D Appleby Flywheel & Sintered Twin Plate Clutch exp.

[Bincenzo]

No dramas. Drop me a PM if you want my opinion, seems a shame to clog the poor OPs innocent post with our ramblings.

[JohnG1]

So it's not a sintered clutch and it's not a David Appleby clutch.
It's an organic AML off-the-shelf twin-plate clutch.
And is the flywheel one that David Appleby have engineered and/or designed and/or manufactured or is that AML off-the-shelf with some holes drilled in it?

[x31james]

JohnG1 Twin plate organic clutch AML part, custom lightweight flywheel DAE designed, new clutch release bearing and custom release bearing spacer DAE designed. Not sure who manufactures the part with ask today when I pick the car up

[Jockman]

Quinny said:

Jockman said:

I'm >seriously< loving all the pictures

Probably looks like modern art to you..........

I've printed them off for little Phillie to colour in.

No idea what they are

[JohnG1]

x31james said:

old bearing


New bearing

Have you got these photos the right way around?

The "new" clutch release bearing looks more like a V8 part (single plate clutch) rather than a V12 (twin plate clutch) part. So it's a different shape - the V12 part is more rounded to push the fingers more and the V8 part is flatter.

The only way I can describe it is that the V8 part is like a flat headed screw and the V12 part is like a round headed screw when viewed in profile. Another way to think of it is that the bearing is shaped like a ring doughnut - the V12 doughnut is curved but the V8 doughnut has been squashed under a book. Since the thrust bearing needs to match the clutch and NOT the engine it looks like you have the wrong part fitted.

It's probably not the end of the world - the fella I asked here reckons the bearing will wear more and pedal travel will be longer. My man is off sipping on a Fosters, so be good to hear what your man David thinks on that one.

[davidexige]

I think James mentioned in one of his other posts that a spacer has also been fitted to the release bearing, if so I would have thought this would be to ensure the pedal travel remains the same as previous.

JohnG1 said:

Have you got these photos the right way around?

The "new" clutch release bearing looks more like a V8 part (single plate clutch) rather than a V12 (twin plate clutch) part. So it's a different shape - the V12 part is more rounded to push the fingers more and the V8 part is flatter.

The only way I can describe it is that the V8 part is like a flat headed screw and the V12 part is like a round headed screw when viewed in profile. Another way to think of it is that the bearing is shaped like a ring doughnut - the V12 doughnut is curved but the V8 doughnut has been squashed under a book. Since the thrust bearing needs to match the clutch and NOT the engine it looks like you have the wrong part fitted.

It's probably not the end of the world - the fella I asked here reckons the bearing will wear more and pedal travel will be longer. My man is off sipping on a Fosters, so be good to hear what your man David thinks on that one.

[AMDBSNick]

steveatesh said:

" Bong, AMDBSNick you are fines 20 man points for violation of the PH morality Standards "

Oddly enough Steve Mrs T has never driven it

[mikey k]

Big Ry said:

petop said:

I understand that BR may want to tailor their pricing to the individual which is fine. But a rough estimate would be appreciated.

A clutch is a clutch, I don't care if you're Prince Charles or Joey Essex, it costs the same.

But its not is it?
DAE offer 4 organic versions excluding the sintered ones!

BTW if anyone is interested there was a poll on clutch life a while back

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Ken Figenus]

>I just love the fact you are under your car seeing what's going on and how it is coming together and how it all works<

[x31james]

JohnG1 said:

Have you got these photos the right way around?

The "new" clutch release bearing looks more like a V8 part (single plate clutch) rather than a V12 (twin plate clutch) part. So it's a different shape - the V12 part is more rounded to push the fingers more and the V8 part is flatter.

davidexige is correct travel is adjusted t make sure its correct. DAE said the slight angle difference where it meets the clutch fingers doesn't seem to cause issue its been done like this on sintered version for years on the race cars with no issues... hope this helps

[x31james]

Ken Figenus said:

>I just love the fact you are under your car seeing what's going on and how it is coming together and how it all works<

That wasn't me, it was James from DAE, part of the service! Still a good insight though

Edited by x31james on Thursday 16th April 16:17

Edited by x31james on Thursday 16th April 16:19

[x31james]

So got on the train to DAE this morning was picked up from the station and was shown around the DAE facilities. Quite a lot of different projects on the go including a rally AMV8 and a hill climb spec V8! The David Appleby family are a great bunch and seemed to have a lot of pride in what they do! Everything was in stock so was hard to not go mad and have the clear rear lights and all the carbon bits and bobs. Did go for an on/off switch for exhaust rather than removal of fuse 22, discovered it had already been removed by a previous owner and the exhaust value had seized up so sorted that and then James took me out for a drive in the car before it was my turn.

The DAE clutch: went to push in the clutch first time and nearly put my foot threw the bottom of the floor as i was still expecting the usual leg press of the old one. I had a mini cooper (10 plate) before the aston and id say it was softer than that. Another thing i noticed on the 80 mile journey back to London was that is picks up revs a lot quicker then it used to, changing from 6th to 4th the revs picked up maybe 50 to 100% quicker than before the new bits, the engine seems a lot more free. Still getting used to the bite of the new one but seems a lot cleaner than the standard clutch so very happy so far with the purchase! Note that i haven't driven a new AM V8 manual car, got the car from 17k (now 21k) so thats what I'm comparing it too.

