Aston's sales in the UK - good or bad news?
Discussion
I do not see how it can be good news for fans of the marque to see sales decline.
However it is inevitable with the lack of really new models over the past few years.
The modifications to existing models have been welcome but they must have lost a lot of potential customers over the last two years.
However it is inevitable with the lack of really new models over the past few years.
The modifications to existing models have been welcome but they must have lost a lot of potential customers over the last two years.
avinalarf said:
I do not see how it can be good news for fans of the marque to see sales decline.
However it is inevitable with the lack of really new models over the past few years.
The modifications to existing models have been welcome but they must have lost a lot of potential customers over the last two years.
Sorry don't agree - this is UK sales remember.However it is inevitable with the lack of really new models over the past few years.
The modifications to existing models have been welcome but they must have lost a lot of potential customers over the last two years.
Other than the slightly more esoteric argument that to an extent, the product will be tweaked to suit the largest markets' wishes (i.e. put bluntly, eventually, when china accounts for the bulk of the sales for a brand, the product that brand makes will be tailored in size, colour & other specifications to suit china), I think it's a good thing
Primarily because all other things being equal, lower sales helps tip supply/demand and therefore reduce depreciation
The importance of the UK market to AML has lessened over the last few years, so they haven't been pushing as many cars on the dealers, so the prices have been a touch firmer and the impact should really be felt in a good way over the next 2-3 years
The next 1-2 years are all about survival - the factory recognise that and are pinning their hopes on the next wave of new products propelling the company into a different era. To be fair, the wave of DB9/vantage products did achieve that, but they were over relied upon for too long hence the current problems
[quote=jonby the product will be tweaked to suit the largest markets' wishes (i.e. put bluntly, eventually, when china accounts for the bulk of the sales for a brand, the product that brand makes will be tailored in size, colour & other specifications to suit china), I think it's a good thing
[/quote]
That's spot on.
And why you can get long wheel base BMW 3 series in China whereas AML build one of the longest four doors cars with the worst packaging in the world - the rear passenger compartment is tiny. Failure of management, sales and marketing. I hope Andy Palmer brings in some new folks who actually do market research and know their customers rather than just trying to repeat the Victor Gauntlett play of Taraf and other oil money products. I respect what VG did for AML, no criticism. But having a single play in the book of selling to oil money is a bit daft when China has boomed since those days...
[/quote]
That's spot on.
And why you can get long wheel base BMW 3 series in China whereas AML build one of the longest four doors cars with the worst packaging in the world - the rear passenger compartment is tiny. Failure of management, sales and marketing. I hope Andy Palmer brings in some new folks who actually do market research and know their customers rather than just trying to repeat the Victor Gauntlett play of Taraf and other oil money products. I respect what VG did for AML, no criticism. But having a single play in the book of selling to oil money is a bit daft when China has boomed since those days...
As an owner, am I being selfish to hope that Aston caps its production to maintain its exclusivity?
It's been discussed hundreds of times on here about sustainability, survivability of the company, improvement of product etc etc.
But for all of that, I kind of like driving around in an Aston which is a rare sight on the roads,is so well received by the general public and car enthusiat alike, not forgetting of course, that despite the odd niggle, is an absolutely amazing car that I find hard to fault.
Stop making them now I say!
It's been discussed hundreds of times on here about sustainability, survivability of the company, improvement of product etc etc.
But for all of that, I kind of like driving around in an Aston which is a rare sight on the roads,is so well received by the general public and car enthusiat alike, not forgetting of course, that despite the odd niggle, is an absolutely amazing car that I find hard to fault.
Stop making them now I say!
JohnG1 said:
That's spot on.
And why you can get long wheel base BMW 3 series in China whereas AML build one of the longest four doors cars with the worst packaging in the world - the rear passenger compartment is tiny. Failure of management, sales and marketing. I hope Andy Palmer brings in some new folks who actually do market research and know their customers rather than just trying to repeat the Victor Gauntlett play of Taraf and other oil money products. I respect what VG did for AML, no criticism. But having a single play in the book of selling to oil money is a bit daft when China has boomed since those days...
