Discussion
and for lovers of the iconic grille...
"Reichman says the front-end design provides big clues to the future of Aston’s sports cars, doing away with a traditional grille. “This will be a huge influence for our future sports cars,” he said. “The face of the cars in particular, although we have time to develop that.
“We will take on board a much more athletic appearance for future sports cars than now. There will be more shock and surprise, more form following function with more aero and technical influence.”
"Reichman says the front-end design provides big clues to the future of Aston’s sports cars, doing away with a traditional grille. “This will be a huge influence for our future sports cars,” he said. “The face of the cars in particular, although we have time to develop that.
“We will take on board a much more athletic appearance for future sports cars than now. There will be more shock and surprise, more form following function with more aero and technical influence.”
hashluck said:
and for lovers of the iconic grille...
"Reichman says the front-end design provides big clues to the future of Aston’s sports cars, doing away with a traditional grille. “This will be a huge influence for our future sports cars,” he said. “The face of the cars in particular, although we have time to develop that.
“We will take on board a much more athletic appearance for future sports cars than now. There will be more shock and surprise, more form following function with more aero and technical influence.”
Losing the iconic Aston Martin design signatures of the last 50+ years is very risky, especially when Aston has interpreted these "iconic" elements so well into contemporary models like the DB9 and the Vantage. Successful contemporary interpretation of iconic design is a core element of all luxury goods - ask Louis Vuitton, Cartier. By all means evolve, but gradually. "Reichman says the front-end design provides big clues to the future of Aston’s sports cars, doing away with a traditional grille. “This will be a huge influence for our future sports cars,” he said. “The face of the cars in particular, although we have time to develop that.
“We will take on board a much more athletic appearance for future sports cars than now. There will be more shock and surprise, more form following function with more aero and technical influence.”
For all those talking about design language, I'd say firstly amongst the articles (read car, autocar & evo all online and between them, you get a good picture) that AM make clear they are looking to differentiate going forward far more between the 'sports cars' and the 'GTs' - as a result design language on these latest cars may influence all future models but is likely to be far more relevant to the sportier models going forward than the GTs
Also, I don't see the total departure that some see. The side strakes for instance (on Vulcan) follow the pattern that started with CC100 and was expanded upon with the latest Vantage GT3. The rear lights and to extent the front ones are straight from DP100. There are some other cues too.
The other common post in this thread appears to be along the lines of it's not competitive with FXX, why by 2, etc. I'd point people to my long post earlier in the thread - this cannot be seen as direct competition with those cars but it is different. You can't take FXX K home and as I understand it, you can only use it on a set of 6 or so annual track days pre determined and set by Ferrari. I'd hate to think what Ferrari charge annually for all that
But you can take Vulcan home, you can use it on any track day/event you wish, plus use it for FIA races where it fits from a compliance point of view (including being able to dial down the power) and you can theoretically go for single type approval to drive it on the road. You definitely have a much slower car than P1 GTR but you can use it far more often/differently/more cheaply. It is therefore a different proposition
Oh and it has side exiting flame spitting exhausts ! Isn't that on it's own enough ? :-)
Also, I don't see the total departure that some see. The side strakes for instance (on Vulcan) follow the pattern that started with CC100 and was expanded upon with the latest Vantage GT3. The rear lights and to extent the front ones are straight from DP100. There are some other cues too.
The other common post in this thread appears to be along the lines of it's not competitive with FXX, why by 2, etc. I'd point people to my long post earlier in the thread - this cannot be seen as direct competition with those cars but it is different. You can't take FXX K home and as I understand it, you can only use it on a set of 6 or so annual track days pre determined and set by Ferrari. I'd hate to think what Ferrari charge annually for all that
But you can take Vulcan home, you can use it on any track day/event you wish, plus use it for FIA races where it fits from a compliance point of view (including being able to dial down the power) and you can theoretically go for single type approval to drive it on the road. You definitely have a much slower car than P1 GTR but you can use it far more often/differently/more cheaply. It is therefore a different proposition
Oh and it has side exiting flame spitting exhausts ! Isn't that on it's own enough ? :-)
jonby said:
For all those talking about design language, I'd say firstly amongst the articles (read car, autocar & evo all online and between them, you get a good picture) that AM make clear they are looking to differentiate going forward far more between the 'sports cars' and the 'GTs' - as a result design language on these latest cars may influence all future models but is likely to be far more relevant to the sportier models going forward than the GTs
Also, I don't see the total departure that some see. The side strakes for instance (on Vulcan) follow the pattern that started with CC100 and was expanded upon with the latest Vantage GT3. The rear lights and to extent the front ones are straight from DP100. There are some other cues too.
