V12 GT3 update
Discussion
GT3 pictured, is very contrived, it has many visual dynamics of speed and aggression, at the cost of class. Most of this I think is lost in the orange colour on white. Nissan would be proud of this colour scheme.
The Volcan however is a sight to behold...
I would love to see both in real life.
The Volcan however is a sight to behold...
I would love to see both in real life.
BravoV8V said:
W1111AM said:
I would love to see both in real life.
Easily done. A day return ticket to Geneva. Then a short walk from the airport.I gave myself 6 hours at the show yesterday (on my way back home via Geneva). I ran out of things to see after about 3 hours.
jonby said:
Really ! Alfa c4 spider, audi R8, new RS3, merc G500 squared thingy, merc maybach, new morgan, new evora, McLaren 675lt, McLaren GTR, Ferrari 488, lambo SV, 4 new Astons, Porsche GT4, Porsche GT3RS, merc gt GT3, 3 new RUFs, Honda nsx, Honda civic type R - that's just a quick off the top of my head list - best Geneva in years ! ;-)
Yep, saw most (if not all) of those. They are all nice cars but I just need to see them; I don't need to study or worship them. 
Anyway, if I want to see them in action, I'll just have to head down to Knightsbridge during next Ramadan.
BravoV8V said:
jonby said:
Really ! Alfa c4 spider, audi R8, new RS3, merc G500 squared thingy, merc maybach, new morgan, new evora, McLaren 675lt, McLaren GTR, Ferrari 488, lambo SV, 4 new Astons, Porsche GT4, Porsche GT3RS, merc gt GT3, 3 new RUFs, Honda nsx, Honda civic type R - that's just a quick off the top of my head list - best Geneva in years ! ;-)
Yep, saw most (if not all) of those. They are all nice cars but I just need to see them; I don't need to study or worship them. Anyway, if I want to see them in action, I'll just have to head down to Knightsbridge during next Ramadan.
I tend to find at geneva there are normally at least half a dozen stands/cars which I'll spend 30-60 minutes each at, especially at the smaller manufacturers like RUF, mclaren, caterham and Pagani where you get to speak to people who really understand the cars, as opposed to say Aston, where this year there are several cars to really pore over, but the stand in recent years has been manned by the local swiss dealership rather than actual Aston factory people like they used to do
Well, back from a great show but unfortunately, Aston were nowhere near my highlights....
Apologies for the very long post - hard to do a review of such a big show in a brief post
I have to say, considering they had more new cars than anyone else and on the face of it, some pretty exciting stuff, my trip actually just highlighted how much work there is to do for AM. It probably wasn't helped by the fact we had passes for quite a few stands (Aston, Rolls, Bentley, Lambo, Giyckenhaus, Ferrari, Porsche, Mclaren to name just some) and as per the last few years, the Aston stand was manned by the local dealership who are pretty clueless when it comes to knowing the cars or how to make you or the brand feel special - top marks as per usual to Mclaren & Rolls Royce for being the exact opposite with incredibly knowledge, helpful, hospitable staff and in particular for Rolls, an amazing stand backstage which puts all the others to shame
It also didn't help that the redesigned AM stand (for the first time in a few years) didn't work IMO, with the cars feeling like they had insufficient space round them, really poor lighting in parts (especially the DBX) and it's worth saying again, cold poorly trained staff who seemed to forget that we were actually customers of the brand
Taking the cars one by one, I'll start with Taraf. On the outside, I think it looks stunning. I wasn't sold by the rear lights & detailing around/between same but in general, I think the shape works incredibly well in the flesh and has some fab details. But inside, joke is an understatement. The rear passenger compartment does have decent (but far from incredible considering the overall size) legroom but it has a wide central console, sports seats from the Rapide and it felt claustrophobic for a big saloon. I mentioned to the salesman it had the rear seats from a Rapide and he said no it doesn't, pointing at the legroom. I asked to see the boot and was flabbergasted - it's tiny ! Not big enough to take a single decent size suitcase (well it probably is in volume, but not in shape). Yes it's of course bigger than anything else in the line up but tiny compared to any run of the mill mid size exec saloon - genuinely astonishing
