DB9 chip tuning?
Discussion
We've never seen provable results just from chip tuning. Its not an easy chip to work with. On the BD9 as it doesn't have knock sensors it can't be simply chipped to run better on high octane fuels. The first page of the Bamford Rose thread gives a good descrption of the types of tuning available and likely results.
There are gains to be had just from mapping but you don't get much bang for your buck.
Here is the dyno charts before and after my bespoke remap. Only went from 430.7 t0 436.7. Everything else factory stock on Super Unleaded and AC off.
By bespoke, I mean it was not an "out of the box" remap, it was programmed a couple of times after getting the info from the dyno runs.
Dont believe the hype anyone gives you about performance gains from their mods until they produce an INDEPENDENT dyno run to prove it.
385bhp to 420 bhp @ 6500rpm though is a nice gain of 35 bhp, around 7%.
Here is the dyno charts before and after my bespoke remap. Only went from 430.7 t0 436.7. Everything else factory stock on Super Unleaded and AC off.
By bespoke, I mean it was not an "out of the box" remap, it was programmed a couple of times after getting the info from the dyno runs.
Dont believe the hype anyone gives you about performance gains from their mods until they produce an INDEPENDENT dyno run to prove it.
385bhp to 420 bhp @ 6500rpm though is a nice gain of 35 bhp, around 7%.
Edited by 8Tech on Thursday 2nd October 20:53
8Tech said:
Dont believe the hype anyone gives you about performance gains from their mods until they produce an INDEPENDENT dyno run to prove it.
i would say don't bother looking at a line on a sheet of paper, it means nothing.if somebody purchases a remap without hardware, take it for a drive post reflash and if your socks aren't knocked off, don't buy it. I don't think this is anything new, most reputable remap companies seem to offer try before you buy as standard these days
Edited by BamfordMike on Thursday 2nd October 22:35
BamfordMike said:
8Tech said:
Dont believe the hype anyone gives you about performance gains from their mods until they produce an INDEPENDENT dyno run to prove it.
i would say don't bother looking at a line on a sheet of paper, it means nothing.if somebody purchases a remap without hardware, take it for a drive post reflash and if your socks aren't knocked off, don't buy it. I don't think this is anything new, most reputable remap companies seem to offer try before you buy as standard these days
Edited by BamfordMike on Thursday 2nd October 22:35
You can alter the throttle map to make the car feel far more responsive, but this does not give it more power.
The dyno is the only real, unbiased way of determining whether mods have been either successful, or up to any claims made. A louder exhaust also gives the same effect, it sounds faster, but that does not mean it is.
It's not just a line on a piece of paper, it is a graphical representation of the engine output DATA whether it suits your expectations or not and an independant garage has nothing to lose by showing the truth.
8Tech said:
I disagree.
You can alter the throttle map to make the car feel far more responsive, but this does not give it more power.
The dyno is the only real, unbiased way of determining whether mods have been either successful, or up to any claims made. A louder exhaust also gives the same effect, it sounds faster, but that does not mean it is.
It's not just a line on a piece of paper, it is a graphical representation of the engine output DATA whether it suits your expectations or not and an independant garage has nothing to lose by showing the truth.
the guys i come across are far more discerning to be fooled by pedal progression map bluffs, they take the car they know intimately well for a drive on full pedal and assess change with all variables the same, one guy even had his own acceleration time measuring kit which I'm sure you will agree is better than a dyno because a faster car is what is being searched for not a line on a piece of paper.You can alter the throttle map to make the car feel far more responsive, but this does not give it more power.
The dyno is the only real, unbiased way of determining whether mods have been either successful, or up to any claims made. A louder exhaust also gives the same effect, it sounds faster, but that does not mean it is.
It's not just a line on a piece of paper, it is a graphical representation of the engine output DATA whether it suits your expectations or not and an independant garage has nothing to lose by showing the truth.
i will stick to my original advice to forum, if your socks aren't blown off, the yellow traction control light doesn't start working, then start walking. Expectations are met by driving, not by presentations on paper, but if that is your sign off criteria then for you, use it.