The other common post in this thread appears to be along the lines of it's not competitive with FXX, why by 2, etc. I'd point people to my long post earlier in the thread - this cannot be seen as direct competition with those cars but it is different. You can't take FXX K home and as I understand it, you can only use it on a set of 6 or so annual track days pre determined and set by Ferrari. I'd hate to think what Ferrari charge annually for all that
But you can take Vulcan home, you can use it on any track day/event you wish, plus use it for FIA races where it fits from a compliance point of view (including being able to dial down the power) and you can theoretically go for single type approval to drive it on the road. You definitely have a much slower car than P1 GTR but you can use it far more often/differently/more cheaply. It is therefore a different proposition
Oh and it has side exiting flame spitting exhausts ! Isn't that on it's own enough ? :-)
I agree with this, you have to read between the lines and look at the details. Exciting and interesting times I say.Also, I don't see the total departure that some see. The side strakes for instance (on Vulcan) follow the pattern that started with CC100 and was expanded upon with the latest Vantage GT3. The rear lights and to extent the front ones are straight from DP100. There are some other cues too.
The other common post in this thread appears to be along the lines of it's not competitive with FXX, why by 2, etc. I'd point people to my long post earlier in the thread - this cannot be seen as direct competition with those cars but it is different. You can't take FXX K home and as I understand it, you can only use it on a set of 6 or so annual track days pre determined and set by Ferrari. I'd hate to think what Ferrari charge annually for all that
But you can take Vulcan home, you can use it on any track day/event you wish, plus use it for FIA races where it fits from a compliance point of view (including being able to dial down the power) and you can theoretically go for single type approval to drive it on the road. You definitely have a much slower car than P1 GTR but you can use it far more often/differently/more cheaply. It is therefore a different proposition
Oh and it has side exiting flame spitting exhausts ! Isn't that on it's own enough ? :-)
I would have thought that with the design progression of the One77 and the Zagota it would have been possible to keep the heritage design features of Aston Martin and produce a new range
Then all that was required in the new DB10 was more effort to make it a proper GT e.g. a larger boot and more interior storage and, if it was to be a 4 seater, more rear legroom.
However as we know AM has not made a profit for years and I presume it was thought a radical new approach was necessary .
The problem is if they stray too far from the heritage to whom will the car appeal ?
Let's not forget that the rear spoiler of the new Vanquish caused concern albeit apart from that we all liked the look of it.
Porsche have managed to keep to their design evolution and they are ugly bleeders so it shouldn't be that difficult for AM.
Then all that was required in the new DB10 was more effort to make it a proper GT e.g. a larger boot and more interior storage and, if it was to be a 4 seater, more rear legroom.
However as we know AM has not made a profit for years and I presume it was thought a radical new approach was necessary .
The problem is if they stray too far from the heritage to whom will the car appeal ?
Let's not forget that the rear spoiler of the new Vanquish caused concern albeit apart from that we all liked the look of it.
Porsche have managed to keep to their design evolution and they are ugly bleeders so it shouldn't be that difficult for AM.
avinalarf said:
I would have thought that with the design progression of the One77 and the Zagota it would have been possible to keep the heritage design features of Aston Martin and produce a new range
Then all that was required in the new DB10 was more effort to make it a proper GT e.g. a larger boot and more interior storage and, if it was to be a 4 seater, more rear legroom.
V12 Zagato is IMO a red herring - although the most recent one was designed by AM, Zagato is a design house in it's own right and Zagatos have always been a rebody of an existing car, adding Zagatoesque touchesThen all that was required in the new DB10 was more effort to make it a proper GT e.g. a larger boot and more interior storage and, if it was to be a 4 seater, more rear legroom.
