Carbon Ceramic brake life

[BravoV8V]

Byteme said:

So just post evidence of the "bedding-in procedure" along with all of the other proof of your daft allegations! Utter, complete BS!

I've seen "experts" post complete crap but the last half of your final paragraph is laughable!

Hmmm, you seem like a pleasant chap. Been at the grog again, have we?

[roughrider]

Byteme said:

So just post evidence of the "bedding-in procedure" along with all of the other proof of your daft allegations! Utter, complete BS!

I've seen "experts" post complete crap but the last half of your final paragraph is laughable!

Oh dear!!! Ex-cop? Inferiority complex? Likes to attack on a forum after a few drinkies. The bedding-in procedure is as described. He is an expert. Find another forum, you're out of your depth..................

[tonyhall38]

Byteme
Perhaps you could elaborate on your statement.....always good to have a different view on things...

[cayman-black]

Strange as i thought Bamford Mike was the expert here.
Good info given, many thanks.

[cayman-black]

Impasse said:

Note to self: ensure that you never buy a car with carbon ceramic brakes. They seem to fragile and too expensive to be worthwhile.

Difficult if you want a v12 AM.

[Jon1967x]

BamfordMike said:

If worn out third pad set, bearing in mind worries of disc vanishing into a cloud of dust is something even on race discs worn well beyond limit is something i have never heard of (yet), get a weight check before continuing with the discs.

You don't follow motorsport then..

http://formulafreak.kinja.com/a-bit-of-background-...

BamfordMike said:

My last piece of advice before i have pretty much covered all on the subject is only buy a disc which is bedded-in to a pad set. Up until recently the factory sold a disc separate / which had not been bedded-in to a pad, it is now only possible to buy a disc which comes with bedded-in pad set. The bedding-in procedure requires a drive of approx 60 kilometers with many full on the ABS stops from 100mph down to a dead stop. I would imagine that because of a dealer principal not wanting to carry the liability of a)his technicians driving those conditions b)releasing a car with poor braking performance if the cycle wasn't run perfectly, this call was made. So be aware of discs for sale on the open market at cheap price.

How do you buy new pads if the disc needs to be bedded into a pad?

If the disc needs preparing before use, fair enough, but they should just do this, and a new set of pads when changing a disc also sounds sensible, but there seems to be a bit of witchcraft.

The marginal improvement that these discs bring (in terms of both the opportunity to use the full potential safely and then the need for the extra ability they offer) is pretty slim in my experience and certainly doesn't outweigh the price of the downsides. Having had a loan db9.2 for a few weeks with them, in the cold and wet (ie when first setting off) they were far from great and I set off from my house far more often than I drive to the limit. I'll rephrase the last bit.. I can drive close to the braking limit quite often, usually determined by tyre grip and a lot less to do with brakes, and part of the fun is doing this when safe to do so - all they do is move that point.

I'm happy to use steel brakes and not worry about cleaning wheels or a tyre monkey cathcing them and rendering them dangerous.

[BamfordMike]

Byteme said:

They're not!

Some however make their living suggesting you're a pussy if you don't need brake pad changes at every/every other service.

wear rates are given to inform prospective owners the likely wear rates , and depending on driving style current owners a heads up to maintenance. Its called informing folk on a subject that prior to now has been little discussed. There is a choice of retailers to effect repairs in uk, and because this forum is global, the info could help somebody in Australia who is unlikely to travel to UK for a pad swap.

[BamfordMike]

Byteme said:

So just post evidence of the "bedding-in procedure" along with all of the other proof of your daft allegations! Utter, complete BS!

I've seen "experts" post complete crap but the last half of your final paragraph is laughable!

no, put your money where your mouth is and if you disagree with me, today so you can't ask an insider, post up the bed-in cycle.

fact- cant buy disc separate from pad, if not because a tricky bed-in cycle you list the reasons why!

if folk disagree on points all that is needed is a comment 'agree to disagree', the idea of a forum is that based on sound reasoning (which you have never displayed), after a load of different angles are put across readers can make up their own minds.

[BamfordMike]

Jon1967x said:

BamfordMike said:

How do you buy new pads if the disc needs to be bedded into a pad?

If the disc needs preparing before use, fair enough, but they should just do this, and a new set of pads when changing a disc also sounds sensible, but there seems to be a bit of witchcraft.

I'm happy to use steel brakes and not worry about cleaning wheels or a tyre monkey cathcing them and rendering them dangerous.

F1 is a mile away from road car. The last time i had a behind the scenes tour of F1 team, no matter the component on the car save for a few obvious, if it lasts 10 meters more than race distance its over engineered and probably overweight. I suppose it could happen but on road car / Aston or Aston on track, but i have never heard of it, breakage damage during transit or fitting, yes. The discs are very fragile.

a new pad set bed to disc is fairly simple, and clearly must be because a few pad sets will go life of disc.

however, no witchcraft. If you phone any franchised dealer today and ask for a pair of discs, they will say yes sir, come attached to set of pads, unless at trade price they try to get rid of stock pre bought in prior change of direction. I think this is ok because if needing new discs, pads are probably being changed too, but the make-up of cost includes the bed-in.

