An offer you can't refuse ?
Discussion
Unaware, Steven? Keep up at the back.
Mind you, I had not realised that it was not his own businesses money at risk.
I wonder whether all those people saving for their pensions, and the college benefactors, really know what their money is being spent on?
I was very reassured that he has said, "The company is fully funded to continue for ever". No worries then about the £400 million bonds, that are repayable in 2018.
They describe the 2019 DBX as, 'somewhere between an offroader and a sports car'. Perhaps true, but somewhere could mean a very long way away from being a sports car.
I live in Cheshire, home of the upmarket 4x4. A 5 minute drive from my home to the shops will see quite literally dozens of Range Rovers, Cayennes & Macans, Q5 & 7s, Evoques, more recently Bentaygas & F-Paces, etc
Most are driven by women, short distances, on school & shopping runs. They aren't driven fast, the women can barely see over the steering wheels, they are parked poorly, they all have private plates, mostly in white but the rest in black, most are modded to some degree, many have dings in them and I can't believe more than a handful are driven in a sporty fashion or off road
The only thing that matters about DBX is whether that market like it and buy it. Speaking to a couple of people who have placed orders for F-Pace recently, they didn't even know if their car was 2WD or 4WD, petrol or diesel. All they cared about was colour and trim level.
Now of course some of the factors mentioned above will influence whether I or others on here buy one, but the most important thing is whether it sells on mass, because that helps create financial stability for the company we are mostly on here all huge fans of. AML can't afford another Rapide scenario where they committed production to a different facility, sales flopped and the financial burden ended up being one of several factors to cripple the company
As for whether it should be badged an Aston, to most of the target market, Lagonda is simply not very well known. The average man on the street doesn't know what AML stands for. There is definitely a place for one or more production or limited run 4/5 door cars wearing a Lagonda badge but for Aston's first forray into the SUV market, I can't imagine it makes sense to risk the target market being confused by a name they don't know in calling it Lagonda
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I can see why some of these things wouldn't be wanted in an ideal world that doesn't exist, but I don't see Porsche's 911, boxter or even 918 being harmed in image by the existence of their Macan & Cayenne and I see Aston's SUV in exactly the same light
Most are driven by women, short distances, on school & shopping runs. They aren't driven fast, the women can barely see over the steering wheels, they are parked poorly, they all have private plates, mostly in white but the rest in black, most are modded to some degree, many have dings in them and I can't believe more than a handful are driven in a sporty fashion or off road
The only thing that matters about DBX is whether that market like it and buy it. Speaking to a couple of people who have placed orders for F-Pace recently, they didn't even know if their car was 2WD or 4WD, petrol or diesel. All they cared about was colour and trim level.
Now of course some of the factors mentioned above will influence whether I or others on here buy one, but the most important thing is whether it sells on mass, because that helps create financial stability for the company we are mostly on here all huge fans of. AML can't afford another Rapide scenario where they committed production to a different facility, sales flopped and the financial burden ended up being one of several factors to cripple the company
As for whether it should be badged an Aston, to most of the target market, Lagonda is simply not very well known. The average man on the street doesn't know what AML stands for. There is definitely a place for one or more production or limited run 4/5 door cars wearing a Lagonda badge but for Aston's first forray into the SUV market, I can't imagine it makes sense to risk the target market being confused by a name they don't know in calling it Lagonda
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I can see why some of these things wouldn't be wanted in an ideal world that doesn't exist, but I don't see Porsche's 911, boxter or even 918 being harmed in image by the existence of their Macan & Cayenne and I see Aston's SUV in exactly the same light
Agreed.
The real purists (I count myself in that group)would rather it wasn't necessary & AML could continue doing what it currently does best, making achingly beautiful sports cars, however the financial reality is somewhat different. There's a sizeable market for high-end SUVs & if it secures the company's future then it has to be a good thing. I definitely shouldn't be Lagonda badged!
The real purists (I count myself in that group)would rather it wasn't necessary & AML could continue doing what it currently does best, making achingly beautiful sports cars, however the financial reality is somewhat different. There's a sizeable market for high-end SUVs & if it secures the company's future then it has to be a good thing. I definitely shouldn't be Lagonda badged!
