Gen 4 VH and lightweight seats on Vantage V12S

[SFO]

Extract from AML site:

"AN ARCHITECTURAL PHILOSOPHY
Gen4 VH architecture, the latest evolution of our world-renowned and admired construction philosophy. Lightweight aluminium is joined with epoxy resin used in aerospace engineering. Gen4 - specifically engineered for V12 Vantage S - is more rigid than ever before. Holding the all new AM28 engine within the smallest Aston Martin chassis, our VH architecture has delivered again - flexibility, performance, the core to a pure driving experience."

Does this mean that other Vantages have the 'old' VH architecture. How different/better/stronger/lighter is Gen 4 VH?

When will AML roll out Gen 4 VH to other Vantages?

Makes no sense to have 2 different architectures for the same car?


Extract on Lightweight seats:
"LIGHTWEIGHT SEATS
V12 Vantage S introduces re-engineered lightweight seats. An advanced carbon-fibre and Kevlar composite structure saves 17kg, increasing power to weight. Clothed in alcantara or leather with an exposed carbon-fibre rear panel a distinctive studded Aston Martin wings badge is also included for a unique finish."

Any one know what the improvements are?

Are these re-engineered lightweight seats fitted on other Vantages (for example on N430, where it is standard)?

Similarly, makes no sense to have 2 kinds of lightweight seats for V12 and V8 ...

[jonby]

SFO said:

Extract from AML site:

"AN ARCHITECTURAL PHILOSOPHY
Gen4 VH architecture, the latest evolution of our world-renowned and admired construction philosophy. Lightweight aluminium is joined with epoxy resin used in aerospace engineering. Gen4 - specifically engineered for V12 Vantage S - is more rigid than ever before. Holding the all new AM28 engine within the smallest Aston Martin chassis, our VH architecture has delivered again - flexibility, performance, the core to a pure driving experience."

Does this mean that other Vantages have the 'old' VH architecture. How different/better/stronger/lighter is Gen 4 VH?

When will AML roll out Gen 4 VH to other Vantages?

Makes no sense to have 2 different architectures for the same car?


Extract on Lightweight seats:
"LIGHTWEIGHT SEATS
V12 Vantage S introduces re-engineered lightweight seats. An advanced carbon-fibre and Kevlar composite structure saves 17kg, increasing power to weight. Clothed in alcantara or leather with an exposed carbon-fibre rear panel a distinctive studded Aston Martin wings badge is also included for a unique finish."

Any one know what the improvements are?

Are these re-engineered lightweight seats fitted on other Vantages (for example on N430, where it is standard)?

Similarly, makes no sense to have 2 kinds of lightweight seats for V12 and V8 ...

I suspect you will find that the weight saving referred to is over standard seats, not in comparison to 'old' style lightweights. Main difference appears to be fabric coverings, seams, etc i.e. cosmetic, not structural

[AdamV12V]

Yup, the "new" lightweight seats are the same as before but with extra padding for comfort. I personally didn't think they were any better, as the gains in padding were offset in a loss of room to move around. Personal choice, but the overall difference isn't that much really. I don't know for sure, but I would expect them to be the same if fitted to any new build cars going forward.

[mikey k]

jonby said:

SFO said:

Extract from AML site:

"AN ARCHITECTURAL PHILOSOPHY
Gen4 VH architecture, the latest evolution of our world-renowned and admired construction philosophy. Lightweight aluminium is joined with epoxy resin used in aerospace engineering. Gen4 - specifically engineered for V12 Vantage S - is more rigid than ever before. Holding the all new AM28 engine within the smallest Aston Martin chassis, our VH architecture has delivered again - flexibility, performance, the core to a pure driving experience."

Does this mean that other Vantages have the 'old' VH architecture. How different/better/stronger/lighter is Gen 4 VH?

When will AML roll out Gen 4 VH to other Vantages?

Makes no sense to have 2 different architectures for the same car?


Extract on Lightweight seats:
"LIGHTWEIGHT SEATS
V12 Vantage S introduces re-engineered lightweight seats. An advanced carbon-fibre and Kevlar composite structure saves 17kg, increasing power to weight. Clothed in alcantara or leather with an exposed carbon-fibre rear panel a distinctive studded Aston Martin wings badge is also included for a unique finish."

