Discussion
Vernor75 said:
Jealous of the lightweight seats, they are not an option here in the States. If any of you in the UK or areas where lightweight seats may be ordered, I'd be interested in ordering "replacement" seats for your car. Would love to have them as our std seats are a bit too wide/bolstered for my preference.
I'm sure Bamford Rose have fitted lightweights to at least one car (William's GT4 Teaspoon). They now have a US outlet/partnership so I'm sure you could do something through them. I understand the seats are made by Recaro. As I'm sure you know the problem with them in the US is something to do with side airbags but if there is a way around this then just do it because they massively enhance the driving feel.Vernor75 said:
Same colour, likely just due to lighting, camera and a poor photographer. I keep the other car at a different location but I'll bring them together and take a picture. The paint code for both cars is the same, we'll see how well they mixed the paints to match.
Jealous of the lightweight seats, they are not an option here in the States. If any of you in the UK or areas where lightweight seats may be ordered, I'd be interested in ordering "replacement" seats for your car. Would love to have them as our std seats are a bit too wide/bolstered for my preference.
I was given a supply and fit price last week by Aston Martin Cambridge, £18,000!Jealous of the lightweight seats, they are not an option here in the States. If any of you in the UK or areas where lightweight seats may be ordered, I'd be interested in ordering "replacement" seats for your car. Would love to have them as our std seats are a bit too wide/bolstered for my preference.
jazzybee said:
Quick question - but may be a little silly... What would be required to take an older (2014) V12VS Automated Manual and change it to a normal manual given the release of the new car, given it uses the same 7 speed gearbox? What would have to be changed? and would it be 'viable'?
I was wondering the same thing myself a few weeks ago. If possible it would make a very tempting conversion to apply to a GT12!For those interested, the V12 Vantage S will be a contender on MotorTrend's "2016 Best Driver's Car"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NntOF1AoGPg
Good to hear two Astons got shortlisted for being the best drivers car of the year by two different car magazines in US and Europe (well, the GT8 in ECOTY is, apparently, still a rumour http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NntOF1AoGPg
Good to hear two Astons got shortlisted for being the best drivers car of the year by two different car magazines in US and Europe (well, the GT8 in ECOTY is, apparently, still a rumour http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... )
Interesting opinions there - ended up in last place as more of a GT than a hot lap type of car. Loved the engine but again problems with the shifter (perhaps due to testing abuse). Best acceleration to be had starting in 2nd....
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclaren/570/2016/20...
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/mclaren/570/2016/20...
Edited by 12pack on Thursday 22 September 17:09
Gettoff said:
No surprise they mentioned the shift quality really, it spoils what could have been a great swansong for the Vantage, UK demo car was the same. Maybe it was well used and abused but if so, why send a nail round for reviewers and more importantly, potential customers to try?
If you want a track machine, then you buy the SSM version. It is pretty obvious that a manual has no chance against cars equipped with DCTs. The manual is really for someone who is happy with having to make deliberate shifts and the 'slowness' that results. So, calling the V12VS 7-speed manual at GT makes perfect sense.DB9VolanteDriver said:
Gettoff said:
No surprise they mentioned the shift quality really, it spoils what could have been a great swansong for the Vantage, UK demo car was the same. Maybe it was well used and abused but if so, why send a nail round for reviewers and more importantly, potential customers to try?
If you want a track machine, then you buy the SSM version. It is pretty obvious that a manual has no chance against cars equipped with DCTs. The manual is really for someone who is happy with having to make deliberate shifts and the 'slowness' that results. So, calling the V12VS 7-speed manual at GT makes perfect sense.Having a tough time figuring out the rationale for the finishing order in this test. For example, what are they using to evaluate merit as a "driver's car"? Based on the amount of text devoted to behaviour on track and at the absolute limit (i.e. non real world/real road scenarios), it would appear they feel that driver's cars first and foremost must be circuit ready.
The motoring press seems rather confused these days. They wax poetic about the good old days of hydraulically assisted steering that actually had 'feel', manual transmissions, naturally aspirated engines and all other forms of driver engagement, but then they appear to favour the latest tech and lap times when the final judgments are made.
