Warming up your engine?
Discussion
BiggaJ said:
Therefore, on this basis if water temp is ok then it's fair to say oil temp will be also.
Still disagree with this, despite the lesson on the specific heat capacity of the two fluids involved. The temp gauge of my Vantage tells me the water temperature is "OK" after a couple of miles. edited to add this
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2011/05/keep-y...
Edited by LTP on Friday 7th January 18:29
LTP said:
Still disagree with this, despite the lesson on the specific heat capacity of the two fluids involved. The temp gauge of my Vantage tells me the water temperature is "OK" after a couple of miles.
edited to add this
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2011/05/keep-y...
I think you need to ask yourselves as drivers of cars (period) how often do you drive that car hard from cold or whenever? Granted a sports/performance car will be suspect to being driven harder however, you have to balance that with conditions, traffic etc. and in the UK's towns and roads this isn't often available to us.edited to add this
http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2011/05/keep-y...
Edited by LTP on Friday 7th January 18:29
A car driven on the motorway sitting at steady revs in 6th or whatever your top gear is, won't be doing the car any more damage realtively than siting in stop start traffic even from the oil not being fully warm. Driving it hard bouncing off the limiter will shorten life I'm sure if this is how one drives all the time. Fact is all the Aston's I've seen on the road haven't been gunning it, they've been driven sedately and I'm sure Aston have got copious amounts of data relating to how the average driver drives their car.
My point being in most conditions other than perfect, I doubt very much we drive our Aston's within 7/10ths of their ability, maybe less.
Engine oil temp/pressure is obviously important however, if manufacturers thought it was as important as water temp then they would fit the required guages according to the needs of the car i.e. not really required on the daily drivers that we see on the roads.
Yes cars of yesteryear may have been seen with them fitted however, this was at a time of poorer quality oils, a lot thicker and lower wear resistance in the oils, less effective engine design, sealing of mating surfaces etc.
Whereas today a simple light will do to warn of problems. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't treat the engine with respect from first turn of the key from cold for a short period, as I and others have said in this thread.
The coolant will heat MUCH faster than the engine oil. Firstly, the thermostat will restict the route of the coolant to heat the engine quickly but the high oil capacity will take far longer.
I have a BMW with both water and oil temperature gauges and from cold, the coolant will be at normal working temperature in a couple of minutes, the oil temp gauge will take at least 10 minutes.
If you ever change your oil yourself, start the car and allow to run to normal operating temp on the gauge then drop the oil out.........it will still be cool or just lukewarm.
Fact,
and I did automotive and aeronautical engineering at university too, but nothing like practical experience!
I have a BMW with both water and oil temperature gauges and from cold, the coolant will be at normal working temperature in a couple of minutes, the oil temp gauge will take at least 10 minutes.
If you ever change your oil yourself, start the car and allow to run to normal operating temp on the gauge then drop the oil out.........it will still be cool or just lukewarm.
Fact,
and I did automotive and aeronautical engineering at university too, but nothing like practical experience!
BiggaJ said:
I think you need to ask yourselves as drivers of cars (period) how often do you drive that car hard from cold or whenever? Granted a sports/performance car will be suspect to being driven harder however, you have to balance that with conditions, traffic etc. and in the UK's towns and roads this isn't often available to us.
A car driven on the motorway sitting at steady revs in 6th or whatever your top gear is, won't be doing the car any more damage realtively than siting in stop start traffic even from the oil not being fully warm. Driving it hard bouncing off the limiter will shorten life I'm sure if this is how one drives all the time. Fact is all the Aston's I've seen on the road haven't been gunning it, they've been driven sedately and I'm sure Aston have got copious amounts of data relating to how the average driver drives their car.
My point being in most conditions other than perfect, I doubt very much we drive our Aston's within 7/10ths of their ability, maybe less.
Engine oil temp/pressure is obviously important however, if manufacturers thought it was as important as water temp then they would fit the required guages according to the needs of the car i.e. not really required on the daily drivers that we see on the roads.