But when people talk about ONE77, Vulcan, DP100, GT3, etc the whole point is that those cars cannot look too similar to the current or forthcoming range, or they wouldn't justify their limited run/high price. DB10 should also be ignored - that's not going to be a production car
The reality is that all of what I would term production cars, i.e. excluding the 100 max production run cars referred to above, have followed a much more gentle evolution path and we know of no reason to think that it won't continue, albeit at a slightly more aggressive rate
So for example, just because Vulcan has a radical change to the grill/front end doesn't mean we should expect something so extreme on a production car any time soon, but it does indicate the general direction the sportier cars might start to follow in their language
We also all know that if Aston don't up the rate of change a little, we have the 'all Astons look the same/never change' argument which the brand is suffering from. We can't have it both ways
It's vitally important that they go through with this promise of the sports cars looking more different to the GTs than the current range does. The reality is that Vantage is to all intents and purposes a SWB DB9....or DB9 is a LWB Vantage. They have very similar slightly different length chassis, almost identical interiors and exteriors which non Aston folk find hard to differentiate. The only difference is the gearbox and in some instances, engine. Rapide is a longer version still of those 2 cars
So if you love one, that's fine but if you don't like one, you are unlikely to buy any. Whereas Ferrari employ some common design touches but have very different looking cars in California, FF, 458 & F12. AM have to follow that path and it sounds like they are heading that way. I can talk semantics with my mate weighing up buying a used V12V manual or a used DBS manual but to him, there is incredibly little in it and I sympathise with his difficulty.
BravoV8V said:
For the same reason someone would want a Porsche 918, a P1 and a LaFerrari?
(See this week's Top Gear. Just ignore the rubbish Peugeot bit).
It's not the same though. You can use those 3 wherever you want. (See this week's Top Gear. Just ignore the rubbish Peugeot bit).
Track limited specials you're a bit stuck with. If the people buying them are actually going to use them for their intended purpose, I don't see a point. I suspect most will go into collections.
jonby said:
Whereas Ferrari employ some common design touches but have very different looking cars in California, FF, 458 & F12.
The common design touch being they're all horrendously ugly? On a more serious note though, they make a lot of different body styles, meaning it is easier to have different looking cars. Aston make front engined GT cars. They are always going to look fairly similar.
C.
I was using the term DB10 not in relation to the Bond car but to the new version of the DB9.
Thing is AM has always been admired for being understated rather than the more extravagantly designed Ferrari and Lambo.
That has been the "esp" of the brand ,lose that and what are you left with ?
It is a shame that AM should produce a stunningly designed car like One77 that is only available to a few at that price point.
My comment on the Zagato was in the context ( as with the One77 ) that design evolution could be achieved and produce a stunning looking car that still had the hallmark of an AM.
You could therefore have the "new " DB9 with a nod to the One77 and the "new" Vantage with a nod to the Zagato.
Obviously this is a simplification but you get my drift.
jonby said:
V12 Zagato is IMO a red herring - although the most recent one was designed by AM, Zagato is a design house in it's own right and Zagatos have always been a rebody of an existing car, adding Zagatoesque touches
But when people talk about ONE77, Vulcan, DP100, GT3, etc the whole point is that those cars cannot look too similar to the current or forthcoming range, or they wouldn't justify their limited run/high price. DB10 should also be ignored - that's not going to be a production car
The reality is that all of what I would term production cars, i.e. excluding the 100 max production run cars referred to above, have followed a much more gentle evolution path and we know of no reason to think that it won't continue, albeit at a slightly more aggressive rate
So for example, just because Vulcan has a radical change to the grill/front end doesn't mean we should expect something so extreme on a production car any time soon, but it does indicate the general direction the sportier cars might start to follow in their language
We also all know that if Aston don't up the rate of change a little, we have the 'all Astons look the same/never change' argument which the brand is suffering from. We can't have it both ways
It's vitally important that they go through with this promise of the sports cars looking more different to the GTs than the current range does. The reality is that Vantage is to all intents and purposes a SWB DB9....or DB9 is a LWB Vantage. They have very similar slightly different length chassis, almost identical interiors and exteriors which non Aston folk find hard to differentiate. The only difference is the gearbox and in some instances, engine. Rapide is a longer version still of those 2 cars
So if you love one, that's fine but if you don't like one, you are unlikely to buy any. Whereas Ferrari employ some common design touches but have very different looking cars in California, FF, 458 & F12. AM have to follow that path and it sounds like they are heading that way. I can talk semantics with my mate weighing up buying a used V12V manual or a used DBS manual but to him, there is incredibly little in it and I sympathise with his difficulty.
