V12 GT3 update
Discussion
The more I read the more I think it's got nothing to do with building the ultimate car, it's just marketing and vanity aimed at owners who's skill is already well behind what a V12V can deliver. The lined up carbon trim, the new Nav and media centre, the nods to a greater sporting donor but they are nods. It doesn't matter if bamford rose can make a quicker car, that not actually the primary purpose of the car.. We already have regular cars turn up for sale with virtually no miles on them, add a limited production run, and these cars will end up in collectors garages or as a toy for a Chinese industrialists son.
To continue my defence of Aston Martin; they desperately need to sell new cars. Should they have to put part of their production facility back in mothballs due to a shrinking order book the adverse publicity would be even more detrimental. I think by now we all realise that this new V12 GT3 is little more than a parts bin special. Astons marketing strategy would seem to include pumping money into their race programme and then producing vehicles that simulate their race cars; looks alone will be enough to have people reaching for their wallets. If this policy contributes to them surviving the next 20 months or so has must be a good thing.
I am surprised that some people on this forum seem to choose to knock the factory's latest efforts. Also making adverse remarks about Marek's dress code does seem churlish and inappropriate . Maybe he has more important things things on his mind than matching shoes and belts! My daughter and I have met him, he lives and breathes Aston Martin !!
I am surprised that some people on this forum seem to choose to knock the factory's latest efforts. Also making adverse remarks about Marek's dress code does seem churlish and inappropriate . Maybe he has more important things things on his mind than matching shoes and belts! My daughter and I have met him, he lives and breathes Aston Martin !!
The last two posts by the Jo(h)ns kind of sum up much of my own feeling
I think you are both spot on that AM haven't really been that serious about certain areas and in particular, weight saving
For instance, rather like Porsche have done on some of their most extreme road cars where they replace an enamel badge with a sticker, the Aston has CF rather than enamel badges. But I'd bet if there is any weight saving, it's less than the weight difference that would transpire from ordering salad instead of steak for lunch before I get back in the car
I can forgive it in the Porsche because they have genuinely stripped out the vast majority of the 'fat' in the car. So it's a nod to that policy - it highlights what they have done with the car as a whole. But with the Aston, they have then replaced the door handles with leather loops. Porsche do it and put in ultra lightweight simple fabric pulls with a proper (albeit small) weight saving. In the instance of this Aston, the leather door pulls looks so elaborate (and admittedly lovely) that if anything, I'd guess they weigh more than the conventional handles they replace
Likewise, why put in that stunning race derived/inspired one piece carbon centre console and then fit it with glass switches ! Surely areas like the switches & the pulls, if they did it in lots of areas, would overall make a meaningful contribution to weight saving ? Yes it would be expensive to engineer/tool, but this is an expensive car !
I suspect part of the reason they didn't go down the more extreme route on this car is financial, but partly because they didn't want to abandon the 'Astoness' of this car
So maybe some will say but yes, it's not really an ultimate extreme track car - it's a car that will be fun on track but will also make a great drivers car away from the track. I would say in return, what about that bl**dy front splitter ! (Yes I have OCD about this issue but I'd love to hear from any V12V owner who feels they could cope on public roads with a more pronounced splitter than their current one AND a lowered chassis ?).
I think you are both spot on that AM haven't really been that serious about certain areas and in particular, weight saving
For instance, rather like Porsche have done on some of their most extreme road cars where they replace an enamel badge with a sticker, the Aston has CF rather than enamel badges. But I'd bet if there is any weight saving, it's less than the weight difference that would transpire from ordering salad instead of steak for lunch before I get back in the car
I can forgive it in the Porsche because they have genuinely stripped out the vast majority of the 'fat' in the car. So it's a nod to that policy - it highlights what they have done with the car as a whole. But with the Aston, they have then replaced the door handles with leather loops. Porsche do it and put in ultra lightweight simple fabric pulls with a proper (albeit small) weight saving. In the instance of this Aston, the leather door pulls looks so elaborate (and admittedly lovely) that if anything, I'd guess they weigh more than the conventional handles they replace
Likewise, why put in that stunning race derived/inspired one piece carbon centre console and then fit it with glass switches ! Surely areas like the switches & the pulls, if they did it in lots of areas, would overall make a meaningful contribution to weight saving ? Yes it would be expensive to engineer/tool, but this is an expensive car !
