Aston Martin in F1 talks with Red Bull over Mercedes engine

Aston Martin in F1 talks with Red Bull over Mercedes engine

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Discussion

Dingle Dell

Original Poster:

218 posts

137 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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Hot off the press.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119849...

Would be great to see.

MiniMan64

16,867 posts

189 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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What a bizarre turn that would be!

How does that work with the limits of number of engines supplied? It's not a Merc engine if it's got an AM badge?

Speedraser

1,656 posts

182 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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Seems pointless to me. Having the AM name -- and only the name -- on an F1 car that is powered by M-B and built by someone who has nothing to do with Aston Martin smacks of branding for branding's sake and fakery. I've often wondered why Red Bulls have "Infiniti" written on them. I still wonder.

Aston's racing, and their connection to racing, should be legitimate, as their endurance racing efforts have been and remain.

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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Fakery, branding makes the world go around.

RichB

51,435 posts

283 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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Totally agree and I said the same on the F1 thread. Aston should put their efforts into GT and endurance racing and if they want a shot at glory they should plan for a full on LMP1 Le Mans entry in a few years time. NOt some stickers on a Red Bull.

Dingle Dell

Original Poster:

218 posts

137 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
TBH, The branding issue is meaningless to me - it goes on in many areas of motorsport.

When I said it would be great to see, I was meaning from the point of view that there would be another competitive team in F1 again so that the Mercedes team didn't dominate every weekend.

RichB

51,435 posts

283 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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Dingle Dell said:
TBH, The branding issue is meaningless to me - it goes on in many areas of motorsport.

When I said it would be great to see, I was meaning from the point of view that there would be another competitive team in F1 again so that the Mercedes team didn't dominate every weekend.
Sorry, there's nothing to suggest that a Mercedes engine and an Aston Martin sticker on a Red Bull would suddenly make it competitive. Williams have Merc engines but don't challenge Mercedes works team.

Dingle Dell

Original Poster:

218 posts

137 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
RichB said:
Sorry, there's nothing to suggest that a Mercedes engine and an Aston Martin sticker on a Red Bull would suddenly make it competitive. Williams have Merc engines but don't challenge Mercedes works team.
Not sure what the relevance of the Aston sticker is if we are talking about performance! Of course there is no guarantee, but Red Bull's sucess over the last 5 years or so is a little different from Williams. Red Bull has been the dominant car with regard to downforce for many years now (this year aside) so it's entirely possible they could take the fight to Mercedes. Newey moving jobs seems to have hurt them (surprise, surprise) this year, but I wouldn't write them off.

The Renault engine this year is enough to make a good car look average, while Williams go from midfield to a podium contender just by switching to Merc power.

Remember that a Red Bull with a customer Renault engine did beat the factory Renault team.

Edited by Dingle Dell on Saturday 4th July 23:12

RichB

51,435 posts

283 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
quotequote all
All true, it's speculation but personally I would rather Aston stuck to GT & endurance racing. I remember Jaguars woeful attempt at an f1 team and I would hate Aston to wind up the same.

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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Mermaid said:
Fakery, branding makes the world go around.

The mind boggles.

Introducing the Aston Martin rod bill fizzy drink.
The new favourite drink of James Bond.
Save your empty drink cans, and you might win an Aston Martin car with a Mercedes engine. 1·6 turbocharged, just like Formula One.

................................

Sponsorship by the tobacco companies worked well and obtained worldwide TV coverage for years. However, there have been many motorsport sponsors who put money in, but obtained nothing in return, except perhaps the hospitality at race meetings.

I was funny today, when yet again the Manor team cars were first on track for qualifying. Bernie might be fed up with their obvious attempts to obtain TV coverage for their sponsors, because TV showed other team cars in their pit garages instead.

Aston Martin racing their own cars is a genuine test and promotion of what they have designed and built (I know Prodrive help).




Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 4th July 23:54

downr

3,803 posts

127 months

Saturday 4th July 2015
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But Aston Martin's "brand" and F1 fit together incredibly well, even if the heritage doesn't. Just look at the number of people on this forum jumping ship to McLaren cars (or looking to do so) with comments to the effect that its the only other brand that they see as a step up from AM

Then look at the global reach of F1. We all love Le Mans, but how many Middle Eastern, Asian (including Chinese) or Latin Americans watch it? Indeed how many Chinese have heard of Le Mans? But I bet many of them have seen or know about F1

IMHO a successful Aston Martin (as a company) is far more likely to lead to better cars (and yes more money into sports car racing) and that has to be a good thing surely?