Vulcan looked impressive, but unfortunately so far from production difficult to know what to say. The front splitter was too long/low to take the Apex of a corner with a rumble strip and the glasshouse was obviously very pre-production, with no interior to speak of so again, as I say difficult to really comment. Didn't help that we had a really close look at the SCG003 which is a similar price and about 27 leagues above the Aston in every single aspect, other than the flame spitting exhausts & the rear lights which are the 2 standout features on Vulcan
I like the look of the DBX but I can see why it divides option. More finished than the Vulcan in some ways, it still had detailing that I assume won't make production, like the wheels, dash, seats or the strange shapes on the rear shelf that look like they came out of a concept car 10 years ago predicting what might be made now. Bottom line is I see DBX as an announcement about a direction the firm are going regarding a possible new segment for them, but wouldn't read too much into much else about the car. I thought the interior was the most stunning of any car at the show, but would be very pleasantly surprised if it ever hit the roads like that - if it did, that alone would persuade me to buy one
And of course V12 GT3. The paint scheme looks no less Halfords than in the photos and the front splitter looks even more impractical than I thought it would. The back & rear windows were plastic (the big weight saving option) which I get in isolation, but not when there were other more obvious ways to save weight that they haven't taken. There are some nice details to it and I suspect it will drive very well indeed but in general, just looked very contrived, over priced, under endowed power/weight & just too far behind the competition. If an owner forgets the price (or doesn't drive it so it makes a good investment) and doesn't worry about what else is available in the market, then I'm sure they will thoroughly enjoy their car
Highlights & lowlights elsewhere: Was looking forward to seeing NSX & Civic type R - NSX looked too American and compared to the very similar in concept i8, really naff. But not as naff as the type R which really did look like they had done a smash & grab from the parts bin at Halfords
Loved the Renault RS thingy race car. New Merc GT looked pretty good and more 'delicately' styled than the SLS but as a result, loses the impact SLS has. Can see it as a great DD, but didn't get the juices flowing. New Ferrari 488 a little underwhelming in the flesh but looked heaps better in grey than in red (they had one of each side by side). Inside & out, F12 sat alongside it was much nicer IMHO
Interior of the new Bentley Continental (well facelifted I guess) was mighty impressive - the car has come along an awful lot since it was first produced and had a genuinely classy feel to it in every way. Surprised our entire group with just how good the execution was. Mind you, Rolls were a league above again - now that really is an example of craftsmanship that makes the Aston interiors look somewhat second class
The Mclaren 675 LT was hugely impressive. For the same money as the Vantage GT3, now there is a true track car. Not just the numbers, which are jaw dropping, but the execution & the details - if I was spending £250k on a track car, no question whatsoever that's where my money would go. Talking about track cars, got up close & personal with the 2 new Porsche GTs and both looked great value for great cars. Although one small thing is the new GT3RS had a lot of black plasticky bits on the outside and in particular, the vents in front of the rear wheel arches, that made the car look cheap. Having said that, it's £130kish which isn't cheap, but is a lot cheaper than some of the other cars with similar performance
Going back to Mclaren, the GTR looked incredible, as expected. Pagani Huayra looked as impressive as ever - when you get in one and study the detail, it's mind boggling
Maserati had nothing new, Lotus Evora looked way behind the times, Alfa 4C targa looked really bad in the flesh ( the roof opening is only about 15-18" long front to back & looked ridiculous), Lambo SV just looked like what it was - an aventador with a few tacky parts stuck on
Stars of the show for me without question were Glickenhaus (what a machine !) and RUF, in the latter instance, pretty much everything on the stand. They had 3 new cars all based on the 991 - RTR which is twin turbocharged metzger engine with 800bhp, 4WD & RUF's own 6 speed manual, CGT 4.2 which is their take on a GT3 but again, with a 6 speed manual and this time, an enlarged GT3 engine with 525bhp and RWD plus a twin turbo targa with 630bhp. Plus their real star, a 964 with a 420ish bhp turbo engine (they will still convert your 964 today to this spec - c. £250k).
