V8 Vantage 200 Cell Cats Problem *images Below

[CHJ22]

Hello Chaps,

Not sure if this is the right place to be posting so please forgive me if I'm in the wrong section.

I bought a 2007 V8 Vantage last week and love it to bits.

I've read the many topics about how easy it is to increase power to the underpowered 4.3 V8V with a full stainless exhaust and 200 cell cats, so on Friday I bought some unbranded / custom cell cats from a exhaust maker and on Saturday booked the car into my local 'prestige' car garage to have them fitted.

Long story short the garage says they won't fit (kindly charged me 4 hours labor) the company who supplied them says they do ... *sigh

So I've got some pictures below, can anyone help me? I need to establish who is wrong ... do you think the cats fit or have I been had by the garage?

I have absolutely no mechanical knowledge so any help or comment much is appreciated.

Thanks

CJ

[spikeyhead]

I'm not an expert, but every time I've gone near any exhaust there's been a bit of pushing and shoving to get them to fit. That to me looks close enough that someone skilled in the art could make it fit. It also looks to me that they should have been closer out of the box. Can you take the car to where you bought the cats from, or get them to recommend a fitter? If you bought them to be delivered to you, then the distance selling regulations apply and you can return them for a full refund without any reason.

[CHJ22]

spikeyhead said:

I'm not an expert, but every time I've gone near any exhaust there's been a bit of pushing and shoving to get them to fit. That to me looks close enough that someone skilled in the art could make it fit. It also looks to me that they should have been closer out of the box. Can you take the car to where you bought the cats from, or get them to recommend a fitter? If you bought them to be delivered to you, then the distance selling regulations apply and you can return them for a full refund without any reason.

Many thanks for the quick reply. I bought the cats from a company in Surrey and I'm in Yorkshire so too far to go really, I do know of some exhaust fitters fairly local but I'm trying to be 100% sure that they will be a able to make them work without any leaks etc otherwise I'll be left with another labor bill. As you suggest I may have to send them back as they were advised to be 'plug n play' & bolt on and this clearly isn't the case.

I naively thought that this would be a 45 minute bolt on job ... in hindsight I should have just gone for a new rear back box instead!

[X7LDA]

Try the Aston Martin section of PH - it's further down under Other Marques. Will have a lot of guys who have installed cats / exhausts (I did on one of mine however have since sold it).

What was the company? TopGear? A manufacturor will help identify if anyone has got them / fitted them.

Be prepared for someone to recommend Bamford Rose....

[CHJ22]

Yeah I've heard about Bamford Rose they seem to get fantastic reviews but the are a tad too far for me to be honest. I bought the cell cats from a company called Demand Engineering in Surrey ... nice people but that gap where the two ends meet looks vast! X7LDA, Can you remember if yours looked the same?

[ZeusF]

I don't want to put a downer on it but one thing is for sure, if you got them from an aston place like RSC they would have fitted for sure, and given power.
Ive seen countless systems not fit, even from reputable companies and the risks and costs are too high really, I'm sure your 4 hours were the wrong side of £200!

[voicey]

What's the joint like at the other end? If it's sleeved it might be able to be edged back but if it is a flange then those are not the correct size.

Exhausts should fit properly without any pushing or shoving. The thermal expansion is quite high - if there's any sort of tension in the system you risk something cracking.

[X7LDA]

Yes mine were longer than that from memory...

Pictures here of the BR cats - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=978...

Yours don't appear to fit I'm afraid. But would be interesting if any of the other Aston owners have used that company. As I say, try posting there.

[divetheworld]

Saw those on fleabay, so you bought them. .
Looking at their website and faceache page, they make manifolds and cats for someone familiar.

[davidexige]

I've just measured the overall length of a standard cat at 45.4 cm, so if you can measure the length of your new ones you should be able to workout if they will fit or not. On a side note it took about an hour and a half to swop out the cats myself, if your mechanically minded it's quite an easy job for the home mechanic.

[V8V Pete]

CHJ22 said:

I've read the many topics about how easy it is to increase power to the underpowered 4.3 V8V with a full stainless exhaust and 200 cell cats

Don't want to put a downer on things but my understanding is that the vast majority of the power gains are from fitting decent exhaust manifolds which are rather pricey. Others may be able to comment on the specific gains possible from only changing the cats. Don't think the back box makes any significant difference other than sound.

[Neil1300r]

CHJ22 said:

Hello Chaps,

Not sure if this is the right place to be posting so please forgive me if I'm in the wrong section.

I bought a 2007 V8 Vantage last week and love it to bits.

I've read the many topics about how easy it is to increase power to the underpowered 4.3 V8V with a full stainless exhaust and 200 cell cats, so on Friday I bought some unbranded / custom cell cats from a exhaust maker and on Saturday booked the car into my local 'prestige' car garage to have them fitted.