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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RichB said:
Williams have Merc engines, but don't challenge Mercedes works team.

I have often wondered about F1 engine manufacturers, when they use the engines themselves, but also supply to other teams.

When you want to win, would you send your best engines to customers, or might they be slightly less powerful than the factory team engines?



V8LM

5,166 posts

208 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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RichB said:
All true, it's speculation but personally I would rather Aston stuck to GT & endurance racing. I remember Jaguars woeful attempt at an f1 team and I would hate Aston to wind up the same.
And Jaguar became Red Bull Racing.

Little Donkey

1,544 posts

140 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Call me Miss Marple but this is a deal brokered by Andy Palmer, clearly. Nissan has an alliance with Renault and Nissan owns Infiniti. Redbull uses Renault engines and carries Infiniti branding on its F1 cars.

And now Aston Martin has an alliance with AMG, so with Redbull using Merecedes engines with Aston Martin branding would seem a logical deal: Redbull gets it engine and Aston Martin gets world wide brand awareness for the cost of a sticker. Good business, I'd say.

It's a collaboration structure that's obviously worked for Palmer in the past, so looks like he's simply reinventing the wheel - pardon the pun.

Or maybe not..........

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-rules-o...

Edited by Little Donkey on Sunday 5th July 10:04

RichB

51,435 posts

283 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Little Donkey said:
I laughed at this line...

Another Mercedes source told Motorsport.com: "Red Bull have been asking [for engines] since February 2014 – they ring up every week! If you see how they've treated Renault they are not a good partner to have..."

flinder

44 posts

156 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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Time out...how about a review of our priorities. Let us fix:

1. Lack of a twin plate clutch in the V8 Vantage.
2. Up to date navigation systems.
3. Electronics that stop convertible tops in mid flight, intermittently lock and will not lock doors and deck lids, etc.
4. Removing the extra few hundred pounds of non competitive weight across the product line.

These are a few of the tasks to be resolved before we party!

GingerMunky

1,162 posts

256 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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downr said:
Then look at the global reach of F1. We all love Le Mans, but how many Middle Eastern, Asian (including Chinese) or Latin Americans watch it? Indeed how many Chinese have heard of Le Mans? But I bet many of them have seen or know about F1
If we want AM to have the sales to continue to survive ^^^ this. Stick a logo on an F1 car, and they will lap it up. Mercedes want AM to sell more so they can sell more engines, clever bit of symbiotic business.

GingerMunky

1,162 posts

256 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
quotequote all
flinder said:
Time out...how about a review of our priorities. Let us fix:
1. Lack of a twin plate clutch in the V8 Vantage.
2. Up to date navigation systems.
3. Electronics that stop convertible tops in mid flight, intermittently lock and will not lock doors and deck lids, etc.
4. Removing the extra few hundred pounds of non competitive weight across the product line.
5. Add basic electronic features that luxury car buyers the world over expect and can be found on a £20k Nissan. All round cameras, automatic parking, collision mitigation, speed sign recognition, auto everything, phone apps, etc...

DB9VolanteDriver

2,612 posts

175 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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GingerMunky said:
5. Add basic electronic features that luxury car buyers the world over expect and can be found on a £20k Nissan. All round cameras, automatic parking, collision mitigation, speed sign recognition, auto everything, phone apps, etc...
Yeah, that's it. Add more electronic crap to go wrong. Pretty some it'll be as unreliable as an MB. Astons are not meant to be mundane daily drivers, where you do want all that crap to entertain what is a boring drive. Astons are meant to be enjoyed and none of that stuff is needed for that. If you do want that stuff, just go buy an MB.

GingerMunky

1,162 posts

256 months

Sunday 5th July 2015
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DB9VolanteDriver said:
If you do want that stuff, just go buy an MB.
That's what customers are doing the world over, as AM suffocates and dies. You don't have to use the electronic features, just ignore them, I won't be using them myself smile you are quite right it is an engaging drive that's why I bought one. But my point stands; you and I and devoted customers will not keep AM alive like 50,000+ new asian, oriental and latin america customers.