I have zero interest in most of the contestants as engaging road cars, other than the Aston, save for maybe the McLaren.
The motoring press seems rather confused these days. They wax poetic about the good old days of hydraulically assisted steering that actually had 'feel', manual transmissions, naturally aspirated engines and all other forms of driver engagement, but then they appear to favour the latest tech and lap times when the final judgments are made.
I have zero interest in most of the contestants as engaging road cars, other than the Aston, save for maybe the McLaren.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
If you want a track machine, then you buy the SSM version. It is pretty obvious that a manual has no chance against cars equipped with DCTs. The manual is really for someone who is happy with having to make deliberate shifts and the 'slowness' that results. .
....though the other manual rwd cars (Camaro and Viper) were much better received and apparently a lot quicker than our old girl.RobDown said:
A Camarro finished 4th and the Dodge Viper 5th
Love both of them but I think Motor Trend lost credibility for me at that point there. I can see why Ferrari and Lamorghini won't let them have cars to test
LOL. Why did it lose credibility? They are both competent cars, particularly on a circuit, and for the price, they offer a lot of performance, typical of American sports cars. And Motor Trend is an American publication. Are you going to tell me that a British publication wouldn't favour homegrown cars?Love both of them but I think Motor Trend lost credibility for me at that point there. I can see why Ferrari and Lamorghini won't let them have cars to test
As for Ferrari and Lambo, most of the plausible reasons for refusing to give up test cars that come to my mind have negative connotations (elitist attitude, couldn't be bothered, concerns over being beaten etc.)
RobDown said:
That's what I meant Quench - it quickly lost credibility (and relevance) to a non-US owner. I doubt whether many here will cancel their order for an (anything) to be buying a Dodge Viper, even if it does now come with a wing
I used to compete against Vipers and Corvettes in club racing for a few years. Changed my perception of American cars. They are really fit for purpose and not to be sneered at. This is coming from someone who is considering getting a V12S.And this is what Chris Harris thinks:
[url=url]http://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives/chris-harris-drives-645bhp-dodge-viper-acr[\url]
Blast, can't work out how to embed a link. No wonder I like old tech manuals...
I don't have a problem with the inclusion of US cars as at the end of day as pointed out this is a US magazine.
My disappointment with this article was that it clearly focused far too much on track performance for what was titled as a "drivers car" award. In that respect I quickly found the whole article a let down - they should have just called it "best track car" or just "best car" then it would have been more credible.
Evo have two distinct categories of "drivers car" and "track car". Lets hope they do a better job with the review of the GT8 in their "drivers car" awards.
My disappointment with this article was that it clearly focused far too much on track performance for what was titled as a "drivers car" award. In that respect I quickly found the whole article a let down - they should have just called it "best track car" or just "best car" then it would have been more credible.
Evo have two distinct categories of "drivers car" and "track car". Lets hope they do a better job with the review of the GT8 in their "drivers car" awards.
It is perfectly reasonable for price to come in to the equation when comparing cars
There is absolutely no way GT8 or GT12 can be considered as being worth anything remotely close to their list prices, unless one takes into account strong residuals (and appreciation) as a result of ultra low volume.
In the same way that when testing a 991 GT3 RS, magazines will talk about what excellent value they represent despite the fact that for the vast majority of the population, that car isn't available other than for a £100k premium over list in the used market
Put simply, whether a 'driver car' test or a 'trackcar' test, performance/price come into the equation. Both Aston GT models frankly look pretty silly on the basis. Even regular V12VS looks pretty silly on that basis. So it's no surprise in the big multi car tests that Astons tend not to fare that well. How can a journo ignore just what else is out there for GT8 money, or what is out there with GT8 performance for half the price ? I know bang for the buck isn't everything - I am an Aston owner after all ! But as I say, can't expect a car with the performance of GT8 or GT12 to fare well given their cost price compared to performance that a BMW M4 could probably beat
There is absolutely no way GT8 or GT12 can be considered as being worth anything remotely close to their list prices, unless one takes into account strong residuals (and appreciation) as a result of ultra low volume.