Long story short the garage says they won't fit (kindly charged me 4 hours labor) the company who supplied them says they do ... *sigh

So I've got some pictures below, can anyone help me? I need to establish who is wrong ... do you think the cats fit or have I been had by the garage?

I have absolutely no mechanical knowledge so any help or comment much is appreciated.

Thanks

CJ

Why do you think cats on their own will increase power?
Not being mechanically minded even I can see they wont it, not just in length but at the joint, as the flange from the downpipe is never going to fit over the new cat.

[Brakke]

Neil1300r said:

Why do you think cats on their own will increase power?

well they do add power, its around 10hp. All companies admit it adds power, the amount varie; BR says it will add around 10,5 hp, RSC says something stupid like 25 hp.
The original cats are 600 cell cats which restrict the air flow heavily, adding 200 cell allows for better flow and backpressure which leads to slight increase in power.
The best about the 200 cell i think is the increase in throttle response and the sound, the 10hp is not noticable to be honest.

To OP, best bet is indeed to measure the length of the new cats, they need to be the same lenght as your standard cats
if not, cheapest and easiest way to get it fixed is to cut the new cells at the end andd let someone else weld in a 15-20mm ring with the right diameter. Shouldnt take more than 1 hour of work to cut and weld it in.

best of luck
Brakke

[V8V Pete]

Brakke said:

cheapest and easiest way to get it fixed is to cut the new cells at the end andd let someone else weld in a 15-20mm ring with the right diameter. Shouldnt take more than 1 hour of work to cut and weld it in.

Brakke

Don't think so as they may fracture and you would have invalidated any warranty you may have on them. I would send them back, get a full refund and go somewhere that knows what they're doing and can give you accurate advise on what modifications will give you what power increases. Now where could that be……………….?

[Neil1300r]

Brakke said:

...the 10hp is not noticable to be honest.

Hence the question to the OP. He started off saying a full exhaust will add power thn just did the cats. Or didn't as the photso show

[Brakke]

V8V Pete said:

Don't think so as they may fracture and you would have invalidated any warranty you may have on them. I would send them back, get a full refund and go somewhere that knows what they're doing and can give you accurate advise on what modifications will give you what power increases. Now where could that be……………….?

youre right about the warranty thing...dont think it would fracture however, there is no stress on those parts whatsoever, yes it gets hot but not to a point it could fracture a good weld.
but indeed, easiest thing it send them back, but if the OP needs to have them fitted pronto-tonto that would be an easy fix.

[Brakke]

Neil1300r said:

Hence the question to the OP. He started off saying a full exhaust will add power thn just did the cats. Or didn't as the photso show

I've read the many topics about how easy it is to increase power to the underpowered 4.3 V8V with a full stainless exhaust and 200 cell cats, so on Friday I bought some unbranded / custom cell cats from a exhaust maker and on Saturday booked the car into my local 'prestige' car garage to have them fitted.

i reckon he confirms to understand there are 2 easy options of increasing power: 1- full exhaust ow 2- 200 cell cats
then goes and decides for installing the cats only....

[Laser Sag]

According to one of the well known AM specialists adding the 200 cell cats will give an increase of around 10 BHP.
Would assume that if the cats were going to give more of an uplift then they would say so as they would be likely to get more business out of it.
I had just the cats done with an airbox mod and ECU alteration to cover the extra flow, personally I went for it for the improved(to me)sound while retaining the ability to have the exhaust in loud or quiet modes as needed.
Is there an improvement in performance? not that I can tell. It makes it sound as if its quicker but in reality I think that is all in the mind.
I dare say if you go for the manifolds as well to get an extra 30/40 BHP then you might be able to feel the difference. I'm happy with the exhaust note change so will leave it there for the moment.

[bogie]

I doubt you will notice the increase in power from the cats alone ...I know I cant tell 10 or 20bhp difference in a 1.6 ton 380bhp car ...

I reckon you need at least 40bhp to notice the difference and the only way to get that is to replace the manifolds ...sure the cats and backbox help a bit, as do new air filters, but most of the gain is to be had in the manifolds

Maybe you can return the cats as unfit for purpose as they sure dont look to fit in your picture above....

[CHJ22]

Many thanks for all the comments / advice.

I've measured the cats at 44.8cm so they are only a tiny bit shorter than standard (thanks for the measurement David) but obliviously enough to cause a problem.

Brakke many thanks for the suggestion of cut & weld I may end up doing this if I keep them ... currently waiting for an email back off the company I bought them from so will keep you updated.

Neil it was always my intention to fit cell cats first for an increase in noise levels any gain in BHP is a welcome by product... I suspect a back box and cell cats will be a bit too noisy for what I'm after, so I want to see how I get on with the cats first.

I should know by now buy cheap buy twice.