Agreed.
The real purists (I count myself in that group)would rather it wasn't necessary & AML could continue doing what it currently does best, making achingly beautiful sports cars, however the financial reality is somewhat different. There's a sizeable market for high-end SUVs & if it secures the company's future then it has to be a good thing. It definitely shouldn't be Lagonda badged, just not enough recognition (read bragging rights!) amongst potential buyers
The real purists (I count myself in that group)would rather it wasn't necessary & AML could continue doing what it currently does best, making achingly beautiful sports cars, however the financial reality is somewhat different. There's a sizeable market for high-end SUVs & if it secures the company's future then it has to be a good thing. It definitely shouldn't be Lagonda badged, just not enough recognition (read bragging rights!) amongst potential buyers
HBradley said:
Agreed.
There's a sizeable market for high-end SUVs
Possibly.There's a sizeable market for high-end SUVs
But to "save" AML there will need to be a "range" of vehicles (to get the volumes required) starting at circa £50k and I can't see that happening.
Land Rover, Porsche, BMW and Audi have the market wrapped up and I don't see either Bentley, Maserati, AML or Jag making any headway into it.
All IMHO of course
AMDBSVNick said:
HBradley said:
Agreed.
There's a sizeable market for high-end SUVs
Possibly.There's a sizeable market for high-end SUVs
But to "save" AML there will need to be a "range" of vehicles (to get the volumes required) starting at circa £50k and I can't see that happening.
Land Rover, Porsche, BMW and Audi have the market wrapped up and I don't see either Bentley, Maserati, AML or Jag making any headway into it.
All IMHO of course
My concern would be that AM are trying to get into a market once its already very saturated with other brands. I'm just worried that AM are trying to get their piece of the pie in which everyone has already taken a slice. To complete with the likes of Range Rovers, Jaguar, BMWs etc is going to be very tough. Therefore the DBX has to appeal to a big audience in many many ways. I do hope it doesn't play out like what happened to the Rapide.....
AMDBSVNick said:
Possibly.
But to "save" AML there will need to be a "range" of vehicles (to get the volumes required) starting at circa £50k and I can't see that happening.
Land Rover, Porsche, BMW and Audi have the market wrapped up and I don't see either Bentley, Maserati, AML or Jag making any headway into it.
All IMHO of course
I agree with Nick regarding the range of vehicles starting at circa £50K and indeed made that comment on this forum a couple of years ago.But to "save" AML there will need to be a "range" of vehicles (to get the volumes required) starting at circa £50k and I can't see that happening.
Land Rover, Porsche, BMW and Audi have the market wrapped up and I don't see either Bentley, Maserati, AML or Jag making any headway into it.
All IMHO of course
However I'm surprised that he's put Jag into that category as their prices are fairly "mainstream".
AM will have to decide where they sit in the market,whether it be an expensive aspirational brand and therefore selling in limited number or a more mainstream affordable brand.
LR ,Porshe have managed to be both aspirational and fairly mainstream,with their pricing on some models,so it's obviously possible.
jonby said:
F-Pace will do brilliantly. Bentayga is doing brilliantly.
Then clearly this is regional as in these parts where there is also a few quid knocking about (its not unique to Cheshire) only one person at school has swapped to Bentayga. He has anything that is brand new and turns up each morning in his Lycra shorts. Nuff said.avinalarf said:
I agree with Nick regarding the range of vehicles starting at circa £50K and indeed made that comment on this forum a couple of years ago.
However I'm surprised that he's put Jag into that category as their prices are fairly "mainstream".
AM will have to decide where they sit in the market,whether it be an expensive aspirational brand and therefore selling in limited number or a more mainstream affordable brand.
LR ,Porshe have managed to be both aspirational and fairly mainstream,with their pricing on some models,so it's obviously possible.
I only threw Jag in as Jonby had mentioned it. I live not far from Gaydon so you can imagine how many JLR staff live around here with access to discounted product. A Jag of any description is a rare sight. LR product makes Ford look rare However I'm surprised that he's put Jag into that category as their prices are fairly "mainstream".
