The new Vantage?
Discussion
Let’s try to not let this thread descend in to another “new Vantage” bashing one. There has been so much of that on here over the last few years and we really don’t need another! I know I mentioned the looks earlier on, but I tried to make it clear that opening up old wounds serves little purpose. The topic of this thread is regarding the “new new Vantage” (sorry, I can’t help myself 
), or whatever it may be called. I’m not a mod, so please feel free to ignore me if you wish though! 
BRM.
), or whatever it may be called. I’m not a mod, so please feel free to ignore me if you wish though! BRM. Having never found the prior Vantage particularly enticing and having bought one of the newfangled Andy Palmer ones, I am still excited to see the "upcoming Vantage". I've found all the more recent Aston's more to my liking than most of the older ones.
The lamenters on here can armchair direct the Aston operations, criticize strategy, financials, marketing, design...but in reality it's a one sided echo chamber since most of the 2nd Century owner's have moved on to other forums making this place a bit irrelevant.
This forum should stick to threads called "The old Vantage" since anything new( or different) isn't really the strength around here, Might have to change the forum name to "Aston Martin Nostalgia" from "Aston Martin", LOL.
The lamenters on here can armchair direct the Aston operations, criticize strategy, financials, marketing, design...but in reality it's a one sided echo chamber since most of the 2nd Century owner's have moved on to other forums making this place a bit irrelevant.
This forum should stick to threads called "The old Vantage" since anything new( or different) isn't really the strength around here, Might have to change the forum name to "Aston Martin Nostalgia" from "Aston Martin", LOL.
GreasyHands said:
I've found all the more recent Aston's more to my liking than most of the older ones.
That is good GH. Very pleased to hear that.
The puzzle to those of us who attempt to analyse Company progress, is why have the sales of the 2017 onward Vantage, been considerably fewer than the equivalent stages of the 2005 to 2018 model ?
The same also applied to the DB11 vs DB9.
Numbers do not lie, but the reasons are perhaps complex.
Can you help us to unravel this conundrum?
Some 2005 customers had to wait 2 years for delivery (refer to PH topics of the time, 'dealer cannot accept my order').
In 2017, AP said production was all sold out for next year. But then he offered the £1,000 + 23x £1,000 PCP givaway.
Jon39 said:
That is good GH. Very pleased to hear that.
The puzzle to those of us who attempt to analyse Company progress, is why have the sales of the 2017 onward Vantage, been considerably fewer than the equivalent stages of the 2005 to 2018 model ?
The same also applied to the DB11 vs DB9.
Numbers do not lie, but the reasons are perhaps complex.
Can you help us to unravel this conundrum?
Some 2005 customers had to wait 2 years for delivery (refer to PH topics of the time, 'dealer cannot accept my order').
In 2017, AP said production was all sold out for next year. But then he offered the £1,000 + 23x £1,000 PCP givaway.
Nbgring said:
A significant number of spy shots of the 2024 Aston Martin Vantage have been shot on the Nürburgring and published at youtube during the last two months.
I am quite convinced that the cars with the license plates KY23 MVH, KY23 MUA and KY23 MSV are the 2024 Aston Martin Vantage - the rear almost unchanged vs. the current Vantage and the front largely copied from the DB12. Tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 5S
You may check at CarSpyMedia - @carspymedia8960 - who published extensive material in premium quality.
Think if it looks like the spy shots with teh current style rear and side profile, much improved front with the grill lifted up from the splitter, and similar interior as the DB12, then will be fantastic. I am quite convinced that the cars with the license plates KY23 MVH, KY23 MUA and KY23 MSV are the 2024 Aston Martin Vantage - the rear almost unchanged vs. the current Vantage and the front largely copied from the DB12. Tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 5S
You may check at CarSpyMedia - @carspymedia8960 - who published extensive material in premium quality.
Jon39 said:
The puzzle to those of us who attempt to analyse Company progress, is why have the sales of the 2017 onward Vantage, been considerably fewer than the equivalent stages of the 2005 to 2018 model ?
Price?AstonV said:
Your boarding on hate speech
For the confused among you I think that means 'You're bordering on hate speech' 
flow99 said:
Nbgring said:
A significant number of spy shots of the 2024 Aston Martin Vantage have been shot on the Nürburgring and published at youtube during the last two months.
I am quite convinced that the cars with the license plates KY23 MVH, KY23 MUA and KY23 MSV are the 2024 Aston Martin Vantage - the rear almost unchanged vs. the current Vantage and the front largely copied from the DB12. Tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 5S
You may check at CarSpyMedia - @carspymedia8960 - who published extensive material in premium quality.
Think if it looks like the spy shots with teh current style rear and side profile, much improved front with the grill lifted up from the splitter, and similar interior as the DB12, then will be fantastic. I am quite convinced that the cars with the license plates KY23 MVH, KY23 MUA and KY23 MSV are the 2024 Aston Martin Vantage - the rear almost unchanged vs. the current Vantage and the front largely copied from the DB12. Tyres: Michelin Pilot Sport 5S
You may check at CarSpyMedia - @carspymedia8960 - who published extensive material in premium quality.