YAnd why you can get long wheel base BMW 3 series in China whereas AML build one of the longest four doors cars with the worst packaging in the world - the rear passenger compartment is tiny. Failure of management, sales and marketing. I hope Andy Palmer brings in some new folks who actually do market research and know their customers rather than just trying to repeat the Victor Gauntlett play of Taraf and other oil money products. I respect what VG did for AML, no criticism. But having a single play in the book of selling to oil money is a bit daft when China has boomed since those days...
Take a look at Jaguar Land Roger latest results. Massively down as sales in China have fallen off a cliff.
Good work PhilipO.
I know that it takes some time to compile the data.
jonby said:
The next 1-2 years are all about survival - the factory recognise that and are pinning their hopes on the next wave of new products propelling the company into a different era. To be fair, the wave of DB9/vantage products [2003 and 2005] did achieve that, but they were over relied upon for too long hence the current problems
As you know Jonby, there was little alternative to the 'over relied upon for too long'. Even with a few profitable years (rare for AML) before the economic cycle turned down, making pre-tax of £35m does not go very far, in the development of a replacement model range.Even though we are not sure about the SUV idea, Dr Palmer is open about the necessity to achieve profit levels, that can pay for the next models. I think he said the choice is sports cars only and bust again, or SUV to bring in cash.
Having said that, I am still puzzled about how McLaren sports cars are already in profit, considering how enormous their set up costs must have been.
Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 11th August 19:31
avinalarf said:
.....but they must have lost a lot of potential customers over the last two years.
They have potentially lost one in me - just because of my experience with the main dealer.I currently own a V8V, but i'd definitely think twice about buying another (which I am in a position to do). I'd be pissed if I bought a Nissan Micra and the dealer was disinterested and made false promises - but on a £100k car!!!!
Jonby ....I disagree that you should disagree.
Let me caveat my answer by saying that I did not take care to appreciate that these were UK sales only,albeit do worldwide sales contradict the decline in sales.
As for China and ME markets surely AM should have brought out a SUV and full sized stretched limo 5 years ago if those were there proposed customers. I am aware one/ main reason was lack of funds.
The only sop to China and ME has been some lurid colours and dragon tattoos on the upholstery.
However AM will not survive alone in keeping customers happy with stable secondhand prices.
Certainly the slow evolution of AM models have kept s/h prices stable,when one is able to buy a s/h model for half the price of a new model with little visual difference customers will appreciate this.
What interests me is where AM will position themselves in the market as regards the pricing of their new ranges.
Will they,like Ferrari and Lamborghini become more extravagant in their pricing or,as at the moment,be competitive with Porsche and Maserati?
Let me caveat my answer by saying that I did not take care to appreciate that these were UK sales only,albeit do worldwide sales contradict the decline in sales.
As for China and ME markets surely AM should have brought out a SUV and full sized stretched limo 5 years ago if those were there proposed customers. I am aware one/ main reason was lack of funds.
The only sop to China and ME has been some lurid colours and dragon tattoos on the upholstery.
However AM will not survive alone in keeping customers happy with stable secondhand prices.
Certainly the slow evolution of AM models have kept s/h prices stable,when one is able to buy a s/h model for half the price of a new model with little visual difference customers will appreciate this.
What interests me is where AM will position themselves in the market as regards the pricing of their new ranges.
Will they,like Ferrari and Lamborghini become more extravagant in their pricing or,as at the moment,be competitive with Porsche and Maserati?
avinalarf said:
... I did not take care to appreciate that these were UK sales only,albeit do worldwide sales contradict the decline in sales.
I am very surprised Mr. Avinalarf, and most unexpected from you.As one of the captains of industry (I think that was what you said), you do not seem to have a grip on the numbers. A basic, which is repeatedly mentioned on Dragons Den. -
Total unit sales approx 4,000 pa.
