Aston Martin GT3
Discussion
Partly in answer to the recent posts and partly specifically to Mike from BR, to me it makes sense if they go down the weight route rather than power, whether we are talking this specific project from AM or a private project
The reason is that when you already have 565bhp (perhaps 580 on this new model) and of course, through losing rear cats or going down the full new manifold route (whether with BR or anyone else), the option of going up to 620ish bhp on this current iteration of the engine, surely there is more benefit to be had from losing 10% of weight than gaining 10% power ?
Now this does assume the 165kg weight loss referred to above is 'genuine'. I am as sceptical as some others on here about how true the figure is but it is theoretically possible and if they have managed to do that, the result is a car that genuinely will be more suited to the track
I don't agree about electric seats. If it's track focussed and spoilered up, I see no reason at all why with a total aim of 100 cars to sell, they can't get away with losing the motors for the seats and even the windows -
air con maybe less so I agree
But again with so few cars to be made and bearing in mind it's to be so track focussed, to me it makes much more sense the the recent bentley gt3 road car which costs a similar amount, looks the business but actually is in no way whatsoever a track car other than in looks
Of course the likes of Porsche & Ferrari combine aero & weight loss on their track specials with minor improvements everywhere else, from engine mounts to suspension, from seats to door cards and they add up to overall gains in handling which I'm guessing Aston won't be doing with this car
But I go back to the original premise, it's a big 'if' but if there is a genuine 10% weight loss, that's firstly going to have a real tangible benefit to track handling/performance and secondly, is to be commended IMO
The reason is that when you already have 565bhp (perhaps 580 on this new model) and of course, through losing rear cats or going down the full new manifold route (whether with BR or anyone else), the option of going up to 620ish bhp on this current iteration of the engine, surely there is more benefit to be had from losing 10% of weight than gaining 10% power ?
Now this does assume the 165kg weight loss referred to above is 'genuine'. I am as sceptical as some others on here about how true the figure is but it is theoretically possible and if they have managed to do that, the result is a car that genuinely will be more suited to the track
I don't agree about electric seats. If it's track focussed and spoilered up, I see no reason at all why with a total aim of 100 cars to sell, they can't get away with losing the motors for the seats and even the windows -
air con maybe less so I agree
But again with so few cars to be made and bearing in mind it's to be so track focussed, to me it makes much more sense the the recent bentley gt3 road car which costs a similar amount, looks the business but actually is in no way whatsoever a track car other than in looks
Of course the likes of Porsche & Ferrari combine aero & weight loss on their track specials with minor improvements everywhere else, from engine mounts to suspension, from seats to door cards and they add up to overall gains in handling which I'm guessing Aston won't be doing with this car
But I go back to the original premise, it's a big 'if' but if there is a genuine 10% weight loss, that's firstly going to have a real tangible benefit to track handling/performance and secondly, is to be commended IMO
jonby said:
surely there is more benefit to be had from losing 10% of weight than gaining 10% power ?
example, 510 bhp weight reduced V12V Zagato Vs V12V coupe at 580 BHP, the latter wins hands down. But V12V Zagato @ 580bhp spec - more like it but is still no supercar by today / tomorrows standard.
the 10% weight reduction route is engineering cop out, just taking out luxury stuff yet no doubt a bigger price tag around its head. Whereas barking mad V600 / one-77 style motor delivers the better enthusiasts car but needs more engineering effort than strip out of some heavy stuff that makes car feel less luxury to create it.
perhaps I'm bias because I'm an engineer and anything that took a huge engineering effort to create and ticks boxes gets my admiration. Haven't seen huge engineering effort post one-77. How nuts is it that race inspired or one-77 inspired hasn't really translated into anything in showrooms. A huge marketing Missed opportunity in my book.
its been said on this thread already, what is needed is Ferrari style specials that make everybody take a step back in awe of engineering. Not a 10% weight reduction clad with race body with 10 bhp extra, but i guess is fine if there are buyers for it, but in a magazine it will be an, "oh, ok" instead of best piece of British engineering to be proud of, which as non buyers of the product and fans of the brand, is what we all want to see in a special? No?
George29 said:
Agreed. Weight reduction helps everything, not just straight line speed.
agreed the word is helps, but 10% is limited benefit, 20% is game changer. However, whilst a circa 20% reduction returns night and day transformation N24 vs std V8, to drive on road (which i have) is comically bad. And only 10% weight reduction will just make driver think engine revs up a bit freer and dynamically fees a bit nimbler, but that's about all (V12V Vs Zagato, which i have driven both too).George29 said:
jonby said:
surely there is more benefit to be had from losing 10% of weight than gaining 10% power ?
Agreed. Weight reduction helps everything, not just straight line speed. Using Mike's analogy, would we be better with a 1,130hp 1.65 ton Aston or a 565 bhp 825 kg car ? Surely the latter
Not sure V12V to V12VS / zag (which of course should have had the new engine) is a fair comparison - surely V12VS was partly about bringing the engine into the modern world, with variable valve etc and partly about integration with the new gearbox, much less about the headline 55bhp power increase ?
jonby said:
Using Mike's analogy, would we be better with a 1,130hp 1.65 ton Aston or a 565 bhp 825 kg car ? Surely the latter
Not sure V12V to V12VS / zag (which of course should have had the new engine) is a fair comparison - surely V12VS was partly about bringing the engine into the modern world, with variable valve etc and partly about integration with the new gearbox, much less about the headline 55bhp power increase ?
there is a power / weight envelope dictated by what is physically possible, what i have driven fits such envelopes and i pass that benefit of first hand drive appraisal instead of pie in sky this or that should be better.Not sure V12V to V12VS / zag (which of course should have had the new engine) is a fair comparison - surely V12VS was partly about bringing the engine into the modern world, with variable valve etc and partly about integration with the new gearbox, much less about the headline 55bhp power increase ?
the variable cam engine was primarily an enabler of emissions regs, clearly this is evident because versus other makers mid cycle power uplift, the figure is modest. The intention is good here, a GT3, sell to road Monday what won (convincingly) on Sunday. As you have already mentioned, its just a shame from leaked info the car isn't closer to what won on Sunday, especially considering will be a Swanson of the model. And whilst wishing best sales success possible, this is my only comment and i would sling a barking mad motor in the car with modest weight reduction, but that takes resolve to deliver
robgt3 said:
James from Harwoods has told me today that the new V12 Vantage GT3 (Rachel was wrong) has already sold out in the UK. He has secured orders for 3 Cars.
All I would say is very well done Aston Martin !
Like I already said, Rachel specifically told me GT3 on the same day, so perhaps you misheard her. Also it'll be sold out of refundable deposits, might be a bit different when the second £50k in required in Q1 and it becomes non-refundable. All I would say is very well done Aston Martin !
My information is that orders are still being taken.
Works have 10 deposits and will provide a Silverstone "race" for their clients.
Car sounds track focused (good).
All body panels are different to V12S and it will have large spoiler.Basically looks like GT3 race car.
15k deposit is refundable if clients are not happy with spec when finalised (good).
Project is being run by race team engineers not production car team (good)
I am convincing myself that putting a 15k deposit down to buy an option on car is a no brainer.
I am yet to run this logic past herindoors but cannot see any downside unless anyone on here advises otherwise.
Works have 10 deposits and will provide a Silverstone "race" for their clients.
Car sounds track focused (good).
All body panels are different to V12S and it will have large spoiler.Basically looks like GT3 race car.
15k deposit is refundable if clients are not happy with spec when finalised (good).
Project is being run by race team engineers not production car team (good)
I am convincing myself that putting a 15k deposit down to buy an option on car is a no brainer.
I am yet to run this logic past herindoors but cannot see any downside unless anyone on here advises otherwise.
Edited by ajr550 on Thursday 4th December 19:01
ajr550 said:
My information is that orders are still being taken.
Works have 10 deposits and will provide a Silverstone "race" for their clients.
Car sounds track focused (good).
All body panels are different to V12S and it will have large spoiler.Basically looks like GT3 race car.
15k deposit is refundable of clients are not happy with spec when finalised (good).
Project is being run by race team engineers not production car team (good)
I am convincing myself that putting a 15k deposit down to buy an option on car is a no brainer.
I am yet to run this logic past herindoors but cannot see any Delaware unless anyone on here advises otherwise.
I thought about it, but the idea of driving a "race" car with a massive spoiler just doesn't appeal on the road. The reason I drive an Aston and not something Italian or with big spoilers is I like something a bit more subtle. Oh and £250k isn't exactly pocket change for me! Works have 10 deposits and will provide a Silverstone "race" for their clients.
Car sounds track focused (good).
All body panels are different to V12S and it will have large spoiler.Basically looks like GT3 race car.
15k deposit is refundable of clients are not happy with spec when finalised (good).
Project is being run by race team engineers not production car team (good)
I am convincing myself that putting a 15k deposit down to buy an option on car is a no brainer.
I am yet to run this logic past herindoors but cannot see any Delaware unless anyone on here advises otherwise.
To be honest I completely agree.
This car sounds more in your face than my Speciale which I specced without stripes etc.
My first thought is can you delete spoiler to make it a more discreet road car.
Upsides are that Aston are focusing on performance with this car and if only 20 to 25 RHD could be depreciation free.Downside is that I think it will be a bit showy.
This car sounds more in your face than my Speciale which I specced without stripes etc.
My first thought is can you delete spoiler to make it a more discreet road car.
Upsides are that Aston are focusing on performance with this car and if only 20 to 25 RHD could be depreciation free.Downside is that I think it will be a bit showy.
ajr550 said:
My information is that orders are still being taken.
Works have 10 deposits and will provide a Silverstone "race" for their clients.
Car sounds track focused (good).
All body panels are different to V12S and it will have large spoiler.Basically looks like GT3 race car.
15k deposit is refundable if clients are not happy with spec when finalised (good).
Project is being run by race team engineers not production car team (good)
I am convincing myself that putting a 15k deposit down to buy an option on car is a no brainer.
I am yet to run this logic past herindoors but cannot see any downside unless anyone on here advises otherwise.
this all sounds very good, however well known to gaffers of projects pretty much at any company is if the project is a road car, better road car engineers do it. If its a race car, get race engineers to do it. Never mix the 2. Seeing as some legislation must be passed, i think there is a stretch of marketing going on with that commentWorks have 10 deposits and will provide a Silverstone "race" for their clients.
Car sounds track focused (good).
All body panels are different to V12S and it will have large spoiler.Basically looks like GT3 race car.
15k deposit is refundable if clients are not happy with spec when finalised (good).
Project is being run by race team engineers not production car team (good)
I am convincing myself that putting a 15k deposit down to buy an option on car is a no brainer.
I am yet to run this logic past herindoors but cannot see any downside unless anyone on here advises otherwise.
Edited by ajr550 on Thursday 4th December 19:01
ajr550 said:
To be honest I completely agree.
This car sounds more in your face than my Speciale which I specced without stripes etc.
My first thought is can you delete spoiler to make it a more discreet road car.
Upsides are that Aston are focusing on performance with this car and if only 20 to 25 RHD could be depreciation free.Downside is that I think it will be a bit showy.
Congrats on the Speciale, I drove one at Carrs when by car was at Grange. Incredible thing. Perosnally I think that would be my choice at this price level. This car sounds more in your face than my Speciale which I specced without stripes etc.
My first thought is can you delete spoiler to make it a more discreet road car.
Upsides are that Aston are focusing on performance with this car and if only 20 to 25 RHD could be depreciation free.Downside is that I think it will be a bit showy.
outofstepuk said:
Congrats on the Speciale, I drove one at Carrs when by car was at Grange. Incredible thing. Perosnally I think that would be my choice at this price level.
I bought from Carrs (brilliant would recommend to anyone) and will never sell Speciale which is just fantastic.I don't expect V12 Vantage GT3 to be anywhere near as good dynamically but seems like a more interesting place to park some cash than the bank.I have just committed so I'm in !ajr550 said:
outofstepuk said:
Congrats on the Speciale, I drove one at Carrs when by car was at Grange. Incredible thing. Perosnally I think that would be my choice at this price level.
I bought from Carrs (brilliant would recommend to anyone) and will never sell Speciale which is just fantastic.I don't expect V12 Vantage GT3 to be anywhere near as good dynamically but seems like a more interesting place to park some cash than the bank.I have just committed so I'm in !ajr550 said:
Happy to post regularly on this thread re progress and details of car assuming people are interested.
I'm sure you will all let me know in no uncertain terms if I'm boring you.
Now off to have a conversation with herindoors about the level of funds in our bank account !
I'm sure you will all let me know in no uncertain terms if I'm boring you.
Now off to have a conversation with herindoors about the level of funds in our bank account !
As Bins will tell you, they are wired up all wrong
ajr550 said:
To be honest I completely agree.
This car sounds more in your face than my Speciale which I specced without stripes etc.
My first thought is can you delete spoiler to make it a more discreet road car.
Upsides are that Aston are focusing on performance with this car and if only 20 to 25 RHD could be depreciation free.Downside is that I think it will be a bit showy.
Good man This car sounds more in your face than my Speciale which I specced without stripes etc.
My first thought is can you delete spoiler to make it a more discreet road car.
Upsides are that Aston are focusing on performance with this car and if only 20 to 25 RHD could be depreciation free.Downside is that I think it will be a bit showy.
hopefully the start of an Aston love affair, don't worry about add on spoilers, etc, Aston do "class" better than most and the end product is rarely flashy. It should be a special car and will even feature the new Vanquish dash design.... luck chap 
jonby said:
What Mike says above makes some sense, but I just think once you get to a certain power bracket, losing weight means all other things being equal, better traction, better economy, easier to throw round corners, etc
Using Mike's analogy, would we be better with a 1,130hp 1.65 ton Aston or a 565 bhp 825 kg car ? Surely the latter
Not sure V12V to V12VS / zag (which of course should have had the new engine) is a fair comparison - surely V12VS was partly about bringing the engine into the modern world, with variable valve etc and partly about integration with the new gearbox, much less about the headline 55bhp power increase ?
Weight v power.....Using Mike's analogy, would we be better with a 1,130hp 1.65 ton Aston or a 565 bhp 825 kg car ? Surely the latter
Not sure V12V to V12VS / zag (which of course should have had the new engine) is a fair comparison - surely V12VS was partly about bringing the engine into the modern world, with variable valve etc and partly about integration with the new gearbox, much less about the headline 55bhp power increase ?
Power only gives one benefit. Weight reduction improves acceleration, deceleration, change of direction, and gives the best improvement on a lap. I just hope someone from Aston Martin HQ is reading this thread.
TAKE IT TO THE NORDSCHLEIFE, WITH PEDRO, DARREN, [OR ME!], AND POST A SUB 7'15" LAP.
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