V12 GT3 update

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Discussion

carbonfib3r

Original Poster:

49 posts

110 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
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I have placed an order for the GT3 and seen the factory rendered illustrations. Virtually every panel is brand new, apart from the flared wheel arches and huge rear wing, the roof can be specified in carbon fiber, bonnet ventilation is as seen in the recently released shadowed image, an 'U' shaped carbon fiber cover , and both doors are caved to enhence aerodynamics.

Both front lower lip and rear wing are optional made of carbon fiber and painted in contrasting colour around the edges. What shocked me the most was the GT3 comes with new Vanquish centre console.

Unlike the Porsche GT3 RS to GT3. The changes made to the V12 GT3 comapred to the V12VS is so dramatice it can be seen as an entirely new car.

The only thing that lets the car down is still the gearbox which I tried on the track with a V12VS and was hugely disappointed. Upshift was simply unwilling and frustratinly awkward to engage.

I requested the factory to seriously consider offering manual as a no cost option much like what they had done to the last gen Vanquish, offering optional manul gearbox upgrade to the horrible original auto-box, my correspondent replied if there is enough interest they would certainly look into it.

I was just wondering given the choice, how many other potential GT3 owner would opt for the manual instead of sportshsift III?

Edited by carbonfib3r on Saturday 17th January 17:46

paddy328

2,902 posts

184 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
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Well, you're the first one to say they've ordered one. Make sure to keep us posted and don't forget pictures. Do you know what colour you're going to have it in yet?

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
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Fiber Fibre...

This Yankifisatasion of PH must stop forthwith....smile

JBaps

214 posts

124 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
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carbonfib3r said:
...
The only thing that lets the car down is still the gearbox which I tried on the track with a V12VS and was hugely disappointed. Upshift was simply unwilling and frustratinly awkward to engage.
I can only scratch my head when I see comments like this, gear changes are _extremely_ fast when you have your right foot buried, it is anything but reluctant. Now if you where driving sedately and didn't get the instructors advise to curl your toes backwards when you change up (to give a small lift), or your decided to put the box in auto mode, then I can understand the comment, but otherwise the gearbox is anything but slow.

Phil74891

1,064 posts

132 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
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JBaps said:
carbonfib3r said:
...
The only thing that lets the car down is still the gearbox which I tried on the track with a V12VS and was hugely disappointed. Upshift was simply unwilling and frustratinly awkward to engage.
I can only scratch my head when I see comments like this, gear changes are _extremely_ fast when you have your right foot buried, it is anything but reluctant. Now if you where driving sedately and didn't get the instructors advise to curl your toes backwards when you change up (to give a small lift), or your decided to put the box in auto mode, then I can understand the comment, but otherwise the gearbox is anything but slow.
I agree, I have a V12VS and I think the SSIII gearbox is excellent. Learn how to use it properly and it works great up and down the box at virtually any speed. (Faster the better mind). I would defy anyone to get even remotely close to the shifting times using a traditional manual box. It's not a PDK, but SSIII does not deserve the bad press it gets.

Aside from that, congratulations on the GT3 order. It should be an amazing car - even with a st gearbox smile

Gettoff

1,434 posts

206 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
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Fair play Barry for taking the plunge, I hope you manage to spec the car you really want and end up with something really special. It will be interesting to monitor progress, hopefully details and pictures will be forthcoming as earlier mentioned.

The Gearbox is a tricky one. It's a road car but erring more towards being a track car than a regular V12V/S, so if it was spending a fair amount of time there the SS3 would be the more logical choice. But for me, if the majority of use is on the road it would be the manual all the way.

KarlFranz

2,008 posts

269 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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mybrainhurts said:
Fiber Fibre...