AM will have to decide where they sit in the market,whether it be an expensive aspirational brand and therefore selling in limited number or a more mainstream affordable brand.
LR ,Porshe have managed to be both aspirational and fairly mainstream,with their pricing on some models,so it's obviously possible.
The problem with this thread is that its so UK-centric.
Lets look at Porsche - 2/3rds of its 2015 sales were its SUVs - Macans (80k) and Cayennes (72k). And its single largest market? China followed distantly by the US. The UK is a passing afterthought
Why has Bentley developed an SUV? Its not because they see great sales potential in the UK (I'm sure if you told them they weren't allowed to sell it in the UK for some regulatory reason the response would be the equivalent of "we're not bothered"). They've developed it because the Chinese buyers of their saloon cars all tend to have a Cayenne too.
It's not a crowded market for these high end cars. The Chinese buy the Cayenne because its good and they recognise the brand. Bentley must be rubbing their hands. AML's problem is that brand recognition in China is relatively poor but good in the US. Lagonda would be non-existent in both countries (lets be honest its pretty non-existent in the UK!).
So will be very interesting to see where AML sells the DBX. But I'm guessing their two target markets are China first and the US second. The UK, will most likely end up being a very small share of sales
Lets look at Porsche - 2/3rds of its 2015 sales were its SUVs - Macans (80k) and Cayennes (72k). And its single largest market? China followed distantly by the US. The UK is a passing afterthought
Why has Bentley developed an SUV? Its not because they see great sales potential in the UK (I'm sure if you told them they weren't allowed to sell it in the UK for some regulatory reason the response would be the equivalent of "we're not bothered"). They've developed it because the Chinese buyers of their saloon cars all tend to have a Cayenne too.
It's not a crowded market for these high end cars. The Chinese buy the Cayenne because its good and they recognise the brand. Bentley must be rubbing their hands. AML's problem is that brand recognition in China is relatively poor but good in the US. Lagonda would be non-existent in both countries (lets be honest its pretty non-existent in the UK!).
So will be very interesting to see where AML sells the DBX. But I'm guessing their two target markets are China first and the US second. The UK, will most likely end up being a very small share of sales
RobDown said:
The problem with this thread is that its so UK-centric.
Lets look at Porsche - 2/3rds of its 2015 sales were its SUVs - Macans (80k) and Cayennes (72k). And its single largest market? China followed distantly by the US. The UK is a passing afterthought
Why has Bentley developed an SUV? Its not because they see great sales potential in the UK (I'm sure if you told them they weren't allowed to sell it in the UK for some regulatory reason the response would be the equivalent of "we're not bothered"). They've developed it because the Chinese buyers of their saloon cars all tend to have a Cayenne too.
It's not a crowded market for these high end cars. The Chinese buy the Cayenne because its good and they recognise the brand. Bentley must be rubbing their hands. AML's problem is that brand recognition in China is relatively poor but good in the US. Lagonda would be non-existent in both countries (lets be honest its pretty non-existent in the UK!).
So will be very interesting to see where AML sells the DBX. But I'm guessing their two target markets are China first and the US second. The UK, will most likely end up being a very small share of sales
Quite, blend that with Tesla buyers and maybe there is a market.Lets look at Porsche - 2/3rds of its 2015 sales were its SUVs - Macans (80k) and Cayennes (72k). And its single largest market? China followed distantly by the US. The UK is a passing afterthought
Why has Bentley developed an SUV? Its not because they see great sales potential in the UK (I'm sure if you told them they weren't allowed to sell it in the UK for some regulatory reason the response would be the equivalent of "we're not bothered"). They've developed it because the Chinese buyers of their saloon cars all tend to have a Cayenne too.
It's not a crowded market for these high end cars. The Chinese buy the Cayenne because its good and they recognise the brand. Bentley must be rubbing their hands. AML's problem is that brand recognition in China is relatively poor but good in the US. Lagonda would be non-existent in both countries (lets be honest its pretty non-existent in the UK!).
So will be very interesting to see where AML sells the DBX. But I'm guessing their two target markets are China first and the US second. The UK, will most likely end up being a very small share of sales
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