Apologies for the very long post - hard to do a review of such a big show in a brief post
I have to say, considering they had more new cars than anyone else and on the face of it, some pretty exciting stuff, my trip actually just highlighted how much work there is to do for AM. It probably wasn't helped by the fact we had passes for quite a few stands (Aston, Rolls, Bentley, Lambo, Giyckenhaus, Ferrari, Porsche, Mclaren to name just some) and as per the last few years, the Aston stand was manned by the local dealership who are pretty clueless when it comes to knowing the cars or how to make you or the brand feel special - top marks as per usual to Mclaren & Rolls Royce for being the exact opposite with incredibly knowledge, helpful, hospitable staff and in particular for Rolls, an amazing stand backstage which puts all the others to shame
It also didn't help that the redesigned AM stand (for the first time in a few years) didn't work IMO, with the cars feeling like they had insufficient space round them, really poor lighting in parts (especially the DBX) and it's worth saying again, cold poorly trained staff who seemed to forget that we were actually customers of the brand
Taking the cars one by one, I'll start with Taraf. On the outside, I think it looks stunning. I wasn't sold by the rear lights & detailing around/between same but in general, I think the shape works incredibly well in the flesh and has some fab details. But inside, joke is an understatement. The rear passenger compartment does have decent (but far from incredible considering the overall size) legroom but it has a wide central console, sports seats from the Rapide and it felt claustrophobic for a big saloon. I mentioned to the salesman it had the rear seats from a Rapide and he said no it doesn't, pointing at the legroom. I asked to see the boot and was flabbergasted - it's tiny ! Not big enough to take a single decent size suitcase (well it probably is in volume, but not in shape). Yes it's of course bigger than anything else in the line up but tiny compared to any run of the mill mid size exec saloon - genuinely astonishing
Vulcan looked impressive, but unfortunately so far from production difficult to know what to say. The front splitter was too long/low to take the Apex of a corner with a rumble strip and the glasshouse was obviously very pre-production, with no interior to speak of so again, as I say difficult to really comment. Didn't help that we had a really close look at the SCG003 which is a similar price and about 27 leagues above the Aston in every single aspect, other than the flame spitting exhausts & the rear lights which are the 2 standout features on Vulcan
I like the look of the DBX but I can see why it divides option. More finished than the Vulcan in some ways, it still had detailing that I assume won't make production, like the wheels, dash, seats or the strange shapes on the rear shelf that look like they came out of a concept car 10 years ago predicting what might be made now. Bottom line is I see DBX as an announcement about a direction the firm are going regarding a possible new segment for them, but wouldn't read too much into much else about the car. I thought the interior was the most stunning of any car at the show, but would be very pleasantly surprised if it ever hit the roads like that - if it did, that alone would persuade me to buy one
And of course V12 GT3. The paint scheme looks no less Halfords than in the photos and the front splitter looks even more impractical than I thought it would. The back & rear windows were plastic (the big weight saving option) which I get in isolation, but not when there were other more obvious ways to save weight that they haven't taken. There are some nice details to it and I suspect it will drive very well indeed but in general, just looked very contrived, over priced, under endowed power/weight & just too far behind the competition. If an owner forgets the price (or doesn't drive it so it makes a good investment) and doesn't worry about what else is available in the market, then I'm sure they will thoroughly enjoy their car
Highlights & lowlights elsewhere: Was looking forward to seeing NSX & Civic type R - NSX looked too American and compared to the very similar in concept i8, really naff. But not as naff as the type R which really did look like they had done a smash & grab from the parts bin at Halfords
Loved the Renault RS thingy race car. New Merc GT looked pretty good and more 'delicately' styled than the SLS but as a result, loses the impact SLS has. Can see it as a great DD, but didn't get the juices flowing. New Ferrari 488 a little underwhelming in the flesh but looked heaps better in grey than in red (they had one of each side by side). Inside & out, F12 sat alongside it was much nicer IMHO
Interior of the new Bentley Continental (well facelifted I guess) was mighty impressive - the car has come along an awful lot since it was first produced and had a genuinely classy feel to it in every way. Surprised our entire group with just how good the execution was. Mind you, Rolls were a league above again - now that really is an example of craftsmanship that makes the Aston interiors look somewhat second class
The Mclaren 675 LT was hugely impressive. For the same money as the Vantage GT3, now there is a true track car. Not just the numbers, which are jaw dropping, but the execution & the details - if I was spending £250k on a track car, no question whatsoever that's where my money would go. Talking about track cars, got up close & personal with the 2 new Porsche GTs and both looked great value for great cars. Although one small thing is the new GT3RS had a lot of black plasticky bits on the outside and in particular, the vents in front of the rear wheel arches, that made the car look cheap. Having said that, it's £130kish which isn't cheap, but is a lot cheaper than some of the other cars with similar performance
Going back to Mclaren, the GTR looked incredible, as expected. Pagani Huayra looked as impressive as ever - when you get in one and study the detail, it's mind boggling
Maserati had nothing new, Lotus Evora looked way behind the times, Alfa 4C targa looked really bad in the flesh ( the roof opening is only about 15-18" long front to back & looked ridiculous), Lambo SV just looked like what it was - an aventador with a few tacky parts stuck on
Stars of the show for me without question were Glickenhaus (what a machine !) and RUF, in the latter instance, pretty much everything on the stand. They had 3 new cars all based on the 991 - RTR which is twin turbocharged metzger engine with 800bhp, 4WD & RUF's own 6 speed manual, CGT 4.2 which is their take on a GT3 but again, with a 6 speed manual and this time, an enlarged GT3 engine with 525bhp and RWD plus a twin turbo targa with 630bhp. Plus their real star, a 964 with a 420ish bhp turbo engine (they will still convert your 964 today to this spec - c. £250k).
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