Warming up your engine?
Discussion
Neil1300r said:
Accelerator flat to the floor. Then crank the car. Car won'tstart with aaccelerator fully depressed, but oil pump engaged.
Remember to stop turning the car over BEFORE releasing the accelerator.
Won't that flood the bore with petrol which will dilute/wash away the oil? (Correct me if I'm wrong, my engineering edumacation stopped decades ago when they started putting computers up front).Remember to stop turning the car over BEFORE releasing the accelerator.
kensilver said:
Won't that flood the bore with petrol which will dilute/wash away the oil? (Correct me if I'm wrong, my engineering edumacation stopped decades ago when they started putting computers up front).
No. There's a logic in the start cycle which recognises that the throttle is fully open so it turns the engine over without running the fuel pump or energising the spark plugs, ie just the oil pump runs. It's in the manual (under the long term storage section).
BravoV8V said:
kensilver said:
Won't that flood the bore with petrol which will dilute/wash away the oil? (Correct me if I'm wrong, my engineering edumacation stopped decades ago when they started putting computers up front).
No. There's a logic in the start cycle which recognises that the throttle is fully open so it turns the engine over without running the fuel pump or energising the spark plugs, ie just the oil pump runs. It's in the manual (under the long term storage section).
My original question was directed to V12's because I wondered whether the extra cylinders required a different starting or warming procedure, but it seems not. Tonight I started up and immediately backed out of the garage with only a slith twinge of anxiousness - which will probably diasppear after a few years...
kensilver said:
That's for extended storage 6 months and longer. I doubt whether it's a good idea to do it daily.
I disagree. The procedure just happens to be in the 'Long term storage' section of the manual. I used to do it if the car had been sitting for a couple of weeks. If your battery & starter motor are up to it, you could do it before every start, if you want. Neil1300r said:
Accelerator flat to the floor. Then crank the car. Car won'tstart with aaccelerator fully depressed, but oil pump engaged.
Remember to stop turning the car over BEFORE releasing the accelerator.
This only works with 'older' V12s, prior to introduction of knock sensing/Bosch ECU. Anyone with a new Vanquish, updated DB9 or V12VS cannot use this procedure.Remember to stop turning the car over BEFORE releasing the accelerator.
Agree with Bravo BTW - why not do it if you can?
Edited by quench on Tuesday 6th October 14:41
BravoV8V said:
kensilver said:
That's for extended storage 6 months and longer. I doubt whether it's a good idea to do it daily.
I disagree. The procedure just happens to be in the 'Long term storage' section of the manual. I used to do it if the car had been sitting for a couple of weeks. If your battery & starter motor are up to it, you could do it before every start, if you want. 
You can never have too much lube 
With the modern, thinner oils, the lubricant reached the engine components much faster and you will find the manufacturers leave areas for oil to "pool" where even faster lubrication is needed. There is a system available to store high pressure oil in a reservoir to release into the engine prior to first start which then replenishes when the oil pressure builds on running but I have only ever seen in on competition cars.
I think the thing to watch out for is over revving the engine when cold and as engine temperature increases, the revs can be used more freely.
I would suspect there has been much testing done on this because BMW "M" cars have a variable orange and red line on the tacho during the warm-up period.
In my opinion, I feel this is why it is important to keep to the manufacturers recommended oil viscosity for your normal operating ambient temperatures unless you use the car in extreme environments.
I find that if I start the car, drive slowly out of the garage, wait for the door to close whilst fitting my seat belt, and then pull away normally, this gives the car time to settle, come off choke and drive comfortably. I would not drive hard for around 5 minutes or around 5 miles.
I think the thing to watch out for is over revving the engine when cold and as engine temperature increases, the revs can be used more freely.
I would suspect there has been much testing done on this because BMW "M" cars have a variable orange and red line on the tacho during the warm-up period.
In my opinion, I feel this is why it is important to keep to the manufacturers recommended oil viscosity for your normal operating ambient temperatures unless you use the car in extreme environments.
I find that if I start the car, drive slowly out of the garage, wait for the door to close whilst fitting my seat belt, and then pull away normally, this gives the car time to settle, come off choke and drive comfortably. I would not drive hard for around 5 minutes or around 5 miles.
I have a V8V and always let the engine temp get close to normal before I drive off. Oil is thicker when it’s cold especially in freezing winter conditions. My vantage is my pride and joy and will always go on the safer side of caution. Why not for a min or two. I don’t like those two words. “ if only”. So for me it’s let all oil warm up and all those expensive bits and pieces as well. Happy days
Leroy007 said:
I have a V8V and always let the engine temp get close to normal before I drive off. Oil is thicker when it’s cold especially in freezing winter conditions. My vantage is my pride and joy and will always go on the safer side of caution. Why not for a min or two. I don’t like those two words. “ if only”. So for me it’s let all oil warm up and all those expensive bits and pieces as well. Happy days
I am intrigued how you warm the transaxle oil before you drive off? Nothing in there will turn until you drive.
My procedure is to use the non-firing procedure first, if the car has been idle for more than a week or so, then drive off keeping the revs very low and remaining in 1st gear for the first mile. Fortunately I don't have to join a busy road during that first mile.
By that time the transaxle oil has warmed a little and the common 1st to 2nd notchy gear change never occurs on my car.
Still keep the revs below 2,000 rpm, until the first few miles have been driven.
Always welcome any ideas to improve.
I just get in and drive, however I'm about a 3/4 mile through my village and can drive that on tickover. From a cold start I dont need any throttle to pull off the drive and continue through the village at 15-20mph. By the time I get to the dual carriageway and go for 2nd gear its getting warm and coming off the cold start cycle. Then I'm into average 50mph camera controlled areas for at least 5 miles in either direction so no opportunity for using high rev range anyway....
