Carbon Ceramic brake life
Discussion
tonyhall38 said:
didn't know that thanks.....but would still like to know the weight of the damaged discs shown...if they were weighed at all?
The discs in question here were replaced because the owner complained of poor feel / feedback. The error state is not primarily wear (as has been explained and missed by you clearly), discs were changed due to chemical contamination destroying surface layer leading to rapid pad wear, poor performance and bad feel / feedback. The customer was advised the discs would probably go another pad set based on low mileage but the error state he complained of would not improve.
you really are showing your hand here, if you were a 16 year old at a job interview and regardless of wear / weight somebody held up the disc and said "bin or keep" and you didn't reply 'bin' based off visual surface condition, the door not job would be yours.
now you know why i go into lengthy detail explaining stuff, like the 70mph limit is there for the stupid amongst us, i try to ram the points home hoping it gets through to everybody, clearly in not doing that well enough as a straggler still doesn't know the issue at hand.
at least you can blither like no other on this forum, its just a question of how useful that is and the forum dynamics pointless blither creates.
ETA
Play nicely now or you may lose your ability to post!
Edited by Big Al. on Saturday 4th October 13:41
Impasse said:
Can they be resurfaced in the same way a cast disc can have a slight skim?
unfortunately not on ccm'sthis old practice still gets folk out the s
t on steels though, as you identify.its common to replace more steels on vanquish due to corrosion not wear, and if a surface skim gives another pad set wear because after skim thickness is enough above minimum limit then a skim is good call.
Another personal attack on myself......what hand are you talking about....left or right.....
I asked the question because after a visit to my main dealer they informed me that the discs are changed on weight....and as my car has done over 50 k the disc are due to be weighed etc.....
Your comments are not welcome and your constant bullying off putting.....and to be honest laughable....bit like yourself...
I asked the question because after a visit to my main dealer they informed me that the discs are changed on weight....and as my car has done over 50 k the disc are due to be weighed etc.....
Your comments are not welcome and your constant bullying off putting.....and to be honest laughable....bit like yourself...
BamfordMike said:
tonyhall38 said:
didn't know that thanks.....but would still like to know the weight of the damaged discs shown...if they were weighed at all?
The discs in question here were replaced because the owner complained of poor feel / feedback. The error state is not primarily wear (as has been explained and missed by you clearly), discs were changed due to chemical contamination destroying surface layer leading to rapid pad wear, poor performance and bad feel / feedback. The customer was advised the discs would probably go another pad set based on low mileage but the error state he complained of would not improve.
you really are showing your hand here, if you were a 16 year old at a job interview and regardless of wear / weight somebody held up the disc and said "bin or keep" and you didn't reply 'bin' based off visual surface condition, the door not job would be yours.
now you know why i go into lengthy detail explaining stuff, like the 70mph limit is there for the stupid amongst us, i try to ram the points home hoping it gets through to everybody, clearly in not doing that well enough as a straggler still doesn't know the issue at hand.
at least you can blither like no other on this forum, its just a question of how useful that is and the forum dynamics pointless blither creates.
ETA
Play nicely now or you may lose your ability to post!
Edited by Big Al. on Saturday 4th October 13:41
Back on the topic , which you are so keen to keep on on other posts...except this one...or when you attack me....
Above is a picture of one of my discs.....very similar to the one you posted....so you can see my question has no agenda or hidden meaning.....but unlike your customer I have no brake fade or juddering .....and the brakes feel fine....hence my question about weight....also could it not be the balancing of wheel and disc has come out of sink due to fact I had wheels changed for track day at snetterton
Was hoping for a second opinion not threats or intimidation from you.....
tonyhall38 said:
BamfordMike said:
ETA
Play nicely now or you may lose your ability to post!
Now threats.....dear oh dear....so you now run the forum.....as if you and your disciples didn't anyway.....Play nicely now or you may lose your ability to post!
Edited by Big Al. on Saturday 4th October 13:41
I suspect that the 'Play nicely' line came from Big Al's (moderator) edit.
I had never realised that the mods could edit a post like that, knew they could delete and remove posting ability.
Did make it read that Bamford Mike was becoming a mod until I read the edited by line.
Keeping things on thread if CCMs are looking like Tony's which look to be shot but are still functioning well do they need to be replaced or are they OK until some reduction in efficiency is noted.
I know I haven't got them but knowledge gained from this type of thread is very useful for the future.
Did make it read that Bamford Mike was becoming a mod until I read the edited by line.
Keeping things on thread if CCMs are looking like Tony's which look to be shot but are still functioning well do they need to be replaced or are they OK until some reduction in efficiency is noted.
