Vantage Final Edition

[SFO]

what about this recent announcement?

http://www.astonmartin.com/en/live/news/2015/06/24...

Vantage and Rapide S revised

Not content simply with launching the DB9 GT, Aston Martin is also taking the arrival of 16MY cars to update, upgrade and enhance more of its core sports cars.

The sporting Vantage line-up and luxurious Rapide S four-door four-seat sports cars all benefit from a raft of colour, trim and equipment enhancements for 16MY, with the Vantage Coupe and Roadster models gaining a new touch-sensitive centre console fascia.

The AMi II infotainment system also makes its debut in Vantage and Rapide S, with the debut of corresponding new features such as visual vehicle status power and torque meters, offering real-time read-outs of engine bhp and torque.

New interior trim packs deliver the option of even greater personalisation for customers, with the addition of Vivid Red, Royal Mint, Black Damson and Bronze Metallic to 16MY leather palettes across the Vantage car lines.

Meanwhile, the striking Californian Poppy interior accent is now available for Vantage N430 and US-only Vantage GT buyers. Royal Mint, Spicy Red, Copper and Deep Purple stitching colours are new, too, along with revised alloy wheel designs.

New exterior colours Cinnabar Orange and Ultramarine Black debut on Vantage, too.

[CheckSix]

What I mean was besides the MY16 vantage V8 with all those changes (as per my order) there's no new V8 version specifically.

[V8 Vantage GT]

CheckSix said:

What I mean was besides the MY16 vantage V8 with all those changes (as per my order) there's no new V8 version specifically.

CheckSix, can you clarity? So what you are saying is that Vantage GT's will still be built throughout the 2016 model year? Thank you in advance.

[jonby]

V8 Vantage GT said:

CheckSix said:

What I mean was besides the MY16 vantage V8 with all those changes (as per my order) there's no new V8 version specifically.

CheckSix, can you clarity? So what you are saying is that Vantage GT's will still be built throughout the 2016 model year? Thank you in advance.

I think you need to be careful here - most on PH are UK based, however you two are US & Australia based - they never even offered the Vantage GT in the UK and whilst the GT may be offered in Aus, what they do in Aus is not necessarily what they do in the U.S.

[V8 Vantage GT]

jonby said:

I think you need to be careful here - most on PH are UK based, however you two are US & Australia based - they never even offered the Vantage GT in the UK and whilst the GT may be offered in Aus, what they do in Aus is not necessarily what they do in the U.S.

I understand, but the GT is basically the same as your N430. And since world wide production is so small comparatively I believe it's going to be same for all.

[jonby]

V8 Vantage GT said:

jonby said:

I think you need to be careful here - most on PH are UK based, however you two are US & Australia based - they never even offered the Vantage GT in the UK and whilst the GT may be offered in Aus, what they do in Aus is not necessarily what they do in the U.S.

I understand, but the GT is basically the same as your N430. And since world wide production is so small comparatively I believe it's going to be same for all.

Perhaps in time, as I agree it's unlikely not to be a global policy in due course, but there is a poster on 6speed posting definitively that aston dealers have received letters stating they cannot order V8 vantage right now. UK dealers have received no such letter. If it exists, then as of right now, it may be in the US and/or other countries, but doesn't appear to be the case here in the UK

My best guess is that there were several options for the factory to take in respect of V8 & V12 vantage, in terms of editions, gearboxes, production numbers, etc and that some plans never got past the drawing board and/or were changed part way through implementation. It's the best explanation for all the contradictory posts between PH, 6speed & AMOC

By way of example, there are several people who claim to have proper, firm orders in for V12 Vantage with a manual gearbox. They may have letters of intent lodged, they may think the car is being produced, they may even 'know' the car is being produced. But regardless of whether one will be produced, I challenge the idea that anyone right now has what amounts to what most of us constitute as being an actual order.

[mikey k]

V8 Vantage GT said:

jonby said:

I think you need to be careful here - most on PH are UK based, however you two are US & Australia based - they never even offered the Vantage GT in the UK and whilst the GT may be offered in Aus, what they do in Aus is not necessarily what they do in the U.S.

I understand, but the GT is basically the same as your N430.

Which is basically a V8VS with some cosmetics, which is the basic V8V with N400 air boxes and some cosmetics

[SFO]

I wonder whether the Vantage will be replaced first .. instead of the DB9 which everyone says will be.

DB9 was heavily face lifted with new headlights and wings etc, Vantage has not had a significant face lift, it's mostly been about the bumpers.

Further, the DB10 was done on a Vantage platform ..

And the AMG V8 twin turbo is the natural engine for the Vantage

And Vantage is the volume seller .. and AM needs volume

[jonby]

SFO said:

I wonder whether the Vantage will be replaced first .. instead of the DB9 which everyone says will be.

DB9 was heavily face lifted with new headlights and wings etc, Vantage has not had a significant face lift, it's mostly been about the bumpers.

Further, the DB10 was done on a Vantage platform ..

And the AMG V8 twin turbo is the natural engine for the Vantage

And Vantage is the volume seller .. and AM needs volume

There will be brand new complete replacements for both vantage and DB9, so which cars have had what facelifts and when, is not overly relevant. Both cars need a complete replacement and both cars are getting a complete replacement

DB9 first launched before vantage and the plan has always been to replace DB9 first. The development car has been caught testing and all is still in place for an early 2016 reveal, with production/deliveries starting towards the end of next year (2016)

Vantage was to be approx. 12 months after that - it is possible that it will be brought forward, as some of us have speculated on here, but I don't see DB9 being put back significantly and I very much doubt that vantage replacement will be ready this year so at best, the two would come out at the same time, although I hugely doubt that will be the case as it would lessen the impact of each respective new model.

