Anyone think it likely...........

[Big Ry]

t0s said:

roughrider said:

UK 400-ish

Correct
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/aston_martin...
but my math wasn't.

I stand corrected. 2/(341-25) That's 0.6%

I'd say that's pretty insignificant then, many people seem to be keeping them I'd say

I do wonder what would happen to that stock pile though IF they did release a V12S Manual, would there suddenly be a load up for sale as people swapped for the S ?

Just a thought.

[jonby]

Big Ry said:

t0s said:

roughrider said:

UK 400-ish

Correct
https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/aston_martin...
but my math wasn't.

I stand corrected. 2/(341-25) That's 0.6%

I'd say that's pretty insignificant then, many people seem to be keeping them I'd say

I do wonder what would happen to that stock pile though IF they did release a V12S Manual, would there suddenly be a load up for sale as people swapped for the S ?

Just a thought.

How much quicker would a manual V12VS be than V12V, if it had a stick ? I suspect at least half of the performance gains came from the gearbox rather than the power

[Big Ry]

jonby said:

How much quicker would a manual V12VS be than V12V, if it had a stick ? I suspect at least half of the performance gains came from the gearbox rather than the power

I'm purely guessing here, but I think it would be more to do with people wanting the last of breed in the garage as opposed to the performance increase etc.

[IanV12VR]

Big Ry said:

I'm purely guessing here, but I think it would be more to do with people wanting the last of breed in the garage as opposed to the performance increase etc.

Jonby is spot on as I suspect the performance gains would be minimal.

Big Ry, you make a very interesting point which was very much my thinking when we bought our V12VR. AML really emphasised how special the car was going to be - the last n/a V12 manual roadster they would build!!!!! Now, perhaps not!

I think that would probably be the last straw for my love of Aston. Just closed my local dealer and then find out that the very special Aston that we bought is no longer as special as we thought it was GRRR......

Edited by IanV12VR on Monday 8th February 17:18

[Jon39]

I believe the Autocar magazine have a good relationship with AML.

In a recent article about the DB11 (if I read correctly), they stated manual gearbox and auto option.
As Jonby mentioned, Andy Palmer has said there will be some manuals in the future.

[jonby]

Big Ry said:

jonby said:

How much quicker would a manual V12VS be than V12V, if it had a stick ? I suspect at least half of the performance gains came from the gearbox rather than the power

I'm purely guessing here, but I think it would be more to do with people wanting the last of breed in the garage as opposed to the performance increase etc.

You're quite right, but bearing in mind the cost of change for a coupe owner would likely be £50k, I'm not sure, in answer to those asking about the possible flood of V12V coupes to the market, how many would change up solely for that reason

[woodsypedia]

jonby said:

You're quite right, but bearing in mind the cost of change for a coupe owner would likely be £50k, I'm not sure, in answer to those asking about the possible flood of V12V coupes to the market, how many would change up solely for that reason

I would. I missed the chance to buy one new first time around as I was country hopping for work. If they did do another V12 manual I'd go for it - it's the chance to spec it exactly how I'd want. The car I have is great don't get me wrong, but there are little tweaks I'd make for the ultimate personalisation. I know Q could do this, but the cost would be much higher than just changing the car I think. With all that said, it would also be subject to natural aspiration.

Regards the vantage note, do you think they could be further down the with AMG engines for the Vantage than the new Twin Turbo? Product development logic tells me that they'd want this new engine that's in the DB11 in as many cars as possible - a) to reduce emissions, b) to expedite the ROI for the engine dev they've already done.

Chris.

[jonby]

woodsypedia said:

jonby said:

You're quite right, but bearing in mind the cost of change for a coupe owner would likely be £50k, I'm not sure, in answer to those asking about the possible flood of V12V coupes to the market, how many would change up solely for that reason

I would. I missed the chance to buy one new first time around as I was country hopping for work. If they did do another V12 manual I'd go for it - it's the chance to spec it exactly how I'd want. The car I have is great don't get me wrong, but there are little tweaks I'd make for the ultimate personalisation. I know Q could do this, but the cost would be much higher than just changing the car I think. With all that said, it would also be subject to natural aspiration.

Regards the vantage note, do you think they could be further down the with AMG engines for the Vantage than the new Twin Turbo? Product development logic tells me that they'd want this new engine that's in the DB11 in as many cars as possible - a) to reduce emissions, b) to expedite the ROI for the engine dev they've already done.

Chris.

I'm sure some would, as you say you would, I just don't see enough doing it that it would create a glut of cars on the market. In fact, if it was limited to say 100 cars, it could do the opposite a little like the 4.0 997 RS prices going bonkers in turn lifted the Gen 1 & Gen 2 cars

As for engine in new vantage, I honestly don't know but we do know the AMG V8 4.0 is to feature in some Astons - that's publicly announced. We know that at some stage, it will feature in DB11, at which stage I think it will sit alongside a by then, uprated version of the V12 TT (as opposed to replacing the V12 TT) as I don't see them dropping the V12 TT a yr or two after launch

Given that seems fairly well established, I can't imagine Vantage will launch with anything other than the AMG engine.

I think you also have to bear in mind that with DB11, as with Bentley Continental, they can get away with a V12 selling alongside a V8 which is the better car on a prestige basis. But with vantage, the only way the V12 TT will sit alongside the V8 is if it offers serious performance advantages, which I think means a more highly tuned 650+ bhp version - such an engine will surely definitely come, but probably not for at least 2 yrs in vantage - they have to surely put that higher powered version of the V12 TT in vanquish in a year or so's time, as it will struggle to sell as is against DB11

It actually wouldn't surprise me if new vantage simply had the V8 4.0 in several states of tune - it can already push out more than 500bhp in the AMG GT and I assume it could get up to 600bhp

[Flugplatz]

Big Ry said:

Do you mean a limited run sounds more like Porsche thing or the price issue ?

