field..I think what blew my mind on the AM models that I have owned, that so little regard for putting thing right. In several examples of taking things apart finding carelessness under the surface let alone what you see eg paint, adhesives/glue, electrics etc. Unfortunately I could go on but maybe I am the wrong sort of owner maybe an R8 next. I did explain once to AM that these sort issues would not have occurred in such numbers if the standards where enforced with some rigour. It costs much more if left to put right than solving at source. I wonder if AM have heard of Value Engineering???
I do so want them to get it right but considering a DB9.2 questionable...
I do so want them to get it right but considering a DB9.2 questionable...
Edited by pilgrim7777 on Sunday 18th August 12:51
Edited by pilgrim7777 on Sunday 18th August 12:53
Edited by pilgrim7777 on Sunday 18th August 12:54
[quote=pilgrim7777]Ed yes it is galling...I know from my own experience it fairly easy to spot things at source and put them right,I worked for Ford at some time, so some experience in this field..I think what blew my mind on the AM models that I have owned, that so little regard for putting thing right. In several examples of taking things apart finding carelessness under the surface let alone what you see eg paint, adhesives/glue, electrics etc. Unfortunately I could go on but maybe I am the wrong sort of owner maybe an R8 next. I did explain once to AM that these sort issues would not have occurred in such numbers if the standards where enforced with some rigour. It costs much more if left to put right than solving at source. I wonder if AM have heard of Value Engineering???
I do so want them to get it right but considering a DB9.2 questionable...
quote]
Plus 1. There are too many issues (albeit mainly minor) that seem to afflict cars over too many model years (ie the paint bubbling which really should not be on cars manufactured over so many model years - it should have been stamped out soon as it became apparent). I too have wondered how on earth AM build in continuous quality improvement into the manufacturing process (if they do), and even designing out issues if possible. I read on here several month ago a comment that AM allow £5000 per car for warranty issues, and if true I do hope that hasn't become a target for them. If they have such a mindset that as long as warranty is under £5000 per car then they are fine and don't need to change, it would be very poor management thinking. Type and frequency of warranty demand should be feeding back to design and manufacturing and reduce warranty costs and improve quality and confidence. I do hope they do take that approach but it isn't apparent from comments here. In the meantime my son will be in a position to buy one in a couple year, but based on my own experience with a succession of minor issues he too will go for an R8 instead. Quality is a strategic issue, not something left to the variations of the production line. Just my two pen'arth of course.
I do so want them to get it right but considering a DB9.2 questionable...
quote]
Plus 1. There are too many issues (albeit mainly minor) that seem to afflict cars over too many model years (ie the paint bubbling which really should not be on cars manufactured over so many model years - it should have been stamped out soon as it became apparent). I too have wondered how on earth AM build in continuous quality improvement into the manufacturing process (if they do), and even designing out issues if possible. I read on here several month ago a comment that AM allow £5000 per car for warranty issues, and if true I do hope that hasn't become a target for them. If they have such a mindset that as long as warranty is under £5000 per car then they are fine and don't need to change, it would be very poor management thinking. Type and frequency of warranty demand should be feeding back to design and manufacturing and reduce warranty costs and improve quality and confidence. I do hope they do take that approach but it isn't apparent from comments here. In the meantime my son will be in a position to buy one in a couple year, but based on my own experience with a succession of minor issues he too will go for an R8 instead. Quality is a strategic issue, not something left to the variations of the production line. Just my two pen'arth of course.
Neil1300R said:
Its all part of Dr Bez's ego - doesn't like to hear bad news.
Doesn't have to now Neil,I hear a one owner Segway's up for grabs.......
.Pilgrim,
I agree and can see your frustration,concerns and doubt,I suppose it goes down to how much we love our Astons and how far they
get under our skin......but my mates just ditched Audi after 3 on the trot for on going issues.
Glad to see he's listened to me as we are off on Wednesday Aston shopping for him
.Mr Hall,
There's a money spinner for you on the old Sill Plaque job if ever I saw one......."Check for Defects prior to Boarding."
Only joking don't you just love em,by the way mines currently in with issues being sorted
.Excellent Two Pen'arth Steve,
I didn't know about that 5k business which if true is a bit of a worry,
I might have opened or reopened a can of worms here which wasn't intentional but clearly this is an ongoing debacle.
By the ways hows the Boxster behaving its self,I'm still having trouble sleeping at night
I didn't know about that 5k business which if true is a bit of a worry,
I might have opened or reopened a can of worms here which wasn't intentional but clearly this is an ongoing debacle.