UK now under 1,000 pa.
The peak was approx 7,000 and that was pre-recession.
UK July 2015 AM registrations were up on 2014, so probably some good news there.
Jon39 makes a very good point. With 25% of sales in the UK we are not the most important market for them. It is worldwide sales that count but I still worry whether AML cars suit the demands of Russia, China, India at the moment. That is perhaps why the DBX/Taraf however much people are against it, will be so important to the future of AML
Just a note of caution on China. The government began a new clampdown 6 months ago on corruption etc. So the "ostentation" days have, temporarily at least, diminished. Its now bordering on unacceptable to be seen to wear the latest watch, drive the latest sports car. And that's hurting sales of luxury goods. Expect to see that featuring a lot in the results from Bentley etc
Personally I think Mr Palmer is correct; he's going to have to build an SUV - just for AML to survive and be in a position to continue building the sports cars in years to come
Personally I think Mr Palmer is correct; he's going to have to build an SUV - just for AML to survive and be in a position to continue building the sports cars in years to come
Jon ,I apologise for my ignorance, I admit my knowledge of the motor industry finances are not as strong as those in my chosen field of expertise.
I understand that McClaren have had record sales over the past couple of years with just a couple of models.
If McClaren can do it why not AM ?
I understand that McClaren have had record sales over the past couple of years with just a couple of models.
If McClaren can do it why not AM ?
RobDown said:
Just a note of caution on China. The government began a new clampdown 6 months ago on corruption etc. So the "ostentation" days have, temporarily at least, diminished. Its now bordering on unacceptable to be seen to wear the latest watch, drive the latest sports car. And that's hurting sales of luxury goods. Expect to see that featuring a lot in the results from Bentley etc
Personally I think Mr Palmer is correct; he's going to have to build an SUV - just for AML to survive and be in a position to continue building the sports cars in years to come
Yes, I agree with all of that. But back in 2010 when Rapide was released a larger rear cabin could have resulted in many more sales in China. This should have been alongside a reasonable dealer network in Shanghai, Shenzhen, Beijing etc...Personally I think Mr Palmer is correct; he's going to have to build an SUV - just for AML to survive and be in a position to continue building the sports cars in years to come
Instead Herr Bez would spend millions on jaunts driving company cars around the N24 and other races...
And Cygnet.
And Virage.
So many poorly thought out decisions made - no wonder Palmer is busy trying to turn it around. If only the promise of the early years of Ford ownership had been realised and someone on the AML board had had the gumption to say no to Bez...
Agree 100 percent, UB made so many poor decisions and what's more built a culture of arrogance at AML. Andy Palmer is going to have his work cut out trying to reverse that.
On the plus-side he's got the finances now to build the new model range. And I've been very encouraged by his willingness to engage - he even turned up to the Silverstone Classic and joined AMOC!
On the plus-side he's got the finances now to build the new model range. And I've been very encouraged by his willingness to engage - he even turned up to the Silverstone Classic and joined AMOC!
JohnG1 said:
...And Cygnet.
I thought that abomination was built to offset the company's emissions bill.JohnG1 said:
And Virage.
That turned into the delightful current DB9 - worked out well in the end! JohnG1 said:
So many poorly thought out decisions made - no wonder Palmer is busy trying to turn it around. If only the promise of the early years of Ford ownership had been realised and someone on the AML board had had the gumption to say no to Bez...
Bez made the One-77, an AM I want more than any other. For that he is forgiven.I'm with several others here who want the marque to remain small and exclusive. While I bought my three Astons mainly because of the design and styling, the fact that they are one of the few universally loved brands on the road also made my choice easier. Perhaps AM should follow Google's lead and set up an umbrella company that builds SUVs and electric cars under another brand, maybe Lagonda. That will make enough money to support our lovely but loss-making vehicles - the Vanq, DB's and Vantages.
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