Bed-in of disc requires a more harsh procedure than bed-in of old disc to new pad. Essentially the brakes must encounter 'fade' for the first time in their life then be conditioned. Trying to get fade on CCM on road is tricky as anybody who drives a car with ccm knows, but i guess by now byteme has already posted up the full procedure.

the disc / pad sets are either bed-in on rig by supplier or factory. Should any of that info be wrong, I'm miss informed by my dealer, but they are normally bang-on re parts info and i think disc sale linked to pads is new news.

my comment on your last point. Yes, steel vantage S brakes are as good as / all that is needed for road compared CCM imho. The desire for CCM is all an image lead marketing thing / maker keeping pace with maker

Edited by BamfordMike on Sunday 5th October 12:41

Edited by BamfordMike on Sunday 5th October 12:44

[Byteme]

BamfordMike said:

fact- cant buy disc separate from pad, if not because a tricky bed-in cycle you list the reasons why!

Fact - This has only been a recent development. Prior to that CCM discs and pads were always supplied separately.

[BamfordMike]

Byteme said:

Fact - This has only been a recent development. Prior to that CCM discs and pads were always supplied separately.

yeah Sherlock. i know! New news is point of the discussion.

he selects reverse, stamps on pedal

[cayman-black]

Byteme said:

Fact - This has only been a recent development. Prior to that CCM discs and pads were always supplied separately.

Byteme i think this is the new way they are selling, i.e disc and pads together as BM has said.

[AstonTony]

If this thread is designed to make anyone fearful of a car with carbon ceramic discs it has done a good job. I am certainly wary of using mine as i thought the brakes would last longer than steel ones.

I know that pads etc are expensive but this scaremongering doesn't help AM one bit.

Surely there must be some good news to having carbon discs?

This has really put me off AM with ceramics

[BamfordMike]

AstonTony said:

If this thread is designed to make anyone fearful of a car with carbon ceramic discs it has done a good job. I am certainly wary of using mine as i thought the brakes would last longer than steel ones.

I know that pads etc are expensive but this scaremongering doesn't help AM one bit.

Surely there must be some good news to having carbon discs?

This has really put me off AM with ceramics

brakes are wear item , this is nothing new, and one day in the cars life will need replacing. Up until now the cars were mostly not of age / mileage where replacement was looming. Now and stands to reason because age and mileage claims consumables, perhaps replacement will become more common place.

i think the direction of selling disc with bedded-in pad shows this, because as replacement becomes more common place, more have likely encountered the difficulty of bed-in.

the matter only raises eyebrow due to high price of parts, meaning a car with ccm is consideration to make whereas steels are replaced without fuss

the knock on effect of what the facts of the matter cause is a different subject, but getting the facts out there is just to help folk on a subject which up until now has not surfaced as possible consideration , therefore i don't think the word scaremongering is correct, but it is fact of ownership of ccm car at wrong time might cause concern

[J12KJR]

Would have to agree that as the CCM shod Aston Martins come down in value it does put them within reach of those who may well have saved for a long to be able to afford. To then be hit with a repair bill that could amount to an eigth of the purchase cost would potentially put the car off the road for someone in that position.

I for one haven't taken the thread as scare mongering but more helping people go into ownership with their eyes open.

As much as I would have loved to have gone for the V12 Vantage I didn't feel that potential increased running costs would work out for me currently. I preffered to have the V8 and use it more rather than the V12 and have to limit my mileage.
We all have different depths of pocket when it comes to our cars but I think being given a heads up that a potential cost the size of a set of CCM's with pads and fitting could be in the offing on cars that were percieved to have brakes that last ages has been a good bit of advice.

[Byteme]

J12KJR said:

Would have to agree that as the CCM shod Aston Martins come down in value it does put them within reach of those who may well have saved for a long to be able to afford. To then be hit with a repair bill that could amount to an eigth of the purchase cost would potentially put the car off the road for someone in that position.

I for one haven't taken the thread as scare mongering but more helping people go into ownership with their eyes open.

As much as I would have loved to have gone for the V12 Vantage I didn't feel that potential increased running costs would work out for me currently. I preffered to have the V8 and use it more rather than the V12 and have to limit my mileage.
We all have different depths of pocket when it comes to our cars but I think being given a heads up that a potential cost the size of a set of CCM's with pads and fitting could be in the offing on cars that were percieved to have brakes that last ages has been a good bit of advice.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the cost of replacing worn CCM discs. The rate of wear on a vehicle used normally is very, very low so yes, they will last ages.

[J12KJR]

Byteme said:

I wouldn't be too concerned about the cost of replacing worn CCM discs. The rate of wear on a vehicle used normally is very, very low so yes, they will last ages.

Previously I would have thought the same but a while back one of the the AM dealers I popped into was telling me about a car they had had to replace the disks on at less than 20,000 miles. It was for a customer they had dealt with for a long while and who they considered to be relatively light on brakes.

I think that as with Tony on here its the uncertanty that bothers, with steel disks its easy to see their condition wheras the CCMs are not.

For my style of driving I don't think CCMs are necessary, I don't do track days and am not the last of the late brakers but I still like to have the knowledge passed on to me for when I may end up looking at a CCM shod car.

I would sooner be cautious and get something checked than have an unexpected bill that could run into the £10,000 area.

[tonyhall38]

My discs are going to be checked over by AM.....while it has some warrenty work done....will let you all know when I know...but I suspect I already know the answer....and it won't be expensive.....

[BamfordMike]

Byteme said:

I wouldn't be too concerned about the cost of replacing worn CCM discs. The rate of wear on a vehicle used normally is very, very low so yes, they will last ages.

normally very, very low - ages. Not the words i would want to be armed with going into purchase.

sorry if i have missed it. What's your ccm wear rate?

[Byteme]

BamfordMike said:

no, put your money where your mouth is and if you disagree with me, today so you can't ask an insider, post up the bed-in cycle.

I don't need to ask an "insider", I have the full details here so can tell you for a fact that the approved procedure doesn't involve breaking the national speed limit.