As for DB10, it is based on current vantage, with a V8 engine. There will be nothing (or certainly very little) mechanically in common between DB10 and vantage replacement, as the latter will have new chassis, new & completely different engine, new electronics, etc. At most, there will be some cosmetic similarities. But expect to see as big a jump between current vantage and it's replacement as there was from DB7 to DB9, except in this instance, with an engine change as you say, to the AMG TT V8

[Jon39]

Do you think Jonby, that the cinema DB10 not being made available to customers (not happened before), is because the timing of Spectre did not fit with the AML timetable of new models?

It does surprise me, that there appears to have been a missed sales opportunity.

[jonby]

Jon39 said:

Do you think Jonby, that the cinema DB10 not being made available to customers (not happened before), is because the timing of Spectre did not fit with the AML timetable of new models?

It does surprise me, that there appears to have been a missed sales opportunity.

I don't think there's much in my post above which isn't fairly well known/ thought amongst many on here and indeed it's mostly stuff that has been known and planned for some time

My best guess is that as you say, the timing simply didn't work out. If it's filming now, it's probably a touch too early for DB9 replacement to be ready but would they want to put a model in that by October when the film is first shown in cinemas, is very near the end of it's life

I agree the whole thing is both unusual and poorly managed - if I didn't know better, I'd be thinking that vantage replacement, whilst different mechanically, would look very similar to DB10 however I understand that's not the case (and for those that don't know, it's certainly not the case for DB9 replacement)

I also don't get why at the very least, they don't offer a v12 zagato style run (i.e. vantage mechanicals, different body) of DB10 looking cars, in a very small number, call them DB10 and make say 100 of them. Could fill in the drop in production nicely in that period just before DB9 replacement when sales are low. Unless vantage replacement does look more like DB10 than I've been led to believe, however my understanding is that whilst there are design cues, what we see will not be mistaken for DB10

[DB9VolanteDriver]

SFO said:

And Vantage is the volume seller .. and AM needs volume

Well, to be fair, it is not that much different than DB9 volume wise, is it?

Around 17000 DB9s vs 19000 V8 Vantages.

[JohnG1]

jonby said:

I also don't get why at the very least, they don't offer a v12 zagato style run (i.e. vantage mechanicals, different body) of DB10 looking cars, in a very small number, call them DB10 and make say 100 of them.

Crash testing for a new car with a 100 production run would be restrictive. If you mess with anything serious you need to re-test. And that's something like 16 vehicles of production standard driven into solid objects and destroyed. So it's too expensive for AML right now...

AML has pushed the boundaries on this before - my understanding is that there has not been a lot of crash testing for Vantage after the initial work done back in what - 2005? A model called DB10 would be a new model and would need re-certification...

Too much £$€...

[Jon39]

Does that mean sixteen GT12 cars have been destroyed?

[CheckSix]

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/aston-martin/36...

Interesting update on this discussion.

Final edition vantage V8 for USA looks like real deal...

[jonby]

CheckSix said:

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/aston-martin/36...

Interesting update on this discussion.

Final edition vantage V8 for USA looks like real deal...

Indeed - I very rarely look at 6speed let alone post but I chose to post a couple of times on that thread and then backed out - the lack of attention to detail and poor use of grammar in that particular thread makes it very difficult to fully understand - obviously I'm generalising and not everyone on there falls into that category, but there are enough that do to make the thread very difficult to follow

In this instance, it's gone from 'no vantages to be produced from now on other than a final edition', to 'no v8 vantages......' to 'no v8 vantages in the US'.

Yet it's taken umpteen posts and questions to clarify that issue

[mikey k]

CheckSix said:

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/aston-martin/36...

Interesting update on this discussion.

Final edition vantage V8 for USA looks like real deal...

Jonby has a point
So it seems Aston as doing a Ltd Edition for the US in order to get as many over there before they are locked out of selling to this US because of emissions.
We this dead line was coming after the last reprieve.
It says nothing about ROW

[jonby]

mikey k said:

It says nothing about ROW

Absolutely, which puts all the conjecture about implications for new vantage in a different light

I don't think anyone is surprised that v8 vantage will have a final/ultimate/similar edition as a send off, which is unlikely to be materially different other than trim, but we were surprised at the timing

There will of course be a period when no vantages are sold, as the time for the replacement gets closer, but no reason to suspect now, in Europe at least, that it won't be for another 12 months or so

As for V12, basically exactly the same thing applies.

[JohnG1]

Jon39 said:

Does that mean sixteen GT12 cars have been destroyed?

No, that's the point. The GT12 is a Vantage GT12 - so it's not a new model and therefore does not get crash tested. If you have a new model name and designation then it's a new car.

As a really simple example, if you crash test a 4.3 V8 and then you fit a new fabric to the seats you don't re-test. If you fit a new bumper and associated crumple structures you do retest. AML has been good at getting as much mileage as possible from the crash testing done. But you cannot take the mickey too much!

[jonby]

JohnG1 said:

Jon39 said:

Does that mean sixteen GT12 cars have been destroyed?

No, that's the point. The GT12 is a Vantage GT12 - so it's not a new model and therefore does not get crash tested. If you have a new model name and designation then it's a new car.

As a really simple example, if you crash test a 4.3 V8 and then you fit a new fabric to the seats you don't re-test. If you fit a new bumper and associated crumple structures you do retest. AML has been good at getting as much mileage as possible from the crash testing done. But you cannot take the mickey too much!

How did Zagato get round that ? Or is that your allusion to 'pushing things' in getting away with calling it a vantage derivative, which name aside, is essentially what DB10 appears to be. And I wonder what they have done about Taraf ?