This Yankifisatasion of PH must stop forthwith....smile
Yankifisatasion notwithstanding, one could argue that the british spelling looks as if it was created by a dyslexic. smile

hornbaek

3,670 posts

234 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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Quote: "It's not a PDK, but SSIII does not deserve the bad press it gets"

herein lies the problem and yes it does deserve the bad press because it is simply outdated. Put in a manual and people would forgive AML for not being on the forefront of technology but still produce well balanced powerful (analog) cars. And with Ferrari and Porsche clearly having gone the other route (because they can) Aston would even be able to steal some customers away from there because of a clear differentiation rather than a bad copy. Whoever does product strategy at AML should be fired.

George29

14,706 posts

163 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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KarlFranz said:
Yankifisatasion notwithstanding, one could argue that the british spelling looks as if it was created by a dyslexic. smile
The language is English... That means the English spell it right.

BamfordMike

1,192 posts

156 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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carbonfib3r said:
I requested the factory to seriously consider offering manual as a no cost option

Edited by carbonfib3r on Saturday 17th January 17:46
i think you could go as far as asking for a manual at a premium and the answer would still be a no.

reason, same as V12V Zagato hasn't got its own individual Vin # separate from V12V, neither can / will GT3, GT3 must be a continuation of V12VS to piggy-back V12VS homologation / entry to market legislation. Because V12VS never had manual, GT3 cant too, same for any other system, GT3 must very closely replicate V12VS. This is why engine power also can not be much different to V12VS, if it were to be they would have to re homologate. I can see them offering something like a de-cat pipe which is fitted at dealer and swerve legislation that way though. But if power increase comes from manufacturer they must plead with certification bodies that it doesn't affect emissions, which is tough to do, but their pleading with legislative bodies skills are well honed now i guess.

congrats on your purchase, will look and sound a fine car I'm sure

Edited by BamfordMike on Sunday 18th January 10:57

roughrider

975 posts

185 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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hornbaek said:
Quote: "It's not a PDK, but SSIII does not deserve the bad press it gets"

herein lies the problem and yes it does deserve the bad press because it is simply outdated. Put in a manual and people would forgive AML for not being on the forefront of technology but still produce well balanced powerful (analog) cars. And with Ferrari and Porsche clearly having gone the other route (because they can) Aston would even be able to steal some customers away from there because of a clear differentiation rather than a bad copy. Whoever does product strategy at AML should be fired.
Yet again!!

SS111 in "sport" mode, on FULL throttle, above 5500rpm, is how an F1 car was a few years ago, stunning! Unfortunately, there are ill informed journalists out there, that moan about a "sluggish box", while onboard footage shows they are not even in "sport" mode!! furious

SS111 gives a lot of choice and involvement. Most "double clutch" cars now have a "shift misfire" in the gearbox software to satisfy customers who complained about the system being too clinical. The F1 single dry clutch system also saves around 60Kg over a "double clutch" or full auto.

SS111 suits the character of the V12VS, and personally, i much prefer to have both hands on the wheel when i'm covering ground at the pace this car is capable of.

Its not everybody's cup of tea, and there's a lot of choice out there, but SS111 is great if you understand it.

W1111AM

942 posts

128 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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Hi Barry, you're the fist on PH to announce the ordering of one of these limited editions, we will be very excited to follow your journey to ownership - exciting, good for you!

BamfordMike

1,192 posts

156 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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roughrider said:
hornbaek said:
Quote: "It's not a PDK, but SSIII does not deserve the bad press it gets"

herein lies the problem and yes it does deserve the bad press because it is simply outdated. Put in a manual and people would forgive AML for not being on the forefront of technology but still produce well balanced powerful (analog) cars. And with Ferrari and Porsche clearly having gone the other route (because they can) Aston would even be able to steal some customers away from there because of a clear differentiation rather than a bad copy. Whoever does product strategy at AML should be fired.
Yet again!!