In the same way that when testing a 991 GT3 RS, magazines will talk about what excellent value they represent despite the fact that for the vast majority of the population, that car isn't available other than for a £100k premium over list in the used market
Put simply, whether a 'driver car' test or a 'trackcar' test, performance/price come into the equation. Both Aston GT models frankly look pretty silly on the basis. Even regular V12VS looks pretty silly on that basis. So it's no surprise in the big multi car tests that Astons tend not to fare that well. How can a journo ignore just what else is out there for GT8 money, or what is out there with GT8 performance for half the price ? I know bang for the buck isn't everything - I am an Aston owner after all ! But as I say, can't expect a car with the performance of GT8 or GT12 to fare well given their cost price compared to performance that a BMW M4 could probably beat
jonby said:
It is perfectly reasonable for price to come in to the equation when comparing cars
There is absolutely no way GT8 or GT12 can be considered as being worth anything remotely close to their list prices, unless one takes into account strong residuals (and appreciation) as a result of ultra low volume.
In the same way that when testing a 991 GT3 RS, magazines will talk about what excellent value they represent despite the fact that for the vast majority of the population, that car isn't available other than for a £100k premium over list in the used market
Put simply, whether a 'driver car' test or a 'trackcar' test, performance/price come into the equation. Both Aston GT models frankly look pretty silly on the basis. Even regular V12VS looks pretty silly on that basis. So it's no surprise in the big multi car tests that Astons tend not to fare that well. How can a journo ignore just what else is out there for GT8 money, or what is out there with GT8 performance for half the price ? I know bang for the buck isn't everything - I am an Aston owner after all ! But as I say, can't expect a car with the performance of GT8 or GT12 to fare well given their cost price compared to performance that a BMW M4 could probably beat
I think price is an important factor ONLY for these type of comparisons: http://www.caroftheyear.org/There is absolutely no way GT8 or GT12 can be considered as being worth anything remotely close to their list prices, unless one takes into account strong residuals (and appreciation) as a result of ultra low volume.
In the same way that when testing a 991 GT3 RS, magazines will talk about what excellent value they represent despite the fact that for the vast majority of the population, that car isn't available other than for a £100k premium over list in the used market
Put simply, whether a 'driver car' test or a 'trackcar' test, performance/price come into the equation. Both Aston GT models frankly look pretty silly on the basis. Even regular V12VS looks pretty silly on that basis. So it's no surprise in the big multi car tests that Astons tend not to fare that well. How can a journo ignore just what else is out there for GT8 money, or what is out there with GT8 performance for half the price ? I know bang for the buck isn't everything - I am an Aston owner after all ! But as I say, can't expect a car with the performance of GT8 or GT12 to fare well given their cost price compared to performance that a BMW M4 could probably beat
BUT I don't think it is/should be the key ingredient when comparing the type of cars usually featured in EVO's "ECOTY" or Motor Trend "Best Drivers cars". These are niche publications made for petrolheads and therefore the focus is (should be) much more on the qualitative aspects. It wins the car that gives the better emotions/feel to the driver. It is about feelings and "specialness" more than a numbers-based competition.
In simple terms, I think ECOTY & C. wants to provide an answer to a very simple question: If you had all the 2016 cars in your garage, at your disposal, which one would you pick for a couple of hours for pure driving pleasure on your Sunday morning?
I bet you would pick a GT8 over an M4 all day long, even if you are German!
If rumours around ECOTY 2016 car-list are true, I think there is a reason why they picked the GT8 and not the DB11.
I also believe MotorTrend got it a bit wrong this year with the V12SM, it really seemed their decision was heavily biased by the poor lap time achieved at Laguna seca rather than the whole package itself.
..and no doubt the slower lap time was partly due lack of familiarity with the car given its tail-happy behavior under power (note the drift around turn 11 on the video) and the gear box. Though I must say my personal experience with the China grey/yellow demo also had me very concerned that this manual is beyond just slower than a DCT. It felt more difficult and hence slower than any other manual that I have experienced apart from my old 355.
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