I suspect part of the reason they didn't go down the more extreme route on this car is financial, but partly because they didn't want to abandon the 'Astoness' of this car
So maybe some will say but yes, it's not really an ultimate extreme track car - it's a car that will be fun on track but will also make a great drivers car away from the track. I would say in return, what about that bl**dy front splitter ! (Yes I have OCD about this issue but I'd love to hear from any V12V owner who feels they could cope on public roads with a more pronounced splitter than their current one AND a lowered chassis ?).
robgt3 said:
To continue my defence of Aston Martin; they desperately need to sell new cars. Should they have to put part of their production facility back in mothballs due to a shrinking order book the adverse publicity would be even more detrimental. I think by now we all realise that this new V12 GT3 is little more than a parts bin special. Astons marketing strategy would seem to include pumping money into their race programme and then producing vehicles that simulate their race cars; looks alone will be enough to have people reaching for their wallets. If this policy contributes to them surviving the next 20 months or so has must be a good thing.
I am surprised that some people on this forum seem to choose to knock the factory's latest efforts. Also making adverse remarks about Marek's dress code does seem churlish and inappropriate . Maybe he has more important things things on his mind than matching shoes and belts! My daughter and I have met him, he lives and breathes Aston Martin !!
Rob, I'm not knocking it. I'm just calling it for what it is to me. There's just a tad too much marketing going on rather than letting the product speak for itself and thats what I'm not a fan of. I do however much prefer this than the cheaper variants with plastic instead of carbon as this car drags up the Aston price point and exclusivity which I like. I don't profess to understand all these GT classes and I doubt I'd buy it even if I had the cash for that kind of indulgence. I certainly wouldn't buy it because it has an alcantara steering wheel and the carbon lines up. I've seen an F1 car up very close and personal for quite a time and there's something about the rawness thats very appealing, I wish it had a bit more of that. I am surprised that some people on this forum seem to choose to knock the factory's latest efforts. Also making adverse remarks about Marek's dress code does seem churlish and inappropriate . Maybe he has more important things things on his mind than matching shoes and belts! My daughter and I have met him, he lives and breathes Aston Martin !!
Marek is strutting his stuff and looks like he's trying to be the Jony Ive of the auto world.
Jonby, I specced my GT3 with a front axle lifter axle lifter. Think it was about £2k. Could AM not offer it as an option? They would probably charge 3 times as much, though it would still be cost efficient. Why don't offer lithium batteries as well . 25Kgms weight saving straight away. Non electric heated seats, another 50Kgms gone! Replace them with the very best CF offerings upholstered in their finest alcantara. ( 50% lighter than leather) .
robgt3 said:
Also making adverse remarks about Marek's dress code does seem churlish and inappropriate . Maybe he has more important things things on his mind than matching shoes and belts! My daughter and I have met him, he lives and breathes Aston Martin !!
Just an attempt at levity, Rob, amongst all the spec-for-spec V8 road car vs V12 road car vs GT3 vs GT4 vs GTE etc etc :yawn:I think Reichman's a genius. I've never met him, but I'm a fan of his work, especially considering the budgetary and platform constraints under which him and his team work.
I also imagine he couldn't give a s
t as to what I think about his leather matching. In fact, I'm surprised he doesn't wear alcantara shoes... 
Jon1967x said:
Rob, I'm not knocking it. I'm just calling it for what it is to me. There's just a tad too much marketing going on rather than letting the product speak for itself and thats what I'm not a fan of. I do however much prefer this than the cheaper variants with plastic instead of carbon as this car drags up the Aston price point and exclusivity which I like. I don't profess to understand all these GT classes and I doubt I'd buy it even if I had the cash for that kind of indulgence. I certainly wouldn't buy it because it has an alcantara steering wheel and the carbon lines up. I've seen an F1 car up very close and personal for quite a time and there's something about the rawness thats very appealing, I wish it had a bit more of that.
