F-Type: Well, Now I've Seen Everything...
Discussion
pb1695 said:
Whilst the overall weight has an impact on performance and handling, it is too easy to get hung up on this as the single biggest factor. The placement of the weight is equally if not more important.
quite. the aston effectively has the weight entirely between it's axles and has very short overhangs. the jag has longer overhangs and IIRC, more of the engine in front of the front axle (the Aston has none)I'd like to be clear - I like the design of the Jag, lots of people like the way it drives, I'm not suggesting it's a bad car and I certainly think it's a car that will sell well and satisfy it's owners. I just think it could have been so much more
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Greenslade said:
Wasn't the XJ220 engine a V8 with 2 cylinders lopped off ? Nothing new going on then really. Maybe they will go one step further and bring out an economy V4.
Lopping 2 cylinders off a V8 is fine, but NOT lopping the cylinders off as in the Jag V6 isn't. See here...
Edited by DB9VolanteDriver on Tuesday 3rd December 14:39
Yee Haa!
I'm sure the block casting is unique, and the crankshaft would have to be - but think of all the things that do not need changing in the body and under bonnet architecture (and I'm not taking about exterior body panels). This is a quickish fix to an engine line-up without a gasoline V6, it will be relatively low volume and has much commonality of external and internal parts.
john ryan said:
I'm sure the block casting is unique, and the crankshaft would have to be - but think of all the things that do not need changing in the body and under bonnet architecture (and I'm not taking about exterior body panels). This is a quickish fix to an engine line-up without a gasoline V6, it will be relatively low volume and has much commonality of external and internal parts.
If Aston just blanked off 4 cylinders from the V12 to make a V8 there would be outrage. And I suspect there is far less demand for a V8 Aston than there is for a V6 Jag...Since it's the F type in the eyes of most people it can do no wrong
It's too heavy, was designed on the wrong platform and has a GT gearbox when it's trying to be a sports car.
George29 said:
If Aston just blanked off 4 cylinders from the V12 to make a V8 there would be outrage. And I suspect there is far less demand for a V8 Aston than there is for a V6 Jag...
Since it's the F type in the eyes of most people it can do no wrong
It's too heavy, was designed on the wrong platform and has a GT gearbox when it's trying to be a sports car.
I'm not one for flappy paddles, but as far as the F-Type slush box goes it's rather brilliant. Since it's the F type in the eyes of most people it can do no wrong
It's too heavy, was designed on the wrong platform and has a GT gearbox when it's trying to be a sports car.
George29 said:
If Aston just blanked off 4 cylinders from the V12 to make a V8 there would be outrage. And I suspect there is far less demand for a V8 Aston than there is for a V6 Jag...
Since it's the F type in the eyes of most people it can do no wrong
It's too heavy, was designed on the wrong platform and has a GT gearbox when it's trying to be a sports car.
George,I do not know if you have driven one, but every customer that has tried ours either individually or back to back with some pretty impressive rivals on our day trips has been blown away with the ability of this car. Since it's the F type in the eyes of most people it can do no wrong
It's too heavy, was designed on the wrong platform and has a GT gearbox when it's trying to be a sports car.
It is certainly not a GT and is very definitely a Sports car, although it is not a stripped down track car like a GT3 (which it is not trying to be). It is also comfortable enough to cover long distances.
The F Type has the usual positive Jaguar trait of working with the driver to make progress whilst being fun and very chuckable. Controlled oversteer is easy to dial in, but tidy entry and exit with a nice neutral balance is also on offer. The Gearbox is extremely rapid and subjectively feels as quick as most other good DSG / MCT gearboxes.
I am sure a lighter stripped down version will come along in the future, but that model will probably be a niche within a niche. Compared to a Porsche 991 911 and a Boxster / Cayman, it is relatively heavy, but compared to most of it's peers it is average. I believe Jaguar are in the process of launching an entirely new platform architecture that will form the basis of the new entry level car, SUV, XK range, next generation XF and XJ and undoubtedly the F Type replacement.