I have been reading your posts and agree with the majority of your comments.But when people talk about ONE77, Vulcan, DP100, GT3, etc the whole point is that those cars cannot look too similar to the current or forthcoming range, or they wouldn't justify their limited run/high price. DB10 should also be ignored - that's not going to be a production car
The reality is that all of what I would term production cars, i.e. excluding the 100 max production run cars referred to above, have followed a much more gentle evolution path and we know of no reason to think that it won't continue, albeit at a slightly more aggressive rate
So for example, just because Vulcan has a radical change to the grill/front end doesn't mean we should expect something so extreme on a production car any time soon, but it does indicate the general direction the sportier cars might start to follow in their language
We also all know that if Aston don't up the rate of change a little, we have the 'all Astons look the same/never change' argument which the brand is suffering from. We can't have it both ways
It's vitally important that they go through with this promise of the sports cars looking more different to the GTs than the current range does. The reality is that Vantage is to all intents and purposes a SWB DB9....or DB9 is a LWB Vantage. They have very similar slightly different length chassis, almost identical interiors and exteriors which non Aston folk find hard to differentiate. The only difference is the gearbox and in some instances, engine. Rapide is a longer version still of those 2 cars
So if you love one, that's fine but if you don't like one, you are unlikely to buy any. Whereas Ferrari employ some common design touches but have very different looking cars in California, FF, 458 & F12. AM have to follow that path and it sounds like they are heading that way. I can talk semantics with my mate weighing up buying a used V12V manual or a used DBS manual but to him, there is incredibly little in it and I sympathise with his difficulty.
I was using the term DB10 not in relation to the Bond car but to the new version of the DB9.
Thing is AM has always been admired for being understated rather than the more extravagantly designed Ferrari and Lambo.
That has been the "esp" of the brand ,lose that and what are you left with ?
It is a shame that AM should produce a stunningly designed car like One77 that is only available to a few at that price point.
My comment on the Zagato was in the context ( as with the One77 ) that design evolution could be achieved and produce a stunning looking car that still had the hallmark of an AM.
You could therefore have the "new " DB9 with a nod to the One77 and the "new" Vantage with a nod to the Zagato.
Obviously this is a simplification but you get my drift.
avinalarf said:
C.
I was using the term DB10 not in relation to the Bond car but to the new version of the DB9.
Thing is AM has always been admired for being understated rather than the more extravagantly designed Ferrari and Lambo.
That has been the "esp" of the brand ,lose that and what are you left with ?
It is a shame that AM should produce a stunningly designed car like One77 that is only available to a few at that price point.
My comment on the Zagato was in the context ( as with the One77 ) that design evolution could be achieved and produce a stunning looking car that still had the hallmark of an AM.
You could therefore have the "new " DB9 with a nod to the One77 and the "new" Vantage with a nod to the Zagato.
Obviously this is a simplification but you get my drift.
Just a quick post- off out soon. I don't disagree. Who's to say they won't do the things you suggest - we haven't seen any of the new production cars yet. But one of the comments from MR today, I forget which publication, indicates that the GTs will be more 'delicate' (I forget the exact phrase he used). Essentially they will therefore be keeping much more to the AM traditional design language. Meanwhile the sports cars, according to MR, will be more extreme. I think that's a good thing. I am sure you will see more ONE 77 and less Vulcan in developments to DB9 for instance.jonby said:
V12 Zagato is IMO a red herring - although the most recent one was designed by AM, Zagato is a design house in it's own right and Zagatos have always been a rebody of an existing car, adding Zagatoesque touches
But when people talk about ONE77, Vulcan, DP100, GT3, etc the whole point is that those cars cannot look too similar to the current or forthcoming range, or they wouldn't justify their limited run/high price. DB10 should also be ignored - that's not going to be a production car
The reality is that all of what I would term production cars, i.e. excluding the 100 max production run cars referred to above, have followed a much more gentle evolution path and we know of no reason to think that it won't continue, albeit at a slightly more aggressive rate
So for example, just because Vulcan has a radical change to the grill/front end doesn't mean we should expect something so extreme on a production car any time soon, but it does indicate the general direction the sportier cars might start to follow in their language
We also all know that if Aston don't up the rate of change a little, we have the 'all Astons look the same/never change' argument which the brand is suffering from. We can't have it both ways
It's vitally important that they go through with this promise of the sports cars looking more different to the GTs than the current range does. The reality is that Vantage is to all intents and purposes a SWB DB9....or DB9 is a LWB Vantage. They have very similar slightly different length chassis, almost identical interiors and exteriors which non Aston folk find hard to differentiate. The only difference is the gearbox and in some instances, engine. Rapide is a longer version still of those 2 cars
So if you love one, that's fine but if you don't like one, you are unlikely to buy any. Whereas Ferrari employ some common design touches but have very different looking cars in California, FF, 458 & F12. AM have to follow that path and it sounds like they are heading that way. I can talk semantics with my mate weighing up buying a used V12V manual or a used DBS manual but to him, there is incredibly little in it and I sympathise with his difficulty.