8Tech said:
There are gains to be had just from mapping but you don't get much bang for your buck.
Here is the dyno charts before and after my bespoke remap. Only went from 430.7 t0 436.7. Everything else factory stock on Super Unleaded and AC off.
By bespoke, I mean it was not an "out of the box" remap, it was programmed a couple of times after getting the info from the dyno runs.
Dont believe the hype anyone gives you about performance gains from their mods until they produce an INDEPENDENT dyno run to prove it.
385bhp to 420 bhp @ 6500rpm though is a nice gain of 35 bhp, around 7%.
That's quite impressive, when you consider also the good gain in low to mid range torque, that will give an extra shove in the back, the engine has gained considerable efficiency, for general road use that is a very healthy gain.Here is the dyno charts before and after my bespoke remap. Only went from 430.7 t0 436.7. Everything else factory stock on Super Unleaded and AC off.
By bespoke, I mean it was not an "out of the box" remap, it was programmed a couple of times after getting the info from the dyno runs.
Dont believe the hype anyone gives you about performance gains from their mods until they produce an INDEPENDENT dyno run to prove it.
385bhp to 420 bhp @ 6500rpm though is a nice gain of 35 bhp, around 7%.
Edited by 8Tech on Thursday 2nd October 20:53
28'C ambient Temperature seems a little high, unless it was done on a very warm day.
If the REAL ambient temp was much lower then the Post Map run with an incorrect tempt can easily add a few HP.
I've seen loads of posted maps, one from an Aston Owner which showed the ambient temp at 65'C, If you have multiple print outs of ALL the runs, ensure all the readings at the bottom are within scope of each other.
You can also check historical met data to see if the barometric pressure and Relative Humidity for that day line up.
If these figures are incorrect the readings are worthless.
Independent RR's might not be so independent if they do a lot of post map checking for other companies ;-)
Sometimes the forum brings out the cynic in me.
If the REAL ambient temp was much lower then the Post Map run with an incorrect tempt can easily add a few HP.
I've seen loads of posted maps, one from an Aston Owner which showed the ambient temp at 65'C, If you have multiple print outs of ALL the runs, ensure all the readings at the bottom are within scope of each other.
You can also check historical met data to see if the barometric pressure and Relative Humidity for that day line up.
If these figures are incorrect the readings are worthless.
Independent RR's might not be so independent if they do a lot of post map checking for other companies ;-)
Sometimes the forum brings out the cynic in me.
GTDB7 said:
28'C ambient Temperature seems a little high, unless it was done on a very warm day.
If the REAL ambient temp was much lower then the Post Map run with an incorrect tempt can easily add a few HP.
I've seen loads of posted maps, one from an Aston Owner which showed the ambient temp at 65'C, If you have multiple print outs of ALL the runs, ensure all the readings at the bottom are within scope of each other.
You can also check historical met data to see if the barometric pressure and Relative Humidity for that day line up.
If these figures are incorrect the readings are worthless.
Independent RR's might not be so independent if they do a lot of post map checking for other companies ;-)
Sometimes the forum brings out the cynic in me.
The runs were done on consequtive days in the summer so the conditions are similar. Barometric pressure was identical but temperature was 22C on the initial run. That would therefore imply that the gain was better than shown as the second run sessions was at a HIGHER temp that the first session.If the REAL ambient temp was much lower then the Post Map run with an incorrect tempt can easily add a few HP.
I've seen loads of posted maps, one from an Aston Owner which showed the ambient temp at 65'C, If you have multiple print outs of ALL the runs, ensure all the readings at the bottom are within scope of each other.
You can also check historical met data to see if the barometric pressure and Relative Humidity for that day line up.
If these figures are incorrect the readings are worthless.
Independent RR's might not be so independent if they do a lot of post map checking for other companies ;-)
Sometimes the forum brings out the cynic in me.
The map posted is the overlay of the before and after although I have individual maps of every run.
I believe the dyno self calibrates taking into account pressure, humidity and temperature before calculating the output power reading anyway.
Don't forget, I am the end user checking the results of a modification, I have not got to explain results to paying customers so I have no axe to grind or disappointments to explain away.
