When will AM put new car prices up to reflect Brexit?
Discussion
tonyhall38 said:
Tariffs....what tariffs.....more speculation....the eu will need to do business with us....its in their own interest .....putting any form of tariff on any future trade deals would be suicide for a lot of small companies based in Europe....besides...believe it or not there are other countries on this planet we can deal with...wiThout tariffs.....ASTON if you recall didn't do to bad when owned by ford.....an American company.....
Project Fear is alive and kicking mate.Apparently Germany will be asking for the Queen back
The German car manufacturers are now talking. They are very anxious that they continue to sell (tariff free) to the UK, their 800,000 cars each year. German automaker jobs depend on us. The UK is their single biggest export market.
Dieter Zetsche (Daimler-Benz CEO) probably has a hot line to Mrs Merkel. Do you think he is better placed to negotiate a good trade deal for us, than any UK politician?
KarlFranz said:
Bigger than USA? Wow.
No, not bigger than USA, Karl.
Everything is bigger in the USA. -
We are hoping that our importance to the German car manufacturers, will now help with the necessary trade negotiations.
Daimler-Benz and BMW undoubtedly have some clout with their own politicians.
Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 26th June 20:26
Unfortunately it wont be as simple as that imho.
You cannot see any future deal with the UK as simplistic as "they need us, so they are going to make deals with us".
EU has two options, which is the bigger evil?:
1- Make decent trade deals with the UK, but then risk sending out the wrong message to other EU-countries that its okay to leave the EU and get away with it...
2- Play as hardball as possible, with consequences on own GDP but limit the risk of others even think about leaving EU. So short term pain for long term stability.
SO im sorry to say, but the "logic"boat has long sailed and Im afraid that things are going to get messy.
Time will tell.
You cannot see any future deal with the UK as simplistic as "they need us, so they are going to make deals with us".
EU has two options, which is the bigger evil?:
1- Make decent trade deals with the UK, but then risk sending out the wrong message to other EU-countries that its okay to leave the EU and get away with it...
2- Play as hardball as possible, with consequences on own GDP but limit the risk of others even think about leaving EU. So short term pain for long term stability.
SO im sorry to say, but the "logic"boat has long sailed and Im afraid that things are going to get messy.
Time will tell.
Brakke said:
Unfortunately it wont be as simple as that imho.
You cannot see any future deal with the UK as simplistic as "they need us, so they are going to make deals with us".
EU has two options, which is the bigger evil?:
1- Make decent trade deals with the UK, but then risk sending out the wrong message to other EU-countries that its okay to leave the EU and get away with it...
2- Play as hardball as possible, with consequences on own GDP but limit the risk of others even think about leaving EU. So short term pain for long term stability.
SO im sorry to say, but the "logic"boat has long sailed and Im afraid that things are going to get messy.
Time will tell.
Disagree. Negotiators are pragmatic. They are not interested in petty squabbles.You cannot see any future deal with the UK as simplistic as "they need us, so they are going to make deals with us".
EU has two options, which is the bigger evil?:
1- Make decent trade deals with the UK, but then risk sending out the wrong message to other EU-countries that its okay to leave the EU and get away with it...
2- Play as hardball as possible, with consequences on own GDP but limit the risk of others even think about leaving EU. So short term pain for long term stability.
SO im sorry to say, but the "logic"boat has long sailed and Im afraid that things are going to get messy.
Time will tell.
Its called interdependence in global markets.
JLR warning in internal documents (that Reuters claims to have seen) that Brexit will cost them gbp1bn per annum. if you do a factory tour of Jaguar there are boxes everywhere of components labelled (made in Germany).
Andy Palmer on Reuters saying AMLwill look productivity improvements (hope that doesn't mean job losses!)
Pound down another 2% in early trading. Fingers crossed no-one noticed the UK deficit....
Andy Palmer on Reuters saying AMLwill look productivity improvements (hope that doesn't mean job losses!)
Pound down another 2% in early trading. Fingers crossed no-one noticed the UK deficit....
Jockman said:
Disagree. Negotiators are pragmatic. They are not interested in petty squabbles.
Its called interdependence in global markets.
Agreed that they are pragmatic. They are pragmattically looking at the consequences of an easy Brexit vs a difficult Brexit.Its called interdependence in global markets.
If its an easy Brexit it could be an incentive for others to follow.
But hey....on the good side: the GBP is dropping so hard, that Im contacting a few dealers in the UK for the purchase of a new V12 manual to add to my stable
I think the WTO tariff on cars is up to 3.7% which means that people who buy premium prodcuts won't really notice as they are on the never-never anyhow! People will always pay the price as it is supply and demand (created by marketing etc) not tarffis that get these cars sold. In our class system you can't beat the "I've got a Beemer, Merc, Audi" line over "I've got an Aygo, Civic" etc.
The little cars will be affected especially as 70+% of all car parts are imported and these could have tariffs applied to them (alright JLR always quote 50% but when they move to Slovakia they'll take the supply contracts with them). So I expect that as new models are developed a good proportion of UK manufacture will go to the EU where plants have capcity, the trade agreements in the EU and with the rest of the world are a known quantity, and it is realtively stable. Give it 2 years as that will be when the new models are being brought into production ready status. Shame really as it is in the manufacturing sector that most of the jobs are and on whom most service industries ultimatley depend - accepted this doesn't apply to you city types!