Despite being launched before the new platform is ready, on the road, it does not feel heavy, and the weight distribution seems well judged as there is no noticeable moment of polar inertia which signifies the weight is well contained within the chassis.
All in all, the car does not feel like it is on the wrong platform with the wrong gearbox.
ps. I disagree that to most people it can do no wrong, judging by the many negative(incorrect IMO) points of view on this and other forums, I think it is fair to say this car polarises opinion.
pb1695 said:
The F type Convertible is 1597 KG, V6S 1614KG and the V8 S is 1665 KG. The Aston V8 Roadster is 1690 KG, the V12 Roadster is 1760 KG, the V12S Coupe is estimated to be 1665KG.
This is very interesting. I nearly put my book of train numbers down. What would these figures be in Pounds, Hundredweights and Tons? - 
The concept Vantage was unveiled in 2003.
Ten, yes 10 years later, people still stand in wonder when looking at the body shape.
Whilst admiring my car, nobody yet has said, "Wonderful, but a shame that it is too heavy".
They just ask to join the ride list.
I love it when I see "F Type" on the Aston forum more replies than on the Jag forum.
As an ex AM owner of some 5 years I would suggest that if you have not tried the F Type give it a go you will be suprised on the handling.
I am hoping that early 2014 AM launch an updated Vantage and then I may not be thinking of buying an F type.
To keep this going at least the F type has an all aluminium body (boot excluded for the sat nav/dab radio aerial) and two red wine bottle holders under the bonnet (V6 only) and not composite wings and doors as on the Vantage.
As an ex AM owner of some 5 years I would suggest that if you have not tried the F Type give it a go you will be suprised on the handling.
I am hoping that early 2014 AM launch an updated Vantage and then I may not be thinking of buying an F type.
To keep this going at least the F type has an all aluminium body (boot excluded for the sat nav/dab radio aerial) and two red wine bottle holders under the bonnet (V6 only) and not composite wings and doors as on the Vantage.
George29 said:
michael gould said:
Let's face it ....nobody wants to go to the school reunion and have to admit they drive a Jag ! It's almost as bad as asking for a pint of larger with a black current top
I imagine, since you're from Liverpool, that most at your reunion will ask for White Lightning etc? 
SHIFTY said:
I love it when I see "F Type" on the Aston forum more replies than on the Jag forum.
As an ex AM owner of some 5 years I would suggest that if you have not tried the F Type give it a go you will be suprised on the handling.
I am hoping that early 2014 AM launch an updated Vantage and then I may not be thinking of buying an F type.
To keep this going at least the F type has an all aluminium body (boot excluded for the sat nav/dab radio aerial) and two red wine bottle holders under the bonnet (V6 only) and not composite wings and doors as on the Vantage.
I drove the F-Type V6S and the V8S, and like them a lot. I'm keeping my V8V. It was an easy decision.As an ex AM owner of some 5 years I would suggest that if you have not tried the F Type give it a go you will be suprised on the handling.
I am hoping that early 2014 AM launch an updated Vantage and then I may not be thinking of buying an F type.
To keep this going at least the F type has an all aluminium body (boot excluded for the sat nav/dab radio aerial) and two red wine bottle holders under the bonnet (V6 only) and not composite wings and doors as on the Vantage.
The front wings on the Aston are composite. The doors are alloy.
When I looked under the bonnet/hood of the F-Type V6S I wondered why the engine was mounted as far forward as it was. The front of the engine appeared to be just as far forward as in the V8S, and there seemed to be a lot of empty wasted space behind the engine (I didn't look deeply enough, apparently). I asked a Jaguar representative (this was at an introductory event for the car, with engineers present) why they didn't take advantage of the shorter length of the V6 and mount it farther rearward. He said he had no idea...
I don't care how effective a solution this might be -- it smacks of cost-cutting, and it really turns me off.
I don't care how effective a solution this might be -- it smacks of cost-cutting, and it really turns me off.
Speedraser said:
When I looked under the bonnet/hood of the F-Type V6S I wondered why the engine was mounted as far forward as it was. The front of the engine appeared to be just as far forward as in the V8S, and there seemed to be a lot of empty wasted space behind the engine (I didn't look deeply enough, apparently). I asked a Jaguar representative (this was at an introductory event for the car, with engineers present) why they didn't take advantage of the shorter length of the V6 and mount it farther rearward. He said he had no idea...