The consensus does seem to be new front end and interior, the AMG lump with the wick turned up a bit, and a fair whack higher asking price. No doubt all sorts of other minor tweaks presented as ‘all new’ ie as amusingly pointed out by Jon, new suspension bushes. Such outrageous marketing-led claims by OEM are nothing new, like all the others AML have always done it. Stroll is just pushing the envelope a little more, that’s all. It’s a tough market. Can’t blame them. If anything AP and team should have shouted far more loudly about the technical achievements of the DB11 and 2018-on Vantage (the old ‘new’ Vantage). But he didn’t, and now most of those achievements (esp the DBX) are being ‘claimed’ as all new by a much more masterful media manipulator.
The ‘new’ car with a ‘prettier’ front and new dash should do OK notwithstanding unexpected external factors and events (ie the economic catastrophe of 2008 or the pandemic of 2020 which respectively, greatly contributed to blighting the plans of Dave Richards and AP)
Sorry for Speedraiser but as I wrote some months ago, the era of the AM engine in the accessible cars is gone. The only positive is that it looks like AM will continue to offer AP and AM’s wonderful twin turbo V12 (built in tiny quantities in UK, by Cosworth) in future limited edition, million dollar plus, ultra (can I still use that word?) high end specials. It will of course be rebranded as an all new engine, delivered of course by Mr Stroll.
On the new new Vantage or whatever it will be called, my only concern is on product crossover, always a bit of a challenge for AML as all the products crowd into that little ‘Aston niche’ between Ferrari et al on the one side and Bentley et al on the other.
If the DB12 is as quick and sharp as the journos are saying it is, and is V8 powered and ticks so many more of the sports boxes, it leaves less space for the new new Vantage. How can AM differentiate the new car? Same engine, similar price it looks like, same interior. It’s going to have to have less power than DB12 so is likely going to be little quicker or ‘sportier’ on track?
It’s why I suggest that lightness and a slightly cheaper option with a 6-cyl engine might be the way to do it.
Notwithstanding development costs, were it I deciding,
the new new Vantage would be launched with a six, the same power but considerably lighter than the previous V8 engined car, pitched more at the well heeled ex Lotus owner, and a later S or RS super hot version coming along a bit later with the same V8 as the DB12. A similar strategy to what was successful in 2004 to 2009.
Edited by Calinours on Friday 11th August 10:38
Calinours said:
It’s why I suggest that lightness and a slightly cheaper option with a 6-cyl engine might be the way to do it.
The 4 litre V8 engine has a stated dry weight of 461 Pounds.
I cannot find a weight figure for the 3 litre In-line Six, but as well as being a longer engine, I would not think it would be much lighter.
For most installations, it has a 48 volt mild hybrid electric motor/generator (no drive belts, or certain anciliaries) so plus and minus weight adjustments there.
Simpo Two said:
Jon39 said:
The puzzle to those of us who attempt to analyse Company progress, is why have the sales of the 2017 onward Vantage, been considerably fewer than the equivalent stages of the 2005 to 2018 model ?
Price?Agreed the answers are complex and, well, not even relevant to my ownership experience. But maybe one reason is people saw that the much loved "old Vantage" (soon to be the "old, old Vantage" and and DB9) depreciated like my used underwear when Porsche and Ferrari hold their values better. I'm just throwing that out there, i.e. you might as well be asking why do the "pinnacle" ( at least to some around here) Aston generate have so little interest as 2nd hand cars. ( This is obvious as proven by the depreciation...using Pistonheads logic)
I could go on that Ferrari has a seven year warranty, maybe that helps resale...which helps new sales. I could come up with probably half a dozen speculative reasons but I guess I don't hang out on car forums to discuss value. I'm more into DIY and mods, and some funny stuff like Stroll's suits.
I originally came here a couple years ago because I got sidetracked from the Triumph section. Back then I had to read so much whining from previous generation Aston owners it was a bit hard to stomach. ( par for the course among car enthusiasts). Still seems to be happening quite a bit around here. People have trouble moving on. It's more group therapy and confirmation bias around here than car enthusiasm.
Anyway, I've discovered other places to talk about Astons where people seem a bit more balanced, at least until the next generation arrives, LOL. I know i'm barking up the wrong tree here. Probably just a last rant before I find another place to get my entertainment.
Edited by GreasyHands on Friday 11th August 20:20
GreasyHands said:
Simpo Two said:
Jon39 said:
The puzzle to those of us who attempt to analyse Company progress, is why have the sales of the 2017 onward Vantage, been considerably fewer than the equivalent stages of the 2005 to 2018 model ?