As for me head down, ignore the flack, invest in the EU and retire!
The little cars will be affected especially as 70+% of all car parts are imported and these could have tariffs applied to them (alright JLR always quote 50% but when they move to Slovakia they'll take the supply contracts with them). So I expect that as new models are developed a good proportion of UK manufacture will go to the EU where plants have capcity, the trade agreements in the EU and with the rest of the world are a known quantity, and it is realtively stable. Give it 2 years as that will be when the new models are being brought into production ready status. Shame really as it is in the manufacturing sector that most of the jobs are and on whom most service industries ultimatley depend - accepted this doesn't apply to you city types!
As for me head down, ignore the flack, invest in the EU and retire!
Edited by Veg on Monday 27th June 10:17
I fear that demand will drop across the board even with drop in sterling. Generally the kind of people who buy these cars will be impacted by market chaos and will delay any big purchases. I know I would. In fact I've already decided against the engine upgrade I was planning until I have a clearer idea of job prospects and financial future. Something good may come of this in the long term but short to medium we are all up s
t creek without a paddle.
t creek without a paddle. This thread has actually got me thinking.
Pro-exit funder on Radio 4 this morning making the perfectly valid point that a weak pound massively helps our manufacturing base.
However, this was based on the assumption that we manufacture everything. If the likes of AM, as many other manufacturers in the UK are, really just assemble components manufactured overseas, then the weak pound will just as equally increase the price of those imports.
So, overall, everything just balances out and we neither gain nor lose. It would be a whole other story if we actually manufactured from raw materials (or, better yet, produced those raw materials too).
Or is my school-level economics failing me yet again?
Pro-exit funder on Radio 4 this morning making the perfectly valid point that a weak pound massively helps our manufacturing base.
However, this was based on the assumption that we manufacture everything. If the likes of AM, as many other manufacturers in the UK are, really just assemble components manufactured overseas, then the weak pound will just as equally increase the price of those imports.
So, overall, everything just balances out and we neither gain nor lose. It would be a whole other story if we actually manufactured from raw materials (or, better yet, produced those raw materials too).
Or is my school-level economics failing me yet again?
Veg said:
The little cars will be affected especially as 70+% of all car parts are imported and these could have tariffs applied to them (alright JLR always quote 50% but when they move to Slovakia they'll take the supply contracts with them). So I expect that as new models are developed a good proportion of UK manufacture will go to the EU where plants have capcity, the trade agreements in the EU and with the rest of the world are a known quantity, and it is realtively stable. Give it 2 years as that will be when the new models are being brought into production ready status. Shame really as it is in the manufacturing sector that most of the jobs are and on whom most service industries ultimatley depend - accepted this doesn't apply to you city types!
You have heard of TTIP? The EU and USA have constantly been unable to agree on a trade deal. This has become even more unlikely with Brexit.Stability? The Euro currency? Greece is bust, Italy and Spain hanging on by a thread. France imploding. Netherlands election in March next year with a referendum party leading, Le Pen standing for Presidential election in France next year with a referendum mandate. The EU only has 2 net contributors, the other 26 states take out more than they put in. This fell to one net contributor with Brexit leaving Germany alone to carry all the others.
Of the 190 or so countries in the world only 8 make more products than the UK. We are in the top 5% of manufacturers in the world. And our exports just became massively more competitive.
Nope - you're broadly correct - just keep in mind it's a two way flow though. We take components from Europe and assemble them into finished product (Mini's are the classic example). But equally we take materials from overseas and assemble them into components for European manufactuers to export. It's a symbiotic relationship.
The difficulty would come if EU manufacturers decide that actually it's simpler to choose an EU based competitor for components than a UK one. And that will depend on tariffs, red tape (that could be a high friction cost) and currency factors
The other difficulty is that 14 percent of our trade is with the rest of the world using preferential terms negotiated by the EU. We lose those the day we leave the EU and negotiating new ones typically takes a decade or so. But I won't go any further with that line of discussion or the flat-earthers will be after me
The difficulty would come if EU manufacturers decide that actually it's simpler to choose an EU based competitor for components than a UK one. And that will depend on tariffs, red tape (that could be a high friction cost) and currency factors
The other difficulty is that 14 percent of our trade is with the rest of the world using preferential terms negotiated by the EU. We lose those the day we leave the EU and negotiating new ones typically takes a decade or so. But I won't go any further with that line of discussion or the flat-earthers will be after me
The EU should have concentrated on FreeTrade agreements and not wanting to go down the Fedralism path.
Fedralism always appeared to me to be a very risky strategy.
I have never understood how countries with completely different cultures and working practices could be successfully economically harmonised when they were all at different stages in their development.
If the bar to entry to the EU had been set and kept at a high level it may have succeeded.
By bending their own rules of entry they have badly messed up.
Fedralism always appeared to me to be a very risky strategy.
I have never understood how countries with completely different cultures and working practices could be successfully economically harmonised when they were all at different stages in their development.
If the bar to entry to the EU had been set and kept at a high level it may have succeeded.
By bending their own rules of entry they have badly messed up.
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