Yes cars of yesteryear may have been seen with them fitted however, this was at a time of poorer quality oils, a lot thicker and lower wear resistance in the oils, less effective engine design, sealing of mating surfaces etc.
Whereas today a simple light will do to warn of problems. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't treat the engine with respect from first turn of the key from cold for a short period, as I and others have said in this thread.
That's a lot of words just to say "Yeah, sorry, I was wrong"A car driven on the motorway sitting at steady revs in 6th or whatever your top gear is, won't be doing the car any more damage realtively than siting in stop start traffic even from the oil not being fully warm. Driving it hard bouncing off the limiter will shorten life I'm sure if this is how one drives all the time. Fact is all the Aston's I've seen on the road haven't been gunning it, they've been driven sedately and I'm sure Aston have got copious amounts of data relating to how the average driver drives their car.
My point being in most conditions other than perfect, I doubt very much we drive our Aston's within 7/10ths of their ability, maybe less.
Engine oil temp/pressure is obviously important however, if manufacturers thought it was as important as water temp then they would fit the required guages according to the needs of the car i.e. not really required on the daily drivers that we see on the roads.
Yes cars of yesteryear may have been seen with them fitted however, this was at a time of poorer quality oils, a lot thicker and lower wear resistance in the oils, less effective engine design, sealing of mating surfaces etc.
Whereas today a simple light will do to warn of problems. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't treat the engine with respect from first turn of the key from cold for a short period, as I and others have said in this thread.
LTP said:
BiggaJ said:
I think you need to ask yourselves as drivers of cars (period) how often do you drive that car hard from cold or whenever? Granted a sports/performance car will be suspect to being driven harder however, you have to balance that with conditions, traffic etc. and in the UK's towns and roads this isn't often available to us.
A car driven on the motorway sitting at steady revs in 6th or whatever your top gear is, won't be doing the car any more damage realtively than siting in stop start traffic even from the oil not being fully warm. Driving it hard bouncing off the limiter will shorten life I'm sure if this is how one drives all the time. Fact is all the Aston's I've seen on the road haven't been gunning it, they've been driven sedately and I'm sure Aston have got copious amounts of data relating to how the average driver drives their car.
My point being in most conditions other than perfect, I doubt very much we drive our Aston's within 7/10ths of their ability, maybe less.
Engine oil temp/pressure is obviously important however, if manufacturers thought it was as important as water temp then they would fit the required guages according to the needs of the car i.e. not really required on the daily drivers that we see on the roads.
Yes cars of yesteryear may have been seen with them fitted however, this was at a time of poorer quality oils, a lot thicker and lower wear resistance in the oils, less effective engine design, sealing of mating surfaces etc.
Whereas today a simple light will do to warn of problems. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't treat the engine with respect from first turn of the key from cold for a short period, as I and others have said in this thread.
That's a lot of words just to say "Yeah, sorry, I was wrong"A car driven on the motorway sitting at steady revs in 6th or whatever your top gear is, won't be doing the car any more damage realtively than siting in stop start traffic even from the oil not being fully warm. Driving it hard bouncing off the limiter will shorten life I'm sure if this is how one drives all the time. Fact is all the Aston's I've seen on the road haven't been gunning it, they've been driven sedately and I'm sure Aston have got copious amounts of data relating to how the average driver drives their car.
My point being in most conditions other than perfect, I doubt very much we drive our Aston's within 7/10ths of their ability, maybe less.
Engine oil temp/pressure is obviously important however, if manufacturers thought it was as important as water temp then they would fit the required guages according to the needs of the car i.e. not really required on the daily drivers that we see on the roads.
Yes cars of yesteryear may have been seen with them fitted however, this was at a time of poorer quality oils, a lot thicker and lower wear resistance in the oils, less effective engine design, sealing of mating surfaces etc.
Whereas today a simple light will do to warn of problems. But that doesn't mean one shouldn't treat the engine with respect from first turn of the key from cold for a short period, as I and others have said in this thread.