I don't care how effective a solution this might be -- it smacks of cost-cutting, and it really turns me off.
The engine will be positioned to ensure the weight distribution is even - the V6 has a 50 / 50 split, if the engine was further back the distribution would be uneven and would not be optimal. The V8 has a 51 / 49 split, which is also close to perfect. As I mentioned above, the position will also be to ensure a low centre of gravity and that the weight is as close to the centre as possible to reduce the polar inertia as the car turns. The crash structures and need to ensure that in the event of a crash, the engine will push back and down below the passenger cell will play a part. I don't care how effective a solution this might be -- it smacks of cost-cutting, and it really turns me off.
Every manufacturer makes compromises to contain costs, bearing in mind the price diffierence between the F Type and other rivals such as the Aston V8V, 911, R8 etc, there has to be some compromise in terms of how far you can go.
I am sure Jaguar could have produced a car as light as the 911, with the hand crafted materials and trim of the Aston and with bespoke 6 & 8 Cylinder engines, but the price would then have to be even higher and they probably assumed the Jaguar brand cannot stretch that far yet. They were a long way down the development path of the CX75 which would have rivalled the 918, P1 etc. but Jaguar admitted that they could not push the brand to sell cars at that sort of price particulalrly in the current economic climate - a real shame as I think it looked stunning and showed the strength of thier engineering abilities.
pb1695 said:
Every manufacturer makes compromises to contain costs, bearing in mind the price diffierence between the F Type and other rivals such as the Aston V8V, 911, R8 etc, there has to be some compromise in terms of how far you can go.
I'd say none of those are really rivals. More like the Boxster, SLK AMG, TT-RS etc. V8Driver said:
Did everyone miss my post? The V8 block with two cylinders 'blanked in', was a prototype/pre production model, the production F Type V6, has a proper V6. This has come from someone who works on F Type development at JLR HQ.
Below is all I could find, though not from a Jaguar source but on Wikipedia! AJ126 is the name of the V6."The AJ126 Petrol engine is a liquid cooled V6 unit featuring direct fuel injection, four overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder."
"The main structural components of the engine are all manufactured from aluminum alloy. The engine is built around a very stiff, lightweight, enclosed V, deep skirt cylinder block. A structural windage tray is bolted to the bottom of the cylinder block to further improve the block stiffness, minimize NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) and help reduce oil foaming. To further enhance the stiffness of the lower engine structure, a heavily ribbed sump body is installed. The sump body also helps to reduce engine noise."
"The engine uses a Bosch high pressure direct injection fuel system with fuel pressure provided by two, cam driven high pressure pumps which are driven by a dedicated camshaft. The high pressure pumps supply the fuel rails which in turn supply the three injectors for that bank with fuel at a controlled pressure."
"The four camshafts incorporate VCT (variable camshaft timing). VCT allows the timing of the intake and exhaust valves to be adjusted independently of each other. The VCT system is controlled by the Bosch ECM (engine control module) using information from CMP (camshaft position) sensors."
"The supercharger is located in the 'vee' of the engine and is driven from the crankshaft by a dedicated secondary drive belt."
"The engine meets EU5 emission regulations in Europe and Rest of World (ROW) and ULEV 70 emission regulations in North American Specification (NAS) markets."
"The direct fuel injection system, advanced piston and combustion chamber design and the supercharger provide improved fuel consumption and emissions."
"The AJ126 V6 is basically an AJ133 V8 engine that has 2 less cylinders and is made on the same production line as the AJ133. It shares a very similar block as the supercharged V8 AJ133, with some unique features such as reduced bore size. Much the same story with the cylinder heads. The engine features a balance shaft to drive the oil pump and balance the crankshaft."
I believe you are correct in that the V6 is based on the V8 and whilst the engine block is similar, it is reduced rather than blanked. I will consult with a contact at JLR and when I know for certain I will update.
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