Aston Martin GT3

Author
Discussion

jonby

5,357 posts

156 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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roughrider said:
jonby said:
What Mike says above makes some sense, but I just think once you get to a certain power bracket, losing weight means all other things being equal, better traction, better economy, easier to throw round corners, etc

Using Mike's analogy, would we be better with a 1,130hp 1.65 ton Aston or a 565 bhp 825 kg car ? Surely the latter

Not sure V12V to V12VS / zag (which of course should have had the new engine) is a fair comparison - surely V12VS was partly about bringing the engine into the modern world, with variable valve etc and partly about integration with the new gearbox, much less about the headline 55bhp power increase ?
Weight v power.....

Power only gives one benefit. Weight reduction improves acceleration, deceleration, change of direction, and gives the best improvement on a lap. I just hope someone from Aston Martin HQ is reading this thread.

TAKE IT TO THE NORDSCHLEIFE, WITH PEDRO, DARREN, [OR ME!], AND POST A SUB 7'15" LAP. beer
Mike's an engineer and I'm not so I can't pretend to be the expert here. Also, of course we all love as enthusiasts, a barking mad engine to use Mike's terminology. I've always fancied the idea if I win the lottery of asking for a bespoke car, in the mould of CC100, with a ONE 77 engine !

But I still go back to my original stance which is with 580 bhp, improvable to 620+ with manifold tinkering, from a great engine, the next step should be reduced weight not increased power. Plus that's more 'doable' from the current starting point, as there is so much potential to lose weight from the current astons

SFO

5,162 posts

182 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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Grant3 said:
and will even feature the new Vanquish dash design.... luck chap smile
it will indeed be special ..

are they rolling this out to the rest of the range before the Vantage is replaced?

Chamboy

109 posts

131 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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SFO said:
it will indeed be special ..
I' m rather hoping so too....as just managed to secure one of the last UK allocation myself 1st thing this morning :-)

Latest I hear is a 600PS + 1,500kg target envelope and, as noted, Vanquish style Facia. £15k to get in then £45k non-refundable 1Q.

Only picked up the new V12S last Saturday so am getting some stick at home for only managing 6 days before getting the next one booked up!

2015 is going to be interesting for sure.

Andy

BamfordMike

1,192 posts

156 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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jonby said:
I've always fancied the idea if I win the lottery of asking for a bespoke car, in the mould of CC100, with a ONE 77 engine !
now you are talking. Give me a barking mad stallion that jumps from side to side and snarls rather than a clinical 'whippet' which posts a lap time meaningless in outside world.

over 10 years ago i remember competitor assessing Porsche Turbo. On the big wide track in straight line the car intimidated. Haven't driven anything since that can 'really' say done the same. Come on, give us a proper V600 Brit Bruising Beast less of the technically correct clinical.

Edited by BamfordMike on Friday 5th December 13:30

George29

14,706 posts

163 months

Friday 5th December 2014
quotequote all
BamfordMike said:
now you are talking. Give me a barking mad stallion that jumps from side to side and snarls rather than a clinical 'whippet' which posts a lap time meaningless in outside world.

over 10 years ago i remember competitor assessing Porsche Turbo. On the big wide track in straight line the car intimidated. Haven't driven anything since that can 'really' say done the same. Come on, give us a proper V600 Brit Bruising Beast less of the technically correct clinical.

Edited by BamfordMike on Friday 5th December 13:30
I agree with your sentiment, and Id love to see a modern take on a V600 (my all time favourite car in LM form cloud9 ).

But I don't think this is the car to do that. It's called GT3 and is supposed to be paying homage to the racing car. It should be about lightweight, good handling and big wings etc.

Now if they were to take a big GT car and supercharge it (preferably twice)... Well then that would be a different story! Maybe one last iteration of the DB9 before that gets replaced in a few years?

BamfordMike

1,192 posts

156 months

Friday 5th December 2014
quotequote all
George29 said:
I agree with your sentiment, and Id love to see a modern take on a V600 (my all time favourite car in LM form cloud9 ).

But I don't think this is the car to do that. It's called GT3 and is supposed to be paying homage to the racing car. It should be about lightweight, good handling and big wings etc.