I have been reading your posts and agree with the majority of your comments.But when people talk about ONE77, Vulcan, DP100, GT3, etc the whole point is that those cars cannot look too similar to the current or forthcoming range, or they wouldn't justify their limited run/high price. DB10 should also be ignored - that's not going to be a production car
The reality is that all of what I would term production cars, i.e. excluding the 100 max production run cars referred to above, have followed a much more gentle evolution path and we know of no reason to think that it won't continue, albeit at a slightly more aggressive rate
So for example, just because Vulcan has a radical change to the grill/front end doesn't mean we should expect something so extreme on a production car any time soon, but it does indicate the general direction the sportier cars might start to follow in their language
We also all know that if Aston don't up the rate of change a little, we have the 'all Astons look the same/never change' argument which the brand is suffering from. We can't have it both ways
It's vitally important that they go through with this promise of the sports cars looking more different to the GTs than the current range does. The reality is that Vantage is to all intents and purposes a SWB DB9....or DB9 is a LWB Vantage. They have very similar slightly different length chassis, almost identical interiors and exteriors which non Aston folk find hard to differentiate. The only difference is the gearbox and in some instances, engine. Rapide is a longer version still of those 2 cars
So if you love one, that's fine but if you don't like one, you are unlikely to buy any. Whereas Ferrari employ some common design touches but have very different looking cars in California, FF, 458 & F12. AM have to follow that path and it sounds like they are heading that way. I can talk semantics with my mate weighing up buying a used V12V manual or a used DBS manual but to him, there is incredibly little in it and I sympathise with his difficulty.
I was using the term DB10 not in relation to the Bond car but to the new version of the DB9.
Thing is AM has always been admired for being understated rather than the more extravagantly designed Ferrari and Lambo.
That has been the "esp" of the brand ,lose that and what are you left with ?
It is a shame that AM should produce a stunningly designed car like One77 that is only available to a few at that price point.
My comment on the Zagato was in the context ( as with the One77 ) that design evolution could be achieved and produce a stunning looking car that still had the hallmark of an AM.
You could therefore have the "new " DB9 with a nod to the One77 and the "new" Vantage with a nod to the Zagato.
Obviously this is a simplification but you get my drift.
jonby said:
Just a quick post- off out soon. I don't disagree. Who's to say they won't do the things you suggest - we haven't seen any of the new production cars yet. But one of the comments from MR today, I forget which publication, indicates that the GTs will be more 'delicate' (I forget the exact phrase he used). Essentially they will therefore be keeping much more to the AM traditional design language. Meanwhile the sports cars, according to MR, will be more extreme. I think that's a good thing. I am sure you will see more ONE 77 and less Vulcan in developments to DB9 for instance.
'Gentile(sic)' meaning genteel I am sure, was the word for the DB9Edited by hashluck on Wednesday 25th February 19:29
. ) is no more??? 
Little Donkey said:
Take a minute to erase your mind of the last ten years and imagine that this was announced today as the next Aston Martin and I think we can all appreciate just what a difficult act this is going to be to follow.
I agree and to make things worse, new cars are being announced now with very similar designs.
A Bentley sports car concept was in a magazine today (it will be at Geneva), and the body outline is Vantage.
The AMG GT goes further. They proudly announced that their new car has an alloy extrusions and castings monocoque chassis, a front mid-mounted engine, with a torque tube and rear gearbox. I think we have seen their body shape somewhere before as well.
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