[AMDBSNick]

x31james said:

Everything was in stock

Other than the correct clutch release bearing it seems, how odd

[V8Andrew]

x31james said:

So got on the train to DAE this morning was picked up from the station and was shown around the DAE facilities. Quite a lot of different projects on the go including a rally AMV8 and a hill climb spec V8! The David Appleby family are a great bunch and seemed to have a lot of pride in what they do! Everything was in stock so was hard to not go mad and have the clear rear lights and all the carbon bits and bobs. Did go for an on/off switch for exhaust rather than removal of fuse 22, discovered it had already been removed by a previous owner and the exhaust value had seized up so sorted that and then James took me out for a drive in the car before it was my turn.

The DAE clutch: went to push in the clutch first time and nearly put my foot threw the bottom of the floor as i was still expecting the usual leg press of the old one. I had a mini cooper (10 plate) before the aston and id say it was softer than that. Another thing i noticed on the 80 mile journey back to London was that is picks up revs a lot quicker then it used to, changing from 6th to 4th the revs picked up maybe 50 to 100% quicker than before the new bits, the engine seems a lot more free. Still getting used to the bite of the new one but seems a lot cleaner than the standard clutch so very happy so far with the purchase! Note that i haven't driven a new AM V8 manual car, got the car from 17k (now 21k) so thats what I'm comparing it too.

Useful review thanks. DAE did the work on my car for the previous owner and I have been pleased with the full exhaust system. When my clutch eventually goes I'll be looking at one of these.

[Ken Figenus]

x31james said:

That wasn't me, it was James from DAE, part of the service! Still a good insight though

Cant tell you how that very floats my boat!!! I'd be able to show them to my grandchildren one day, do a slide show etc!!!

[ADvantageV8]

x31james said:

So got on the train to DAE this morning was picked up from the station and was shown around the DAE facilities. Quite a lot of different projects on the go including a rally AMV8 and a hill climb spec V8! The David Appleby family are a great bunch and seemed to have a lot of pride in what they do! Everything was in stock so was hard to not go mad and have the clear rear lights and all the carbon bits and bobs. Did go for an on/off switch for exhaust rather than removal of fuse 22, discovered it had already been removed by a previous owner and the exhaust value had seized up so sorted that and then James took me out for a drive in the car before it was my turn.

The DAE clutch: went to push in the clutch first time and nearly put my foot threw the bottom of the floor as i was still expecting the usual leg press of the old one. I had a mini cooper (10 plate) before the aston and id say it was softer than that. Another thing i noticed on the 80 mile journey back to London was that is picks up revs a lot quicker then it used to, changing from 6th to 4th the revs picked up maybe 50 to 100% quicker than before the new bits, the engine seems a lot more free. Still getting used to the bite of the new one but seems a lot cleaner than the standard clutch so very happy so far with the purchase! Note that i haven't driven a new AM V8 manual car, got the car from 17k (now 21k) so thats what I'm comparing it too.

Really informative and excellent thread james, thanks a lot for sharing all the insights and pictures plus first impressions. For me personally this first hand customer experience is very helpful and positive feedback about the engineers who undertook the work at DAE helps for when I'll be needing to get this done on my sportshift 4.7. thanks Andy

[BeauBee]

ADvantageV8 said:

Really informative and excellent thread james, thanks a lot for sharing all the insights and pictures plus first impressions. For me personally this first hand customer experience is very helpful and positive feedback about the engineers who undertook the work at DAE helps for when I'll be needing to get this done on my sportshift 4.7. thanks Andy

+1

[JohnG1]

x31james said:

JohnG1 said:

Have you got these photos the right way around?

The "new" clutch release bearing looks more like a V8 part (single plate clutch) rather than a V12 (twin plate clutch) part. So it's a different shape - the V12 part is more rounded to push the fingers more and the V8 part is flatter.

davidexige is correct travel is adjusted t make sure its correct. DAE said the slight angle difference where it meets the clutch fingers doesn't seem to cause issue its been done like this on sintered version for years on the race cars with no issues... hope this helps

Something that works on the track - such as a sintered clutch - may not work well on the road. The life of a race car clutch is very different to that of a road car. You don't slip a clutch on a race car and you don't need to edge forward in traffic or reverse up a hill...

Clearly, if you are happy with the more consumable approach of race car engineering then that's cool and good for you, but since it's the wrong part for the clutch, it seems like an odd compromise to make - I wonder if anyone has any experience of the life of this non-standard bearing in normal road use?

[Bouldermobile]

Is anybody in a position to give a definitive answer as to whether the different shaped bearing will make much difference to both operation and longevity of fitted part?

Having looked at various photos online of the part concerned there are (at least) two shapes in use but the part numbers listed don't clarify the position, for example:
4G43-7A564-AB (has flatter shape): listed as being for V8 Vantage, earlier DB9 and DBS V12
6G33-7A564-BA (also believed to be flat): listed as being for V8 Vantage 08 onwards
AD23-7A564-AA (believed to be more pointed): listed as being for DBS V12 and V12 Vantage

Furthermore, some places state ASM bearing is different to manual bearing.

Also, please excuse my ignorance, but why would a flatter design wear quicker than the pointed design, given the extra surface area in contact, etc.? Would the clutch assembly wear (i.e the bit in contact with the bearing) wear more or less depending upon the bearing design?

Would the clutch fingers be different on a sintered assembly when compared to an organic assembly?

Any clarification appreciated, thanks.

[AMDBSNick]

This is the "correct" part



If the profile of the bearing is wrong (flat instead of domed) it means due to insufficient engagement the clamp force will be less for same amount of slave cylinder movement

HTH