AM4884 said:
As I was building the V12 in my DB9 I installed an oil pressure & temperature gauge. FWIW, it takes about 10-15 minutes to get the oil to 140 degrees. I don't push the motor till the idle pressure is under 40 PSI, and the temp over 140.
10-15 minutes to get to 140 degrees -- that's very useful info. How much does the ambient air temp affect how long the oil takes to warm?I pull the car out of the garage, put the seatbelt on and the phone away, and drive off. I drive very gently until the coolant is up to normal temp, and then wait another 10 minutes or so before I push it, guessing that's enough time/miles to get the oil up to temp. I, too, really wish these cars had oil temp and pressure gauges.
Interestingly, my 2018 Alfa Giulia has an oil temp gauge, but no coolant temp gauge.
The colder it is the longer it takes. I try to include a stop early in my drive as the "cold soak" from the block to the oil occurs and thus the oil is even warmer once I come back to the car. It would be hard to include a oil temp/oil pressure gauge on the engine without removing it. I use one of the unused head oil journey plugs (same as the low oil pressure sensor but opposite head).
NickXX said:
I had an e46 M3 which had variable rev limit lights (based on water temp), and a separate oil temp gauge. It took significantly longer for the oil temp to get up to >3,000rpm temp compared to the water temps. It’s a shame the Vantage doesn’t have an oil temp gauge.
Exactly the same as my BMW X5 4.8iS.Knowledgeable people know that an engine takes longer to warm up than its water jacket. People who don't know won't understand what the gauge is telling them anyway.
Perhaps more useful is transmission temp for an auto box. Transmission fluid degrades very rapidly if it's overheated and knackered fluid can soon lead to a very expensive knackered transmission.
Perhaps more useful is transmission temp for an auto box. Transmission fluid degrades very rapidly if it's overheated and knackered fluid can soon lead to a very expensive knackered transmission.
AM4884 said:
The colder it is the longer it takes. I try to include a stop early in my drive as the "cold soak" from the block to the oil occurs and thus the oil is even warmer once I come back to the car. It would be hard to include a oil temp/oil pressure gauge on the engine without removing it. I use one of the unused head oil journey plugs (same as the low oil pressure sensor but opposite head).
Thanks. Hoping you can clarify for me. You said it takes 10-15 minutes for the oil to get to 140 degrees. Is it 15 minutes on a cold day and 10 minutes on a warm day, or is that just an approximate general range.Re-reading my post, I'll clarify myself. Once the coolant temp is normal, I drive "normally" but still gently, under 3k rpm at the absolute most for at least another 10 minutes. Only after that do I start to drive harder, and I don't really get on it until an additional 10 minutes or so.
I would just drive off shortly after starting, without any waiting while it idles, but would not take the car over 4000rpm until the water temp has reached normal operating temp and thus the oil is reasonably fluid and circulating well, and the engine has been warmed up in an optimal way without putting undue stress on cold parts. This is a process I`ve used all my life with cars.
I`ve been taught that engines do not benefit at all from being warmed up before actual driving, as you`re doing more damage by letting your cold engine idle as they are designed to work best when hot (not to mention polluting the environment as a greater percentage of this occurs when the car engine is not warm). The faster a motor reaches operating temp the better. Letting a car idle before driving in very cold/icy conditions is an even worse idea as it takes even longer for the engine to warm and thus even more wear occurs.
I`ve been taught that engines do not benefit at all from being warmed up before actual driving, as you`re doing more damage by letting your cold engine idle as they are designed to work best when hot (not to mention polluting the environment as a greater percentage of this occurs when the car engine is not warm). The faster a motor reaches operating temp the better. Letting a car idle before driving in very cold/icy conditions is an even worse idea as it takes even longer for the engine to warm and thus even more wear occurs.
AM4884 said:
I think you are driving it correctly - give it some time after the water heats up. 12 Quarts of Oil takes a long time to warm up!
Yes, it really is that basic. It's no accident that modern hatchbacks have less water, less oil and even less metal in their engines than back in the day. Faster warm-up makes it possible for manufacturers to meet economy and emissions targets.Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff