brand stretch

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Discussion

RobDown

Original Poster:

3,803 posts

127 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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Aston Martin have announced a deal to build a block of luxury apartments in Florida (AML does the interior design, someone else builds them). And apparently a private jet is next. All according to the FT

I can't help but think this is getting a bit too ambitious; too many projects on the go

The one positive is that it seems the idea is to generate money to reinvest back in the car business


pschlute

714 posts

158 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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Tacky.

TKP

127 posts

90 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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RobDown said:
The one positive is that it seems the idea is to generate money to reinvest back in the car business
Would be great but I doubt it. AML is to major degree owned by PE if I'm not mistaken; that's the typical strategy: grow the brand like crazy and exit it before it goes down the drain because no one wants to buy AM cars if there is AM toilet paper on the market...

Milk the cow until it's dead but sell the cow before it dies.

telum01

987 posts

114 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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They already have a boat and furniture.

At least it isn't as bad as Ferrari. They'll stick their logo on anything with a surface big enough. A friend of mine has a Ferrari USB charger...


TKP

127 posts

90 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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I tend to agree to your Ferrari remark, on the other hand IIRC, Ferrari will keep production limited even as demand is beyond the production limit. Lambo, Porsche, etc. just sell everything they can even if exclusivity goes down the drain (which for me personally is not relevant; I drive a car that I think looks great and if more people would drive it, I would be happy to look at beautiful cars more often biggrin ).

Question: what car is this on the pic?

telum01

987 posts

114 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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TKP said:
Question: what car is this on the pic?
Twin-turbo R8 V10 (they also have a Ferrari)

TKP

127 posts

90 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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telum01 said:
Twin-turbo R8 V10 (they also have a Ferrari)
That doesn't sound like the V10 as it comes from the factory tongue out

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Wednesday 26th October 2016
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TKP said:
RobDown said:
The one positive is that it seems the idea is to generate money to reinvest back in the car business
Would be great but I doubt it. AML is to major degree owned by PE if I'm not mistaken; that's the typical strategy: grow the brand like crazy and exit it before it goes down the drain because no one wants to buy AM cars if there is AM toilet paper on the market...

Milk the cow until it's dead but sell the cow before it dies.

The investors have put enormous sums of money into AML, which must be being spent fairly quickly at present, because there are so many new models under development.

One shop, some speedboats, and now we hear, blocks of flats in USA, seems most odd to me. Diversification was the buzzword in the 1970s and 1980s, but after that, selling subsidiaries and concentrating on the core business became the norm.

As planned by Dr. Palmer, the SUVs seem to be the only hope of profitability.
It sounds as though they are going to be very highly priced, but hopefully there will be sufficient demand. Until there are profits, I doubt that the shareholders would find it very easy to sell, and make a gain for themselves anyway.





Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 26th October 22:29

DB9VolanteDriver

2,612 posts

175 months

Thursday 27th October 2016
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Designing interiors for some building company hardly costs AM any money. Marek and his team draw up some ideas, call it Aston Martin Design, and call it a day. Don't see the problem with that.

TKP

127 posts

90 months

Thursday 27th October 2016
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Jon39 said:
Diversification was the buzzword in the 1970s and 1980s, but after that, selling subsidiaries and concentrating on the core business became the norm.
I would call it "diversification" what is going on today in nearly all brands/companies owned by PE. Most of it is out-licensing the brand name to everything the badge sticks on with very little real input from the company. The result is growth and easy profit but as well a dilution of the brand heritage, especially if some of the products suck or have no real connection to the values of brand.

With the apartments they are building I would guess quality is high and price even higher but I doubt that anyone in the world would recognize them as "AM designed" without some badges stuck here and there. But let's wait for pics.

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Thursday 27th October 2016
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TKP said:
I would call it "diversification" what is going on today in nearly all brands/companies owned by PE. Most of it is out-licensing the brand name to everything the badge sticks on with very little real input from the company. The result is growth and easy profit but as well a dilution of the brand heritage, especially if some of the products suck or have no real connection to the values of brand.

With the apartments they are building I would guess quality is high and price even higher but I doubt that anyone in the world would recognize them as "AM designed" without some badges stuck here and there. But let's wait for pics.

Yes, but I cannot see much financial benefit for AML.

With the debt of (is it £500 million), and losses last year of (figure not to hand but considerable), whatever profit happens to be made on a block of flats deal, hardly helps at all.

The mind boggles. Wimpy Homes might put their name on sports cars next.





Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 27th October 09:57

TKP

127 posts

90 months

Thursday 27th October 2016
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The AM V12VSR "Wimpy Home Edition" for 300k might be a shopkeeper... and in 30 years it's an infamous classic with ridiculous pricing woohoo

Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Thursday 27th October 2016
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DB9VolanteDriver said:
Designing interiors for some building company hardly costs AM any money. Marek and his team draw up some ideas, call it Aston Martin Design, and call it a day. Don't see the problem with that.
I tend to agree with this.

Houses and boats are unlikely to be absorbing significant time from the people who should be spending all their time improving the cars.

Follies like the Cygnet however...

Jon39

12,782 posts

142 months

Thursday 27th October 2016
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Murph7355 said:
Follies like the Cygnet however...

Your comment made me wonder, how the sales of the Taraf model is going.
At the asking price, it is probably not expected to sell many in the UK market.

The last time that I looked, only 1 was registered in the UK, and presumably that car would probably be owned by AML.





Ken Figenus

5,678 posts

116 months

Thursday 27th October 2016
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TKP said:
I tend to agree to your Ferrari remark, on the other hand IIRC, Ferrari will keep production limited even as demand is beyond the production limit. Lambo, Porsche, etc. just sell everything they can even if exclusivity goes down the drain
I disagree as Porsche is an utter switch off 'forget about them' for me as they couldn't sell me the car I wanted - despite making me write them a nice letter about wanting such a car - one that I wasn't able to even see or test drive! Whatever - got a stunning NA V12 with a stunningly classy British interior instead. Auf wiedersehen wink

I dont blame Aston for levering their brand IP value - they need the funds and there must surely be far higher intrinsic value in this brand than many. I look forward to the AM jet-ski as much as I do the Ferrari stroller buggy!



TKP

127 posts

90 months

Thursday 27th October 2016
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Ken Figenus said:
I disagree as Porsche is an utter switch off 'forget about them' for me as they couldn't sell me the car I wanted - despite making me write them a nice letter about wanting such a car - one that I wasn't able to even see or test drive! Whatever - got a stunning NA V12 with a stunningly classy British interior instead. Auf wiedersehen wink
Well, being German, I don't want to enter in a British forum into a comparison of the two automotive industries as they are today tongue out But as I drive an AML, I hope that I can be tolerated.

Regarding Porsche I assume you talk about some of these limited cars? 991 R? GT3 RS? Sport Classic? I think, to be fair, those "editions" are an issue with every brand; they never go on sale. Try to get an FXX... having EUR 1.5m is the smallest issue...

Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Friday 28th October 2016
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Jon39 said:
Your comment made me wonder, how the sales of the Taraf model is going.
At the asking price, it is probably not expected to sell many in the UK market.

The last time that I looked, only 1 was registered in the UK, and presumably that car would probably be owned by AML.
Ignoring the choice interior scheme on the one I've seen on the net, I actually quite like it smile And it's far more in keeping with the brand than a body-kitted iQ!

If I were in charge of AM, I'd be fully leveraging the "Lagonda" brand and pushing cars like the Taraf. The 4x4 thing would go under that badge too (as would the Cygnet...though I'd never have been quite that mental to release it in the first place).

V8LM

5,166 posts

208 months

Friday 28th October 2016
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Didn't AML (Bez) sell off the brand for everything other than motor cars a number of years ago?

FFM

392 posts

100 months

Friday 28th October 2016
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVlXPmzwUAI

I don't see brand dilution here (i.e. it's not a Sunseeker with some Aston badges). Interesting comments from Harry at the end of the video about his view on Aston's future plans on motoryachts/boats

Ken Figenus

5,678 posts

116 months

Friday 28th October 2016
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TKP said:
Well, being German, I don't want to enter in a British forum into a comparison of the two automotive industries as they are today tongue out But as I drive an AML, I hope that I can be tolerated.

Regarding Porsche I assume you talk about some of these limited cars? 991 R? GT3 RS? Sport Classic? I think, to be fair, those "editions" are an issue with every brand; they never go on sale. Try to get an FXX... having EUR 1.5m is the smallest issue...
Kein Problem - wir verlieren! If my car wasn't English it would have to be German - well 2 are smile

Its a tricky area doing limited cars and telling people they cant have the 'top of the range' derivative and I freely admit some sour grapes but when you get told something is amazing and then go to buy one but just get told you can only have a lesser, far less revered model the schoolkid in you can (and did!) go 'keep it'! Also if I didn't have this mate that keeps banging on about how brilliant these blinkin GT3's are that might help too LOL biggrin