By the ways hows the Boxster behaving its self,I'm still having trouble sleeping at night
Edited by Ed50 on Sunday 18th August 15:59
Ed50 said:
Excellent Two Pen'arth Steve,
I didn't know about that 5k business which if true is a bit of a worry,
I might have opened or reopened a can of worms here which wasn't attentional but clearly this is an ongoing debacle.
By the ways hows the Boxster behaving its self,I'm still having trouble sleeping at night
Lol, no its a can of worms worth opening if Am actually read these threads, which lets face it are an excellent source of customer feedback, loyalty checks, etc. And yes we love the cars for everything else but for me its getting the car to score 10/10 rather than 8/10 or whatever number we each place on it.I didn't know about that 5k business which if true is a bit of a worry,
I might have opened or reopened a can of worms here which wasn't attentional but clearly this is an ongoing debacle.
By the ways hows the Boxster behaving its self,I'm still having trouble sleeping at night
Boxster is going great after the engine mount was replaced, thanks for asking. Its a beautiful car to drive, especially the PDK, very easy to live with up to now BUT just not the sense of occasion I get from the Vantage. Despite my comments above I'm an AM guy through and through
steveatesh said:
Ed50 said:
Excellent Two Pen'arth Steve,
I didn't know about that 5k business which if true is a bit of a worry,
I might have opened or reopened a can of worms here which wasn't attentional but clearly this is an ongoing debacle.
By the ways hows the Boxster behaving its self,I'm still having trouble sleeping at night
Lol, no its a can of worms worth opening if Am actually read these threads, which lets face it are an excellent source of customer feedback, loyalty checks, etc. And yes we love the cars for everything else but for me its getting the car to score 10/10 rather than 8/10 or whatever number we each place on it.I didn't know about that 5k business which if true is a bit of a worry,
I might have opened or reopened a can of worms here which wasn't attentional but clearly this is an ongoing debacle.
By the ways hows the Boxster behaving its self,I'm still having trouble sleeping at night
Boxster is going great after the engine mount was replaced, thanks for asking. Its a beautiful car to drive, especially the PDK, very easy to live with up to now BUT just not the sense of occasion I get from the Vantage. Despite my comments above I'm an AM guy through and through
told if people would let on but I think many say very little as not to belittle their investment.
I bet the Detailing fraternity could put a scary spin on it and thats only cosmetically as my original post implied let alone any mechanical atrocities.
I'm curious: how much of the scratches and swirls do you think left the factory unnoticed during the final inspection and how many we're introduced by subsequent cleanings during PDI or other stages prior to being sold as a new vehicle? I find it hard to believe that they could miss all those scratches in a white room under inspection lights at the factory.
Edited by KarlFranz on Monday 19th August 03:52
KarlFranz said:
I'm curious: how much of the scratches and swirls do you think left the factory unnoticed the the final inspection and how many we're introduced by subsequent cleanings during PDI or other stages prior to being sold as a new vehicle? I find it hard to believe that they could miss all those scratches in a white room under inspection lights at the factory.
I dare say quite a few are caused at the dealer Karl - I saw a black DBS being dry polished in the showroom - the guy had a yellow duster style cloth and applied polish straight from the tin onto a dusty car. I almost weeped! KarlFranz said:
I'm curious: how much of the scratches and swirls do you think left the factory unnoticed during the final inspection and how many we're introduced by subsequent cleanings during PDI or other stages prior to being sold as a new vehicle? I find it hard to believe that they could miss all those scratches in a white room under inspection lights at the factory.
Karl-Franz.Edited by KarlFranz on Monday 19th August 03:52
Scratches and Swirls can be attributed to the cars sitting at dealers and being showroom models,also some cleaning practices leave a lot to be desired where the swirls etc are
almost certainly applied.
Scratches can happen anywhere,in transit or whilst being pawed over by potential buyers whilst standing in showrooms, but a lot of the shall we say deeper imperfections such
as Sander marks and area's of missed paint and panel fit are all classics which can only be attributed to the factory and being a product of their current standards and inspection policies.
Interestingly do you find the same issues over there in the States as we as the home market encounter all to regularly,it crossed my mind whether a more stringent inspection
was taken for oversea's business and any other potential or emerging market places.
Have a great day
. So the point if this thread is that Ed has a new goat. Pics please, forum rules and all that...
Right. As you guys know, I see more Astons than most and it's the same with every car pretty much. Panel fit is poor, edges have not been painted properly or damaged at the factory, sanding marks all over the place, tail lights that seem to be thrown in and not bothered to check that it's touching the paint one side and that you can nearly get a finger in the other! Boot lips that hit the bumper, the list could go on and that's just some of what I see.
In regards to sanding marks, I think it's got worse. I think the final inspection lot must all have a bad case of hay fever at the min! I think if they change what they use to polish the cars, that would help solve some of the issues.