Marek is strutting his stuff and looks like he's trying to be the Jony Ive of the auto world.
Hate Alcantara steering wheels, my red car has a proper leather one. The sweat of fear makes the alcantara versions go manky! Marek is strutting his stuff and looks like he's trying to be the Jony Ive of the auto world.
Despite what people advise baby wipes do not work!robgt3 said:
Hate Alcantara steering wheels, my red car has a proper leather one. The sweat of fear makes the alcantara versions go manky! Despite what people advise baby wipes do not work!
...but its 50% lighter and reduces the inertia in the steering wheel and thereby allows quicker direction changes... Despite what people advise baby wipes do not work!Jon1967x said:
robgt3 said:
Hate Alcantara steering wheels, my red car has a proper leather one. The sweat of fear makes the alcantara versions go manky! Despite what people advise baby wipes do not work!
...but its 50% lighter and reduces the inertia in the steering wheel and thereby allows quicker direction changes... Despite what people advise baby wipes do not work!
Here are a couple of informative videos showing how the Aston Martin GT3 race cars are built.
The wonderful Rosanna Tennant has one of her 'moments' in the first one, when she sees an engine block with spikes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srUqoPkn8yU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIrelkNzdLU
One point revealed is how good the basic chassis tub is, because it remains almost the same as our standard cars.
We have made a few adverse comments about the road going GT3, but I think it is about right. There is only so far a manufacturer can sensibly go, when creating a 'race type' car, that still remains comfortable and suitable for use on public roads. It has created further interest in the brand, to hopefully sell additional cars. Also clever to announce now, then have some more publicity when the Vulcan is introduced, rather than announce the two together.
I agree with most of the points on this. Could the car been a more stripped out track day car? Sure. But I think MR explained where they were coming from with their thinking. It's a reflection of their track cars and track successes.
If it keeps them in business and the customers of this car are happy, then what's wrong with that? If it keeps them in business long enough to produce the new models that satisfy other parts of the customer base, then even better.
It's tough for Aston to be compared to Porsche and perhaps not entirely fair - especially the GT3.
I'm old enough to recall when 'new' 911 reviews included warning about going around roundabouts with the risk of death! The 968CS was received with mixed reception at the time of launch, but now it's a classic. That's all now just part of their colourful heritage and appeal.
Aston are 'brave' in some ways, launching this and inviting the paper based comparisons. But they do have a racing pedigree so they shouldn't be afraid of launching their own take on it.
I look forward to the next model and, judging by some of the comments on here, there is pent up demand for a really stripped out light weight V8/12 lower cost track oriented car.
In the meantime I hope to hear from a lucky customer what one of these GT3s actually drives like when they get the chance. Who knows it might be quite good...
If it keeps them in business and the customers of this car are happy, then what's wrong with that? If it keeps them in business long enough to produce the new models that satisfy other parts of the customer base, then even better.
It's tough for Aston to be compared to Porsche and perhaps not entirely fair - especially the GT3.
I'm old enough to recall when 'new' 911 reviews included warning about going around roundabouts with the risk of death! The 968CS was received with mixed reception at the time of launch, but now it's a classic. That's all now just part of their colourful heritage and appeal.
Aston are 'brave' in some ways, launching this and inviting the paper based comparisons. But they do have a racing pedigree so they shouldn't be afraid of launching their own take on it.
I look forward to the next model and, judging by some of the comments on here, there is pent up demand for a really stripped out light weight V8/12 lower cost track oriented car.
In the meantime I hope to hear from a lucky customer what one of these GT3s actually drives like when they get the chance. Who knows it might be quite good...
SELON said:
I agree with most of the points on this. Could the car been a more stripped out track day car? Sure. But I think MR explained where they were coming from with their thinking. It's a reflection of their track cars and track successes.
If it keeps them in business and the customers of this car are happy, then what's wrong with that? If it keeps them in business long enough to produce the new models that satisfy other parts of the customer base, then even better.
It's tough for Aston to be compared to Porsche and perhaps not entirely fair - especially the GT3.
I'm old enough to recall when 'new' 911 reviews included warning about going around roundabouts with the risk of death! The 968CS was received with mixed reception at the time of launch, but now it's a classic. That's all now just part of their colourful heritage and appeal.
Aston are 'brave' in some ways, launching this and inviting the paper based comparisons. But they do have a racing pedigree so they shouldn't be afraid of launching their own take on it.
I look forward to the next model and, judging by some of the comments on here, there is pent up demand for a really stripped out light weight V8/12 lower cost track oriented car.
In the meantime I hope to hear from a lucky customer what one of these GT3s actually drives like when they get the chance. Who knows it might be quite good...
It will be much better than quite good it will be "Wonderfull, Wonderfull" to quote Mr. Clarkson. Selon , I wholeheartedly agree with all that you have said.If it keeps them in business and the customers of this car are happy, then what's wrong with that? If it keeps them in business long enough to produce the new models that satisfy other parts of the customer base, then even better.
It's tough for Aston to be compared to Porsche and perhaps not entirely fair - especially the GT3.
I'm old enough to recall when 'new' 911 reviews included warning about going around roundabouts with the risk of death! The 968CS was received with mixed reception at the time of launch, but now it's a classic. That's all now just part of their colourful heritage and appeal.
Aston are 'brave' in some ways, launching this and inviting the paper based comparisons. But they do have a racing pedigree so they shouldn't be afraid of launching their own take on it.
I look forward to the next model and, judging by some of the comments on here, there is pent up demand for a really stripped out light weight V8/12 lower cost track oriented car.
In the meantime I hope to hear from a lucky customer what one of these GT3s actually drives like when they get the chance. Who knows it might be quite good...
AdamV8V said:
I think Reichman's a genius. I've never met him, but I'm a fan of his work, especially considering the budgetary and platform constraints under which him and his team work.
The core design work of the DB's and Vantage predates himI'll give him credit for the CC100 but most of his other creations are not good
Late to the party but after watching a couple of clips of it I really like it. If I were in the fortunate position to buy one I'd be deleting the wing, having a big of a sleeper paint configuration and generally toning it down (must be old and boring these days).
Hopefully we'll see Chris Harris or the TG guys having a bit of a blast in it soon!
Hopefully we'll see Chris Harris or the TG guys having a bit of a blast in it soon!
I wonder why AM did not instead invest some money in giving the V8 Vantage range a "leg up" (1) to maintain/boost sales before the AMG versions arrive. I don't see how a £260k limited car would have anywhere near the same effect.
(1) for example:
metal seat switches from the DB9
more power/torque
even fruitier exhaust
adaptive damping
ASM III
(1) for example:
metal seat switches from the DB9
more power/torque
even fruitier exhaust
adaptive damping
ASM III
SFO said:
I wonder why AM did not instead invest some money in giving the V8 Vantage range a "leg up" (1) to maintain/boost sales before the AMG versions arrive. I don't see how a £260k limited car would have anywhere near the same effect.
(1) for example:
metal seat switches from the DB9
more power/torque
even fruitier exhaust
adaptive damping
ASM III
Oh they will (1) for example:
metal seat switches from the DB9
more power/torque
even fruitier exhaust
adaptive damping
ASM III
Someone is right now working out what combination of parts from what bins they can make fit together
You simply can't please everyone. Some want options that others don't etc. It will be a stunning car, and will be stunningly quick around a circuit, while also being easy to live with on the road.
The fact that all deposits are taken, and i know of at least one other trying to get on the lengthening reserve list, shows that the project has pleased at least 100 people.
I would confidently say, that Aston Martins road cars, are probably more closely related to its race cars, than any other manufacturer. Thats why any owner looks forward to getting back behind the wheel.
[All my personal opinions!!!!]
The fact that all deposits are taken, and i know of at least one other trying to get on the lengthening reserve list, shows that the project has pleased at least 100 people.
I would confidently say, that Aston Martins road cars, are probably more closely related to its race cars, than any other manufacturer. Thats why any owner looks forward to getting back behind the wheel.
[All my personal opinions!!!!]
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