No, I mean hanging their customers out to dry.

I don't want a manual car and the V12S gearbox is absolute perfection to me however if AM did do a manual V12S it would effect V12S residuals heavily as everyone would think the manual is going to appreciate whether that is true or not, so if AM put the manual in the V12S they would be showing blatant disregard for their existing V12S customers and would lose most of us as brand supporters if they did it.

[Big Ry]

Flugplatz said:

No, I mean hanging their customers out to dry.

I don't want a manual car and the V12S gearbox is absolute perfection to me however if AM did do a manual V12S it would effect V12S residuals heavily as everyone would think the manual is going to appreciate whether that is true or not, so if AM put the manual in the V12S they would be showing blatant disregard for their existing V12S customers and would lose most of us as brand supporters if they did it.

I hear you but i'm afraid I don't agree. If AM can see a serious business case for producing a manual and the numbers stack up, then I don't think they wouldn't do it in case existing owners get pissed off with it. Their business is to sell cars after all, and whilst I appreciate you might not buy one, I'm sure they'd have no problem in shifting them.

[Flugplatz]

Big Ry said:

Their business is to sell cars after all, and whilst I appreciate you might not buy one, I'm sure they'd have no problem in shifting them.

And by retaining customers faith in the brand they will sell more cars in the long run.
I think it would show that AM understand and support their customers and we would repay their faith with further orders over the coming years.

[AMDBSNick]

Flugplatz said:

No, I mean hanging their customers out to dry.

I don't want a manual car and the V12S gearbox is absolute perfection to me however if AM did do a manual V12S it would effect V12S residuals heavily as everyone would think the manual is going to appreciate whether that is true or not, so if AM put the manual in the V12S they would be showing blatant disregard for their existing V12S customers and would lose most of us as brand supporters if they did it.

Were you sold your car on the basis it would only ever be SS3

[silverspeed]

IanV12VR said:

Jonby is spot on as I suspect the performance gains would be minimal.

Big Ry, you make a very interesting point which was very much my thinking when we bought our V12VR. AML really emphasised how special the car was going to be - the last n/a V12 manual roadster they would build!!!!! Now, perhaps not!

I think that would probably be the last straw for my love of Aston. Just closed my local dealer and then find out that the very special Aston that we bought is no longer as special as we thought it was GRRR......

Edited by IanV12VR on Monday 8th February 17:18

Totally agree. I was at the lunch at Gaydon where Dr Bez told us there would be the opportunity to purchase the limited run V12VR . That was it when all 101 were sold that was it . They pushed the boundaries when SR was launched with Sportshift !

[Flugplatz]

AMDBSNick said:

Were you sold your car on the basis it would only ever be SS3

errr.... Yes. Everybody was as the Manual V12R was a limited edition of just 101 examples.

[AMDBSNick]

Flugplatz said:

errr.... Yes. Everybody was as the Manual V12R was a limited edition of just 101 examples.

The V12R was not an "S" or have I missed something

[Flugplatz]

AMDBSNick said:

The V12R was not an "S" or have I missed something

The manual roadster is not an s and does not have the S upgrades. It was limited to 101 examples.

The S comes with sportshift only. If it became available with a manual that would make the existence of Manual V12 Roadsters exceed the promised 101 even if it did have a "s" spec.

[Big Ry]

Flugplatz said:

And by retaining customers faith in the brand they will sell more cars in the long run.
I think it would show that AM understand and support their customers and we would repay their faith with further orders over the coming years.

I think very few existing owners would sell up and buy something else in this scenario. Remember the only real issue here would be the people who bought new V12VR's as that was the only limited run. Even then some existing owners would jump at the chance to order an SR manual.

If AM had the opportunity to sell another few hundred units as they were manuals, then I would rather they did that and topped up the coffers.

All just my humble opinion of course.

[AMDBSNick]

Flugplatz said:

The manual roadster is not an s and does not have the S upgrades. It was limited to 101 examples.

The S comes with sportshift only. If it became available with a manual that would make the existence of Manual V12 Roadsters exceed the promised 101 even if it did have a "s" spec.

One is S spec and one is not. Two completely different models. Fact.

[jonby]

AMDBSNick said:

Flugplatz said:

The manual roadster is not an s and does not have the S upgrades. It was limited to 101 examples.

The S comes with sportshift only. If it became available with a manual that would make the existence of Manual V12 Roadsters exceed the promised 101 even if it did have a "s" spec.

One is S spec and one is not. Two completely different models. Fact.

legally there is no question they could do it. The fact that it would upset some owners of V12V (particularly roadster) is something I have no doubt AML would have little concern about - unfortunately. McLaren and their dealers, in different ways, who promised it would be a different experience to Ferrari purchases, have unfortunately acted similarly. As others have said, they will all make what sells

having said that, I suspect the market will simply be considered too limited for such a car, if it is indeed made, to be made as coupe & roadster- perhaps a coupe in a run of say 100-150. If it is indeed produced - I still think it's seen as a nice idea, but simply too risky over say a marginally souped up V12VS, say with SS, GT12 exhaust & more extreme aero which would sell just as well, carry fewer concerns and be far cheaper to put into production

[Flugplatz]

AMDBSNick said:

One is S spec and one is not. Two completely different models. Fact.

Hmmmm...