I know I haven't got them but knowledge gained from this type of thread is very useful for the future.
tonyhall38 said:
Above is a picture of one of my discs.....very similar to the one you posted....so you can see my question has no agenda or hidden meaning.....but unlike your customer I have no brake fade or juddering .....and the brakes feel fine....hence my question about weight....also could it not be the balancing of wheel and disc has come out of sink due to fact I had wheels changed for track day at snetterton
Was hoping for a second opinion not threats or intimidation from you.....
As new pads are £1k then pad wear will be much higher and more expensive - I cannot comment if the disks are safe (although I expect for normal road driving they are) so some people may prefer to just change the pads more freqently than go to the expense of new disks - although mine were replaced by AM anyway.
tonyhall38 said:
The brakes are performing brilliantly .....hence the weight question.....
I presume they don't explode in a cloud of toxic shards just because of an iffy surface, so maybe the answer is to keep your wallet closed until you start to feel a problem through the pedal/seat of the pants etc.But as to your weight question: www.myfitnesspal.com
in general reply to a few comments and new pictures
As the disc wear / approach service limit, in my experience 3 things happen all at same time; disc appears less carbon / black in colour, is less of a mirror surface to touch finish and as a result (because of the rough surface) pads wear more rapidly than driving style perhaps should. So if any of these happen, at next pad set change get garage to check weight before continuing with new pad set.
If worn out third pad set, bearing in mind worries of disc vanishing into a cloud of dust is something even on race discs worn well beyond limit is something i have never heard of (yet), get a weight check before continuing with the discs.
Where corrosion from chemical wheel cleaner is cause of rough to touch surface, accompanied by poor brake performance, rapid pad wear and bad feeling / feedback into cabin, and if the disc looks like the worn out disc in my picture on previous pages, means the surface layer is compromised and regardless of weight the disc is wrecked. This is because no amount of conditioning will bring back surface to a mirror finish, a weight check is pointless, much like asking what the compression is of the good cylinders of an engine with one rod punched out the side - disc renewal is needed.
Seen this lots, a garage advises owners discs nearing limit. Owners say something like, well, brake performance is fine. When actually it isn't in relative terms, owners are only used to the one car they drive, brake performance needs checking with G meter by those that know what they are doing. Drove plenty of cars where despite what owner says about good performance, seat of the pants and G meter recording suggests otherwise.
My last piece of advice before i have pretty much covered all on the subject is only buy a disc which is bedded-in to a pad set. Up until recently the factory sold a disc separate / which had not been bedded-in to a pad, it is now only possible to buy a disc which comes with bedded-in pad set. The bedding-in procedure requires a drive of approx 60 kilometers with many full on the ABS stops from 100mph down to a dead stop. I would imagine that because of a dealer principal not wanting to carry the liability of a)his technicians driving those conditions b)releasing a car with poor braking performance if the cycle wasn't run perfectly, this call was made. So be aware of discs for sale on the open market at cheap price.
As the disc wear / approach service limit, in my experience 3 things happen all at same time; disc appears less carbon / black in colour, is less of a mirror surface to touch finish and as a result (because of the rough surface) pads wear more rapidly than driving style perhaps should. So if any of these happen, at next pad set change get garage to check weight before continuing with new pad set.
If worn out third pad set, bearing in mind worries of disc vanishing into a cloud of dust is something even on race discs worn well beyond limit is something i have never heard of (yet), get a weight check before continuing with the discs.
Where corrosion from chemical wheel cleaner is cause of rough to touch surface, accompanied by poor brake performance, rapid pad wear and bad feeling / feedback into cabin, and if the disc looks like the worn out disc in my picture on previous pages, means the surface layer is compromised and regardless of weight the disc is wrecked. This is because no amount of conditioning will bring back surface to a mirror finish, a weight check is pointless, much like asking what the compression is of the good cylinders of an engine with one rod punched out the side - disc renewal is needed.
Seen this lots, a garage advises owners discs nearing limit. Owners say something like, well, brake performance is fine. When actually it isn't in relative terms, owners are only used to the one car they drive, brake performance needs checking with G meter by those that know what they are doing. Drove plenty of cars where despite what owner says about good performance, seat of the pants and G meter recording suggests otherwise.
My last piece of advice before i have pretty much covered all on the subject is only buy a disc which is bedded-in to a pad set. Up until recently the factory sold a disc separate / which had not been bedded-in to a pad, it is now only possible to buy a disc which comes with bedded-in pad set. The bedding-in procedure requires a drive of approx 60 kilometers with many full on the ABS stops from 100mph down to a dead stop. I would imagine that because of a dealer principal not wanting to carry the liability of a)his technicians driving those conditions b)releasing a car with poor braking performance if the cycle wasn't run perfectly, this call was made. So be aware of discs for sale on the open market at cheap price.