Now if they were to take a big GT car and supercharge it (preferably twice)... Well then that would be a different story! Maybe one last iteration of the DB9 before that gets replaced in a few years?
i think you have hit nail on head, and i think has been said before in this thread. Take the Ferrari example and build lots of different flavour specials. The GT3 will have a crowd of buyers, so will V600 #2. This will create halo effect on brand and if timed with new model launches of more volume stuff, help sales.

SELON

1,172 posts

128 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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ajr550 said:
Happy to post regularly on this thread re progress and details of car assuming people are interested.
I'm sure you will all let me know in no uncertain terms if I'm boring you.
Now off to have a conversation with herindoors about the level of funds in our bank account !
I was momentarily jealous, but then remembered you've yet to have THE conversation with the boss...does she run a compensation matching scheme? This car really costs a lot more than £250k wink
There is no way I could afford that...

Let us know all about it! (The car, that is)

bentley01

1,002 posts

135 months

Saturday 6th December 2014
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outofstepuk said:
I thought about it, but the idea of driving a "race" car with a massive spoiler just doesn't appeal on the road. The reason I drive an Aston and not something Italian or with big spoilers is I like something a bit more subtle. Oh and £250k isn't exactly pocket change for me!
This is the reason I would not have a Porsche GT3. Amazing car no doubt but if I offered to take my wife out for dinner in it I'm sure she would choose one of our other cars. Great for a track day or a drive to Le Mans but on a day to day basis I would feel a bit of a prat to be honest. V12 Vantage has about the right combination of looks and menace with no big spoilers in sight.

Vee12V

1,329 posts

159 months

Saturday 6th December 2014
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L0TT0 said:
and the V12V Zagato is a perfect example. I don't believe it ever reached the original perceived production numbers
I was close of ordering a Zagato. Just had to have one when I saw the racecar unveil at Villa d'Este.

But I was a tad disappointed with the production version because it lacked any mechanical and or power upgrades to justify the price of what technically was the same car as my current v12. Also didn't like the fixed spoiler.

Edited by Vee12V on Saturday 6th December 12:13

ajr550

489 posts

123 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Major change of heart on this.Final straw was that one of the big selling points for hardcore GT3 is that it has the new Vanquish dashboard !!!
I'm sure this will be a good car and will hold value but I could not justify the premium over a V12S on basis of spec I've seen.

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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ajr550 said:
Major change of heart on this.Final straw was that one of the big selling points for hardcore GT3 is that it has the new Vanquish dashboard !!!

I'm sure this will be a good car and will hold value but I could not justify the premium over a V12S on basis of spec I've seen.

Are you bound by a confidentiality agreement Andrew, or can you tell us a little more about the car?

ajr550

489 posts

123 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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No confidentiality.Carbon fibre body and lots of Alcantara and Carbon inside.Special Carbon seats.Big Wing.Vanquish dash.
Trying to get bhp as close to 600 as can but 580 is what I have seen.
1500kg weight.
Gearbox is from V12S no upgrade.
Titanium exhaust system which I'm told is a side exhaust but I'm struggling to see how this would be approved on a road car.
Magnesium torque tube.
All of which adds up to over a 100k premium.
I am still tempted but sat down and compared engineering changes on my Speciale over standard 458 to changes on GT3 over V12S and could not justify price.
Basically I think punters are paying for exclusivity which is fine but not what I want to pay for.
To be clear I am not knocking Aston for doing this and I'm sure this will be a great fun car but it is a great shame that the company does not have the resource to really engineer dynamically special cars.
My big hope is that Matt Becker will work on the car so that handling will be first rate.
As I have already posted I am a great fan of the work he and his father did at Lotus.



Edited by ajr550 on Wednesday 17th December 23:25

Chamboy

109 posts

131 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
What I can say is that the Factory visits to see the clay model for prospective customers has been postponed until early 15 because additional re-styling and final motor spec is still underway to get closer to the racecar. Am in and will wait until 1Q to see how it pans out. Could still be pretty stellar - agree it won't/can't be a Speciale (or 650) on weight alone but I personally remain optimistic and enthusiastic. One buys with passion at this level and IMHO absolute performance is not all that relevant. The situation at the 600 hp+ level is reminisant of the current Superbike state of affairs - in a road situation one never approaches vehicle limits so other factors come into play.

Happy to be persuaded otherwise!

Andy

ajr550

489 posts

123 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Cannot disagree.
Really hope the car is mega and I look like a plonker opting out !





JohnG1

3,462 posts

204 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
quotequote all
ajr550 said:
No confidentiality.Carbon fibre body and lots of Alcantara and Carbon inside.Special Carbon seats.Big Wing.Vanquish dash.
Trying to get bhp as close to 600 as can but 580 is what I have seen.
1500kg weight.
Gearbox is from V12S no upgrade.
Titanium exhaust system which I'm told is a side exhaust but I'm struggling to see how this would be approved on a road car.
Magnesium torque tube.
All of which adds up to over a 100k premium.
I am still tempted but sat down and compared engineering changes on my Speciale over standard 458 to changes on GT3 over V12S and could not justify price.
Basically I think punters are paying for exclusivity which is fine but not what I want to pay for.
To be clear I am not knocking Aston for doing this and I'm sure this will be a great fun car but it is a great shame that the company does not have the resource to really engineer dynamically special cars.
My big hope is that Matt Becker will work on the car so that handling will be first rate.
As I have already posted I am a great fan of the work he and his father did at Lotus.



Edited by ajr550 on Wednesday 17th December 23:25
Brilliant...
So I guess AML have reused the magnesium alloy torque tube from the V8 race cars. But it's not a lot lighter than aluminium! But it is in line with my research on this...

And a titanium exhaust - I bet they have got Akrapovic to do that (same as 997 911 GT2 RS).

Side exit exhaust is viable in a road car - look at the Mercedes G-wagen G55 and G63.

mikey k

13,011 posts

215 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
quotequote all
JohnG1 said:
ajr550 said:
No confidentiality.Carbon fibre body and lots of Alcantara and Carbon inside.Special Carbon seats.Big Wing.Vanquish dash.
Trying to get bhp as close to 600 as can but 580 is what I have seen.
1500kg weight.
Gearbox is from V12S no upgrade.
Titanium exhaust system which I'm told is a side exhaust but I'm struggling to see how this would be approved on a road car.
Magnesium torque tube.
All of which adds up to over a 100k premium.
I am still tempted but sat down and compared engineering changes on my Speciale over standard 458 to changes on GT3 over V12S and could not justify price.
Basically I think punters are paying for exclusivity which is fine but not what I want to pay for.
To be clear I am not knocking Aston for doing this and I'm sure this will be a great fun car but it is a great shame that the company does not have the resource to really engineer dynamically special cars.
My big hope is that Matt Becker will work on the car so that handling will be first rate.
As I have already posted I am a great fan of the work he and his father did at Lotus.



Edited by ajr550 on Wednesday 17th December 23:25
Brilliant...
So I guess AML have reused the magnesium alloy torque tube from the V8 race cars. But it's not a lot lighter than aluminium! But it is in line with my research on this...

And a titanium exhaust - I bet they have got Akrapovic to do that (same as 997 911 GT2 RS).

Side exit exhaust is viable in a road car - look at the Mercedes G-wagen G55 and G63.
Not really trying very hard for something that is going to be ~twice the price of a V12VS
The side exit exhaust is do able but will be bloody noisey, hence why Morgan now offer it as an option on Aero's

George29

14,706 posts

163 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
quotequote all
JohnG1 said:
Side exit exhaust is viable in a road car - look at the Mercedes G-wagen G55 and G63.
And the SLR. Not much is cooler than a side exit exhaust smokin

JohnG1

3,462 posts

204 months

Friday 19th December 2014
quotequote all
George29 said:
JohnG1 said:
Side exit exhaust is viable in a road car - look at the Mercedes G-wagen G55 and G63.
And the SLR. Not much is cooler than a side exit exhaust smokin
I do think it look cool, until you walk past them as they floor the loud pedal....

I don't think it would work for a V12V though, I am not near mine to look but aren't the sills pretty structural? I know that the 1-77 uses the sills for the exhaust and it has received criticism (I think in the Evo write up with the KSA plate green car with rose gold dash) for getting too hot.

But that was a new build carbon fibre platform, rather than a rework of the existing V12V.

I know some of the race cars have side exhausts but again, they are not road cars (the V12 GT3 has a different wheelbase).

Will be good to see if AML deliver what the V12RS promised in a run out V12 GT3.


ajr550

489 posts

123 months

Wednesday 7th January 2015
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Views on the AM website GT3 teaser ?
In particular what do people think about size of wing ?

mikey k

13,011 posts

215 months

Wednesday 7th January 2015
quotequote all
It will look nothing like that GT3 race car on the inside or the out wink