SS111 in "sport" mode, on FULL throttle, above 5500rpm, is how an F1 car was a few years ago, stunning! Unfortunately, there are ill informed journalists out there, that moan about a "sluggish box", while onboard footage shows they are not even in "sport" mode!! furious

SS111 gives a lot of choice and involvement. Most "double clutch" cars now have a "shift misfire" in the gearbox software to satisfy customers who complained about the system being too clinical. The F1 single dry clutch system also saves around 60Kg over a "double clutch" or full auto.

SS111 suits the character of the V12VS, and personally, i much prefer to have both hands on the wheel when i'm covering ground at the pace this car is capable of.

Its not everybody's cup of tea, and there's a lot of choice out there, but SS111 is great if you understand it.
To be fair to other posters who don't work for the factory, who post a more balanced view than yours, the comment made 'it does deserve bad press' is justified in similar statements made by professional impartial motoring journalists. It is Marmite, meaning it is take it or leave it, and the non option of a stick is a strategy I think you will see your new chief revert in future, together with dropping the robotised manual in favour of dct

Whilst there are some good points of the system which you highlight, you can't forget the negatives because it is those that make journalists and punters feel disappointed. To airbrush out the negatives is forgetting the reason for not going dct which is cost, robotised manual is the cheap option and to justify not going dct direction because of extra weight or other so called benefits of robotised manual is hiding the real reason - COST. There is no way any robotised manual system will compete a dct system, so you have to be happy with the Marmite end outcome, because dct was an option that could not be afforded. Meaning it is what it is so live with it. The fact you state that in reality you have to drive around it means it has some flaws, which would be fine I guess in a cheaper car.

Finally, Get an old vanquish at 70mph and cycle 4/5th gear changes and its shift is awesome, then demo to Customer manoeuvrability in car park going first to reverse, this is the airbrushing you do I refer to!

Edited by BamfordMike on Sunday 18th January 12:18

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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You will certainly have a very special and unique Vantage, Barry.
Please continue to tell us the story as it progresses.

I like a manual gearbox in my 4·7, but your car will be a road replica of a specific racing car. I don't know (please say someone), whether the racing GT3 uses an SS3. or a completely different sequential gearbox. Perhaps having an automated gearbox would be more appropriate to your car. Having driven a V12VSR on track, I liked the SS3, but I did not do any of the manoeuvring that would occur with a road car.

BamfordMike refers to the legislation that would be applicable to your car.
Most people seem to be so annoyed now, by either legislation without reason, or legislation that is enacted, but never enforced (note 1).

With a manual gearbox fitted, would that produce more emmisions than an automated manual gearbox? My guess would be there is no difference. If so, perhaps another example of legislation without reason.


Note 1. I watched (only briefly) a Parliamentary Select Committee meeting, where representatives of the packaging industry and fast food outlets, had to answer MPs questions about litter in streets. The MPs seemed to ignore the fact, that there already is an existing litter law.



Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 18th January 12:51

SELON

1,172 posts

128 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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Sounds like you're going to have a very rare car and hopefully it's exactly to your spec. One question that springs to mind when you ask about the manual and gear tech is: What's your prime purpose for the car? As a car for the road with occasional track use or vice versa, for example?

It's an interesting point that Roughrider makes about F1 cars and paddles...

One of the benefits of paddles/buttons in F1 cars - putting aside the underlying tech that performs the gear change - is the ability to keep two hands on the wheel when track driving/racing at the speeds these cars will be capable of.

It would seem to me that to get the optimum speed (and safety) these cars are capable of would mean paddles, not stick.

However if the preference is for more 'involvement' and not outright top lap time, the manual would seem to me to be a better option.

For me I still hanker after a manual, but being in a city and that crowded SE, the paddles suit me just fine. Especially sticking it into Sport and/or keeping the revs high when I want to have a bit more fun.

But the GT3 will be a completely different beast to mine!

Hopefully you get exactly what you want. And above all please don't hide it away when you get it.

Congratulations!



BamfordMike

1,192 posts

156 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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Jon39 said:
BamfordMike refers to the legislation that would be applicable to your car.
Most people seem to be so annoyed now, by either legislation without reason.