On the factory tour, the guy leading it blamed the dealers, but when I pointed out that some of the cars in the factory had the same issues, he said that it hadn't been signed off. Even the cars we were given to drive had sanding marks all over the bonnet. Work service said that they couldn't guarantee 100% on every car!
From what I'm lead to believe, there just isn't the pride in making the cars anymore, they are just numbers and if they guy above them has signed it off, then it's good enough for them. I imagine time is probably an issue too.
That said, I think Ferrari are worse.
Most people know what to expect now, but I think there are a lot of people out there that presume that because its a new Aston and they've just spent 100k, it must be perfect and wrapped up in cotton wool until its unveiled at the showroom. Wrong. The truth being that they are treated no better than a 10k ford.
Right. As you guys know, I see more Astons than most and it's the same with every car pretty much. Panel fit is poor, edges have not been painted properly or damaged at the factory, sanding marks all over the place, tail lights that seem to be thrown in and not bothered to check that it's touching the paint one side and that you can nearly get a finger in the other! Boot lips that hit the bumper, the list could go on and that's just some of what I see.
In regards to sanding marks, I think it's got worse. I think the final inspection lot must all have a bad case of hay fever at the min! I think if they change what they use to polish the cars, that would help solve some of the issues.
On the factory tour, the guy leading it blamed the dealers, but when I pointed out that some of the cars in the factory had the same issues, he said that it hadn't been signed off. Even the cars we were given to drive had sanding marks all over the bonnet. Work service said that they couldn't guarantee 100% on every car!
From what I'm lead to believe, there just isn't the pride in making the cars anymore, they are just numbers and if they guy above them has signed it off, then it's good enough for them. I imagine time is probably an issue too.
That said, I think Ferrari are worse.
Most people know what to expect now, but I think there are a lot of people out there that presume that because its a new Aston and they've just spent 100k, it must be perfect and wrapped up in cotton wool until its unveiled at the showroom. Wrong. The truth being that they are treated no better than a 10k ford.
Thank you Francis,
Your professional view says it all really,its probably getting worse,sadly.
Some one needs to take the Bull or in this case Goat by the horns and get it sorted for the good of their own reputation as this thread shows
in some cases current AM owners are fed up with it and are considering defection to other brands,frankly that can't make for good reading for
AM if they bother to monitor this forum and that said how many other owners have already made the move to the competition without voicing
their issue or concerns.
Thanks for mentioning my Cake devouring Goat there Paddy.....umm I think we'll name it McGinty after some lost relative of yours that kept Goats
Your professional view says it all really,its probably getting worse,sadly.
Some one needs to take the Bull or in this case Goat by the horns and get it sorted for the good of their own reputation as this thread shows
in some cases current AM owners are fed up with it and are considering defection to other brands,frankly that can't make for good reading for
AM if they bother to monitor this forum and that said how many other owners have already made the move to the competition without voicing
their issue or concerns.
Thanks for mentioning my Cake devouring Goat there Paddy.....umm I think we'll name it McGinty after some lost relative of yours that kept Goats
Ed50 said:
Thank you Francis,
Your professional view says it all really,its probably getting worse,sadly.
Some one needs to take the Bull or in this case Goat by the horns and get it sorted for the good of their own reputation as this thread shows
in some cases current AM owners are fed up with it and are considering defection to other brands,frankly that can't make for good reading for
AM if they bother to monitor this forum and that said how many other owners have already made the move to the competition without voicing
their issue or concerns.
Thanks for mentioning my Cake devouring Goat there Paddy.....umm I think we'll name it McGinty after some lost relative of yours that kept Goats
I was told recently that Aston have one of the lowest levels of brand loyalty in terms of how many owners would buy another. Ca't substantiate the source, but the fact are appropriate to me.Your professional view says it all really,its probably getting worse,sadly.
Some one needs to take the Bull or in this case Goat by the horns and get it sorted for the good of their own reputation as this thread shows
in some cases current AM owners are fed up with it and are considering defection to other brands,frankly that can't make for good reading for
AM if they bother to monitor this forum and that said how many other owners have already made the move to the competition without voicing
their issue or concerns.
Thanks for mentioning my Cake devouring Goat there Paddy.....umm I think we'll name it McGinty after some lost relative of yours that kept Goats
Such a pity
drmw said:
I was told recently that Aston have one of the lowest levels of brand loyalty in terms of how many owners would buy another. Ca't substantiate the source, but the fact are appropriate to me.
Such a pity
David,Such a pity
Such a pity indeed,all the more reason to look after repeat offenders like myself and the many more that don't just appear on here.
I bet the 63 is a bit of a technological tour de force after the Aston what............enjoy.
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