When AM was under Ford ownership during development these cars have performed thousands of miles of durability testing in warmer and colder weather than I will ever drive
When AM was under Ford ownership during development these cars have performed thousands of miles of durability testing in warmer and colder weather than I will ever drive
BiggaJ said:
Does it matter whether V12 or V8?
I let mine ideal for a few moments, then don't gun it until fully warmed up on the temp guage. Must admit it's one of the fastest cars I've had to heat up though.
Not to be a bell but the water gauge can be at full temp and the oil be nowhere near fyi.I let mine ideal for a few moments, then don't gun it until fully warmed up on the temp guage. Must admit it's one of the fastest cars I've had to heat up though.
Just trying to be helpful providing I’ve understood your comment properly Ofcourse.
Finding Neutral said:
Not to be a bell but the water gauge can be at full temp and the oil be nowhere near fyi.
Just trying to be helpful providing I’ve understood your comment properly Ofcourse.
Engine oil heats faster than water as water has one of the highest specific heat capacities. It takes longer and more energy to heat 1kg of water by 1 Deg C than it does to heat the same of oil.Just trying to be helpful providing I’ve understood your comment properly Ofcourse.
Therefore, on this basis if water temp is ok then it's fair to say oil temp will be also.
Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 7th January 15:52
Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 7th January 15:53
BiggaJ said:
Finding Neutral said:
Not to be a bell but the water gauge can be at full temp and the oil be nowhere near fyi.
Just trying to be helpful providing I’ve understood your comment properly Ofcourse.
Engine oil heats faster than water as water has one of the highest specific heat capacities. It takes longer and more energy to heat 1kg of water by 1 Deg C than it does to heat the same of oil.Just trying to be helpful providing I’ve understood your comment properly Ofcourse.
Therefore, on this basis if water temp is ok then it's fair to say oil temp will be also.
Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 7th January 15:52
Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 7th January 15:53
We’ve seen it on our race cars and bikes, water comes up really quick, the oil takes a while. Same on road cars with both water and oil temps. My oil can still not even be registering and the water will be at running temp. I’ve seen engines get goosed by people hammering them on track before the oil is up and only taking note of water. Granted these are close tolerance race motors, but still. Same principle.
Prime example is my race van, I can do three motorway junctions and the oil still be flat lining. The water will be up before I’m even on the motorway.
Remembering that coolant is thermostatically controlled and also it has a fair bit of area exposed to heat
Edited by Finding Neutral on Friday 7th January 16:13
BiggaJ said:
Engine oil heats faster than water as water has one of the highest specific heat capacities. It takes longer and more energy to heat 1kg of water by 1 Deg C than it does to heat the same of oil.
Therefore, on this basis if water temp is ok then it's fair to say oil temp will be also.
As a comparison between two fluids you may well be right. However, the water runs in channels in the head and around the bores and is intended to be in direct contact with the very hot bits to take away excess heat. There is also a thermostat to avoid the water being diverted into the radiator for cooling until operating temperature is reached. While oil does also get hot and act as a coolant, particularly by splash to the underside of the pistons, its prime purpose is lubrication, and for most of the time it's in the sump or the dry sump oil tank and so I believe is exposed less to the heat of combustion than the coolant.Therefore, on this basis if water temp is ok then it's fair to say oil temp will be also.
My statement was more a matter of fact from my days at University (Mechanical and Aeronautical Degree).
I'm well aware of the internal workings of an engine and how water and oil are kept and flow.
But thanks for your replies all.
However, at some point you as the driver has to decide when it's mechanically safe or sympathetic to move from a place of mechanical sympathy to being able to press the accelerator a little further.
For me as stated letting the car warm up a little before setting off and then keeping it fairly sedate for 10 mins or so is fair game. If someone were to tell me they run around for half an hour before pressing on, then frankly I wouldn't believe them.
I'm well aware of the internal workings of an engine and how water and oil are kept and flow.
But thanks for your replies all.
However, at some point you as the driver has to decide when it's mechanically safe or sympathetic to move from a place of mechanical sympathy to being able to press the accelerator a little further.
For me as stated letting the car warm up a little before setting off and then keeping it fairly sedate for 10 mins or so is fair game. If someone were to tell me they run around for half an hour before pressing on, then frankly I wouldn't believe them.
Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 7th January 16:44
Edited by BiggaJ on Friday 7th January 16:46
BiggaJ said:
My statement was more a matter of fact from my days at University (Mechanical and Aeronautical Degree).
I'm well aware of the internal workings of an engine and how water and oil are kept and flow.
But thanks for your replies all.
Not 100% I’m sure what you’re saying as your original statement ending “Therefore, on this basis if water temp is ok then it's fair to say oil temp will be also.” Is for the most part incorrect.I'm well aware of the internal workings of an engine and how water and oil are kept and flow.
But thanks for your replies all.
Oil does heat quicker than water outside of an engine, but that has no relevance to this where it doesn’t.
Edit: just seen you modded your post. Fair play.
Finding Neutral said:
Not 100% I’m sure what you’re saying as your original statement ending “Therefore, on this basis if water temp is ok then it's fair to say oil temp will be also.” Is for the most part incorrect.
Oil does heat quicker than water outside of an engine, but that has no relevance to this where it doesn’t.
Edit: just seen you modded your post. Fair play.
Oil does heat quicker than water outside of an engine, but that has no relevance to this where it doesn’t.
Edit: just seen you modded your post. Fair play.
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