With a manual gearbox fitted, would that produce more emmisions than an automated manual gearbox? My guess would be there is no difference. If so, perhaps another example of legislation without reason.

]
I think the important reason of legislation in this case is that a maker has to conform to base model homologation which is type approved to create a special from. If makers were allowed to go off on a tangent for specials you would never see the homologation version in the shops!

For emissions the robotised manual is more or less same manual, the issue is that the auto is the cleanest because shift maps can be programmed to pass the test. rapide shifts vs DBS is good example here where same engine same box same platform car is programmed to give better emissions on rapide to offset greater weight. If rapide was manual that could not be done, the auto is in charge of how and when shifts occur. Hence the steer towards auto means not many companies pushing manual, and manual being more difficult to pass legislation means commitment from maker to peruse it. But in this example, if maker wanted to ditch robotised and go manual, it would mean new type approval, and with different body I'm sure legislative bodies would say, come on, this is a new car, meaning new homologation would then be crash test and all, and considering this is a special, would blow the budget.

This is why there isn't much hardware difference between any maker anymore, the battle is won in software to control the hardware that is only made by a few suppliers (ZF) and if their parts bin don't include manual, tough.

BravoV8V

1,858 posts

173 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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Jon39 said:
I don't know (please say someone), whether the racing GT3 uses an SS3. or a completely different sequential gearbox.
The GT3 Race car uses an Xtrac sequential transmission with semi-automatic paddle shift gear change:

http://www.astonmartin.com/en/racing/race-cars/van...

BamfordMike

1,192 posts

156 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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BravoV8V said:
The GT3 Race car uses an Xtrac sequential transmission with semi-automatic paddle shift gear change:

http://www.astonmartin.com/en/racing/race-cars/van...
yep.

which means when you dissect this, its more or less v12v to Zagato - V12Vs to gt3. Which is no bad thing, but to call it gt3 is a bit of a stretch.

hornbaek

3,670 posts

234 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
quotequote all
roughrider said:
Yet again!!

SS111 in "sport" mode, on FULL throttle, above 5500rpm, is how an F1 car was a few years ago, stunning! Unfortunately, there are ill informed journalists out there, that moan about a "sluggish box", while onboard footage shows they are not even in "sport" mode!! furious

SS111 gives a lot of choice and involvement. Most "double clutch" cars now have a "shift misfire" in the gearbox software to satisfy customers who complained about the system being too clinical. The F1 single dry clutch system also saves around 60Kg over a "double clutch" or full auto.

SS111 suits the character of the V12VS, and personally, i much prefer to have both hands on the wheel when i'm covering ground at the pace this car is capable of.

Its not everybody's cup of tea, and there's a lot of choice out there, but SS111 is great if you understand it.
I do get it. It seems that you are the one not getting it. How often are you at "full throttle above 5500 rpm" as opposed to manoeuvring around in a car park and standing in a queue ? The gearbox was the achilles heel of the original Vanquish and it now seems that AML has learned absolutely nothing in those 15 years. Not impressed. And yes I have driven/owned all the cars mentioned (obviously not the V12 GT3)

roughrider

975 posts

185 months

Sunday 18th January 2015
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hornbaek said:
I do get it. It seems that you are the one not getting it. How often are you at "full throttle above 5500 rpm" as opposed to manoeuvring around in a car park and standing in a queue ? The gearbox was the achilles heel of the original Vanquish and it now seems that AML has learned absolutely nothing in those 15 years. Not impressed. And yes I have driven/owned all the cars mentioned (obviously not the V12 GT3)
I am simply stating that the shifts are not slow, and that there are several modes to choose from, depending on how you want to drive. Unfortunately, negativity can come from journalism, rather than from informed experience. The original Vanquish was awesome, but pioneering new technology alongside Alfa, Ferrari etc, needed some time for evolution.