Byteme said:
They're not!
Some however make their living suggesting you're a pussy if you don't need brake pad changes at every/every other service.
Must admit, being from a Lotus background since the early 80's, I'd prefer it if the chassis meant I didn't actually have to slow down for the corners.Some however make their living suggesting you're a pussy if you don't need brake pad changes at every/every other service.
I've always been light on brakes, tyres and clutches, yet have never been accused of holding anyone up at trackdays. However, I'm still to be convinced carbon brakes are anything but a marketing tool on a road car.
BamfordMike said:
in general reply to a few comments and new pictures
As the disc wear / approach service limit, in my experience 3 things happen all at same time; disc appears less carbon / black in colour, is less of a mirror surface to touch finish and as a result (because of the rough surface) pads wear more rapidly than driving style perhaps should. So if any of these happen, at next pad set change get garage to check weight before continuing with new pad set.
If worn out third pad set, bearing in mind worries of disc vanishing into a cloud of dust is something even on race discs worn well beyond limit is something i have never heard of (yet), get a weight check before continuing with the discs.
Where corrosion from chemical wheel cleaner is cause of rough to touch surface, accompanied by poor brake performance, rapid pad wear and bad feeling / feedback into cabin, and if the disc looks like the worn out disc in my picture on previous pages, means the surface layer is compromised and regardless of weight the disc is wrecked. This is because no amount of conditioning will bring back surface to a mirror finish, a weight check is pointless, much like asking what the compression is of the good cylinders of an engine with one rod punched out the side - disc renewal is needed.
Seen this lots, a garage advises owners discs nearing limit. Owners say something like, well, brake performance is fine. When actually it isn't in relative terms, owners are only used to the one car they drive, brake performance needs checking with G meter by those that know what they are doing. Drove plenty of cars where despite what owner says about good performance, seat of the pants and G meter recording suggests otherwise.
My last piece of advice before i have pretty much covered all on the subject is only buy a disc which is bedded-in to a pad set. Up until recently the factory sold a disc separate / which had not been bedded-in to a pad, it is now only possible to buy a disc which comes with bedded-in pad set. The bedding-in procedure requires a drive of approx 60 kilometers with many full on the ABS stops from 100mph down to a dead stop. I would imagine that because of a dealer principal not wanting to carry the liability of a)his technicians driving those conditions b)releasing a car with poor braking performance if the cycle wasn't run perfectly, this call was made. So be aware of discs for sale on the open market at cheap price.
So just post evidence of the "bedding-in procedure" along with all of the other proof of your daft allegations! Utter, complete BS!As the disc wear / approach service limit, in my experience 3 things happen all at same time; disc appears less carbon / black in colour, is less of a mirror surface to touch finish and as a result (because of the rough surface) pads wear more rapidly than driving style perhaps should. So if any of these happen, at next pad set change get garage to check weight before continuing with new pad set.
If worn out third pad set, bearing in mind worries of disc vanishing into a cloud of dust is something even on race discs worn well beyond limit is something i have never heard of (yet), get a weight check before continuing with the discs.
Where corrosion from chemical wheel cleaner is cause of rough to touch surface, accompanied by poor brake performance, rapid pad wear and bad feeling / feedback into cabin, and if the disc looks like the worn out disc in my picture on previous pages, means the surface layer is compromised and regardless of weight the disc is wrecked. This is because no amount of conditioning will bring back surface to a mirror finish, a weight check is pointless, much like asking what the compression is of the good cylinders of an engine with one rod punched out the side - disc renewal is needed.
Seen this lots, a garage advises owners discs nearing limit. Owners say something like, well, brake performance is fine. When actually it isn't in relative terms, owners are only used to the one car they drive, brake performance needs checking with G meter by those that know what they are doing. Drove plenty of cars where despite what owner says about good performance, seat of the pants and G meter recording suggests otherwise.
My last piece of advice before i have pretty much covered all on the subject is only buy a disc which is bedded-in to a pad set. Up until recently the factory sold a disc separate / which had not been bedded-in to a pad, it is now only possible to buy a disc which comes with bedded-in pad set. The bedding-in procedure requires a drive of approx 60 kilometers with many full on the ABS stops from 100mph down to a dead stop. I would imagine that because of a dealer principal not wanting to carry the liability of a)his technicians driving those conditions b)releasing a car with poor braking performance if the cycle wasn't run perfectly, this call was made. So be aware of discs for sale on the open market at cheap price.
I've seen "experts" post complete crap but the last half of your final paragraph is laughable!
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