Any one know what the improvements are?

Are these re-engineered lightweight seats fitted on other Vantages (for example on N430, where it is standard)?

Similarly, makes no sense to have 2 kinds of lightweight seats for V12 and V8 ...

I suspect you will find that the weight saving referred to is over standard seats, not in comparison to 'old' style lightweights. Main difference appears to be fabric coverings, seams, etc i.e. cosmetic, not structural

Gen4 is the evolution of VH2 (Vantage) platform to fit the revised V12 engine etc
The "new" seats are the same molding with revised padding and covers

[Jon39]

SFO said:

Does this mean that other Vantages have the 'old' VH architecture. How different/better/stronger/lighter is Gen 4 VH?

When will AML roll out Gen 4 VH to other Vantages?

Makes no sense to have 2 different architectures for the same car?

There is a good film that help to understand how the 'tub' is constructed. Unfortunately I am away from my PC now, so cannot provide the link.

Picture a collection of alloy extrusions. These are placed in a movable rack, then a computerised sensor system checks all the correct parts are present for the particular car to be built. It could be any of the Vantage or DB9 models. I would guess that the V12S has some additional, or differently shaped alloy extrusion parts, to increase the 'tub' strength, and that particular design is called VH4. The whole process is very clever and flexible, so that different 'tubs' can be constructed one after another.

All the parts for one 'tub' move along the conveyor system and are bonded / riveted together. Whether every 'tub' is the same, or every one is different, would make no difference to production efficiency.

Although this type of variable 'Architecture' has been used by Aston Martin for a decade (I think it was previously in use for the Lotus Elise), some of the big manufacturers are only now announcing the adoption of similar arrangements. Claiming of course that it is something new and wonderful.

When you read journalist comments about the 'ageing VH chassis', it is nonsense.

Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 17th April 22:21

[AndyBrew]

I would like to watch that video if you get 5 minutes to post a link

[Jon39]

AndyBrew said:

I would like to watch that video if you get 5 minutes to post a link

Yes.

It will be a few days before I can see the details.

[Grant3]

SFO, evolutionary benefits are definitely useful but I wouldn't sweat the fine detail so much otherwise you will never buy that lovely new Aston... which you could be enjoying now

Aston use gen-4 as something of a generic term, it encompasses the new 3-stage dampers, 3rd gen CCM brakes etc as well as core bodyshell changes. A.M. have improved their construction techniques over the years and part of the gen-4 hype simply refers to the latest construction and bonding methods, which have evolved each year for all the models including V8 Vantage. For example NVH was improved on V8 Vantage for the 14MY and this new sound proofing was applied to the V12 S. There are variances between all the gen-4 body shells, e.g. the Vanquish has Carbon Fibre components behind the rear bulkhead that don't feature on the other models, one of the biggest recent increases in body shell rigidity was achieve via the latest AM11 engine brace set-up introduced on Vanquish and also on the new DB9 and Rapide S, but I don't believe it is on the V12S for space reasons. The biggest evolutionary steps taken by the V12S were not bodyshell related, rather the new Bosch engine management and upgraded AM28 engine, 3-Stage adaptive damping and Sportshift III, it also has more direct steering with Servotronic assistance that isn't on the other Vantage models, which is probably why you felt a difference on your test drive. As the guys have said the base seats are the same, but the styling/padding is new.