BamfordMike said:
8Tech said:
I disagree.
You can alter the throttle map to make the car feel far more responsive, but this does not give it more power.
The dyno is the only real, unbiased way of determining whether mods have been either successful, or up to any claims made. A louder exhaust also gives the same effect, it sounds faster, but that does not mean it is.
It's not just a line on a piece of paper, it is a graphical representation of the engine output DATA whether it suits your expectations or not and an independant garage has nothing to lose by showing the truth.
the guys i come across are far more discerning to be fooled by pedal progression map bluffs, they take the car they know intimately well for a drive on full pedal and assess change with all variables the same, one guy even had his own acceleration time measuring kit which I'm sure you will agree is better than a dyno because a faster car is what is being searched for not a line on a piece of paper.You can alter the throttle map to make the car feel far more responsive, but this does not give it more power.
The dyno is the only real, unbiased way of determining whether mods have been either successful, or up to any claims made. A louder exhaust also gives the same effect, it sounds faster, but that does not mean it is.
It's not just a line on a piece of paper, it is a graphical representation of the engine output DATA whether it suits your expectations or not and an independant garage has nothing to lose by showing the truth.
i will stick to my original advice to forum, if your socks aren't blown off, the yellow traction control light doesn't start working, then start walking. Expectations are met by driving, not by presentations on paper, but if that is your sign off criteria then for you, use it.
Surely not. It may satisfy customers, but thats not the discussion here now is it?
And if the improvement was so drastic, then I would certainly wish to quantify it if it was my money spent.
I think we should arrange a dyno shoot out to see what mods make what difference. Just like the performance magazines do when they test engine modifications.
8Tech said:
Hmmm, why are you being so defensive of a procedure used worldwide as the mpst recognised method of checking engine output? Sure, they may be discerning customers but are you really saying that a "seat of the pants" impression of a power change is more accurate than a dyno?
Surely not. It may satisfy customers, but thats not the discussion here now is it?
And if the improvement was so drastic, then I would certainly wish to quantify it if it was my money spent.
I think we should arrange a dyno shoot out to see what mods make what difference. Just like the performance magazines do when they test engine modifications.
i think dyno's are for tuners to hone their product and if selling, say, 60 bhp delta the customer knows he expects to have his socks knocked off from first hand driving and traction control light working overtime, meaning once he experiences that, the last place he wants his Aston to go is a smelly dyno. Surely not. It may satisfy customers, but thats not the discussion here now is it?
And if the improvement was so drastic, then I would certainly wish to quantify it if it was my money spent.
I think we should arrange a dyno shoot out to see what mods make what difference. Just like the performance magazines do when they test engine modifications.
it's good you mention magazines, because once tuners products are critically assessed by respected journo at the wheel, means instantly consumers have faith in what a retailer sells. Let me know if you would like to read a few reviews and i will point you in the right direction, another reason why dyno becomes irrelevant.
last reason dyno is irrelevant is that for Aston tuning there is now a choice of retailers and whatever the product, the gain are by-and-largely the same between all.
I'm not too sure what you are pushing here, this discussion started off debate about ecu reflash which you said gains were minimum. Now you want a dyno shoot out? Anyhoos, i have given the advice i wanted to the readership, should you want a further discussion on subject pop across to the sticky at the top.
syncii said:
Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry if I've stirred up a hornets nest here.
To be honest I'm more than happy with the DB9's power. Plenty for me and I intend to keep my licence clean if at all possible.
If there had been a reasonably cheap and cheerful remap that gave a conclusive power return I might have gone for it. I bought the car more for it's looks to be honest and I am 100% happy with what I've got.
no hornets in my nest, and its good to talk!To be honest I'm more than happy with the DB9's power. Plenty for me and I intend to keep my licence clean if at all possible.
If there had been a reasonably cheap and cheerful remap that gave a conclusive power return I might have gone for it. I bought the car more for it's looks to be honest and I am 100% happy with what I've got.
enjoy your car! Sounds like for you it hits the spot! An ecu re map would indeed unlikely reward you considering the spend, as has already been advised
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