Now get out there and buy that new Aston, the factory needs it and you will (hopefully) enjoy the whole experience

[SFO]

Grant3 said:

SFO, evolutionary benefits are definitely useful but I wouldn't sweat the fine detail so much otherwise you will never buy that lovely new Aston... which you could be enjoying now

Aston use gen-4 as something of a generic term, it encompasses the new 3-stage dampers, 3rd gen CCM brakes etc as well as core bodyshell changes. A.M. have improved their construction techniques over the years and part of the gen-4 hype simply refers to the latest construction and bonding methods, which have evolved each year for all the models including V8 Vantage. For example NVH was improved on V8 Vantage for the 14MY and this new sound proofing was applied to the V12 S. There are variances between all the gen-4 body shells, e.g. the Vanquish has Carbon Fibre components behind the rear bulkhead that don't feature on the other models, one of the biggest recent increases in body shell rigidity was achieve via the latest AM11 engine brace set-up introduced on Vanquish and also on the new DB9 and Rapide S, but I don't believe it is on the V12S for space reasons. The biggest evolutionary steps taken by the V12S were not bodyshell related, rather the new Bosch engine management and upgraded AM28 engine, 3-Stage adaptive damping and Sportshift III, it also has more direct steering with Servotronic assistance that isn't on the other Vantage models, which is probably why you felt a difference on your test drive. As the guys have said the base seats are the same, but the styling/padding is new.

Now get out there and buy that new Aston, the factory needs it and you will (hopefully) enjoy the whole experience

very informative and helpful, thanks.

I was blown away by the V12S .. the steering is superb, perfectly weighted with no slack and wonderfully accurate. Sensational feel. Damping also similarly fabulous; focussed, sporty, taut and yet compliant. On comfort mode over bumpy B roads, really helps with traction and control.

gearbox is impressive, as it downshifts like machine gun fire on really hard braking with left paddle held. upshifts are more challenged, especially on full bore runs. not that I have driven many automated manuals, but this is one of the best, if not the best.

I was also surprised how nimble and agile the car felt; more so than a V8 vantage or S. I have not driven any other V12 sports car, but the V12S is a truly remarkable pocket rocket. I'd expected it to be slightly unwieldy and lardy, it was nothing of the sort.

noise is also very well supressed, with only a slight whistle at high speeds just ahead of the A pillar. compared to my GT3, there is hardly any tyre roar and noise. this of course means the exhaust is so much more present and clear. You really do not need a sound system

I loved the way the back end squats down slightly and shoots off when you extend your right foot to max position. hugely, hugely entertaining.

the ceramics are utterly stunning, full of feel, easy to modulate and with sufficient travel to give you a greater range of control and feel. Leagues ahead of the PCCBs on my 997.2 GT3.

the 'sport' button should be default on instead of off .. it transforms the car from national standard to Olympic greatness.

best of all, people move out of the way when the see a V12S approaching fast

I was quite bewitched by the whole half day Millbrook experience.

Trouble is, I am now more "confused" than ever. The only thing I am not confused about, having driven V12Ss with standard and lightweight seats, is that lightweight seats are a must have for me.

Edited by SFO on Friday 18th April 14:19

[Grant3]

No confusion Sean, clearly the V12S is a more exciting and dynamic package, but it is at a different price point to the V8 cars, so you need to decide what your budget is. I don't agree with regards to the Sport button, sometimes (in the wet/winter for example) the more adjustable throttle response is better. Anyway stop making excuses, sell the kidney and order the V12S

Edited by Grant3 on Friday 18th April 15:14

[SFO]

Grant3 said:

No confusion Sean, clearly the V12S is a more exciting and dynamic package, but it is at a different price point to the V8 cars, so you need to decide what your budget is. I don't agree with regards to the Sport button, sometimes (in the wet/winter for example) the more adjustable throttle response is better. Anyway stop making excuses, sell the kidney and order the V12S

Edited by Grant3 on Friday 18th April 15:14

the pleasure is in the indecision

[Jon1967x]

SFO said:

the pleasure is in the indecision

There was a program, objects of desire I think it was called, and they interviewed mark knopfler. He talked about a white Marshall amp he'd always wanted but had never bought. When quizzed he said he was more in love with the ides of wanting it than he was owning it. I understood exactly what he meant.

Just don't do what he did, I didn't although I nearly did and I spent 20k more than I intended which almost makes it feel more special and I've not regretted it at all. Oh and dont let the V12 guys tell you that's the answer, the V8VS is the best of all world in my opinion

[SFO]

Jon1967x said:

Oh and dont let the V12 guys tell you that's the answer, the V8VS is the best of all world in my opinion

if price was not a factor, V12 is the answer to ALL questions