Price?Agreed the answers are complex and, well, not even relevant to my ownership experience. But maybe one reason is people saw that the much loved "old Vantage" (soon to be the "old, old Vantage" and and DB9) depreciated like my used underwear when Porsche and Ferrari hold their values better. I'm just throwing that out there, i.e. you might as well be asking why do the "pinnacle" ( at least to some around here) Aston generate have so little interest as 2nd hand cars. ( This is obvious as proven by the depreciation...using Pistonheads logic)
I could go on that Ferrari has a seven year warranty, maybe that helps resale...which helps new sales. I could come up with probably half a dozen speculative reasons but I guess I don't hang out on car forums to discuss value. I'm more into DIY and mods, and some funny stuff like Stroll's suits.
I originally came here a couple years ago because I got sidetracked from the Triumph section. Back then I had to read so much whining from previous generation Aston owners it was a bit hard to stomach. ( par for the course among car enthusiasts). Still seems to be happening quite a bit around here. People have trouble moving on. It's more group therapy and confirmation bias around here than car enthusiasm.
Anyway, I've discovered other places to talk about Astons where people seem a bit more balanced, at least until the next generation arrives, LOL. I know i'm barking up the wrong tree here. Probably just a last rant before I find another place to get my entertainment.
Edited by GreasyHands on Friday 11th August 20:20
I’ve had a look at most and don’t find any as good as PH. Also I don’t find that there is too much slating of the AP stuff and I have a DB11.
In fact I find it very balanced, with reasonable numbers of folks with DBX as well as the Newport Pagnell stuff. Sure most on here are AML fans due to the Bez era cars, given how successful they were, how well received and, critically they appeared in the middle what we all might end up remembering as a ‘golden era’ not just for AM, but for all ICE engined cars, roughly 1995 to 2015.
You bought your AP car because you liked it, as did I. I’m not bothered at all by what others think, and try to correct what I perceive to be any misconceptions. I’ve done an awful lot of defending of the DB11 and the AML AE31 V12 engine in particular. IMHO, it will soon only be found in stuff costing a million, so I’m absolutely hanging on to mine
Defend your choice to the hilt, you will only find a lot of agreement and only friendly banter on the slightly divisive looks. I suspect that very few will ever say it isn’t a much better car, despite the differing opinions of the dash and front end. Remember that there were always loads who criticised the older cars, the Russian doll thing you mention, the lack of oomph from the V8, the crappy sportshift, the dodgy finish and electrics, the ancient infotainment, the cringeworthy ‘power beauty soul’ and the silly, designed-to-break ‘emotion control unit’ that would cost a grand to replace. All valid criticisms but none stop me loving my 2011 car.
It’s great you are into DIY and modifications your ‘new’ Vantage, my perception has been that unlike the whiners on here with their previous gen n/a stuff, very few of the owners of the AP stuff do much in that respect. It seems that there’s little point as it’s just so good/quick from the factory. Now almost 6 years after launch and there seems little on offer from specialists beyond a reflash to up the boost. I’m sure loads would be interested to understand what have you done to it?
Jon39 said:
Calinours said:
It’s why I suggest that lightness and a slightly cheaper option with a 6-cyl engine might be the way to do it.
The 4 litre V8 engine has a stated dry weight of 461 Pounds.
I cannot find a weight figure for the 3 litre In-line Six, but as well as being a longer engine, I would not think it would be much lighter.
For most installations, it has a 48 volt mild hybrid electric motor/generator (no drive belts, or certain anciliaries) so plus and minus weight adjustments there.
This is likely pie in sky for AML who just don’t have the resources for major engineering projects like that, all we can realistically hope for right now with the ‘normal’ cars are facelifts and new interiors.
Edited by Calinours on Saturday 12th August 12:27
I’d say he has a point, the Aston devotees on here are not that open minded to criticism or accepting to Aston having any faults, many moved from TVR to aston and the TVR bunch sort of had the same issue, I could understand it around TVR more as they were price lead, Aston are not and they’re competitors are better in almost every area, unless you want to role play as bond
Kerniki said:
I’d say he has a point, the Aston devotees on here are not that open minded to criticism or accepting to Aston having any faults, many moved from TVR to aston and the TVR bunch sort of had the same issue, I could understand it around TVR more as they were price lead, Aston are not and they’re competitors are better in almost every area, unless you want to role play as bond
Maybe, but many more inc myself arrived via 911’s and the half that didn’t go back to Porkers or on to Bentleys (perhaps the more logical progression with age ) are all too aware of the shortfalls and deficiencies of the cars. The paint issues, dodgy electrics, lack of power of the early V8s, running costs and all sorts of other ‘character traits’ are discussed endlessly, as is the ‘mongrel’ nature of the Ford/PAG developed cars. Some are making an art form of the possibilities that arise from using otherwise identical Jag/Ford/Volvo bits or direct OEM supply of everything from sensors to brakes… Theres little dissent from anywhere in this forum to the fact that the ‘new’ Vantage is a far better, more resolved and quicker car. It also seems that the new version of the car, as with the DB12 is going to address the ‘whines’ head on.
When it gets launched I suspect that the only remaining gripes on PH are going to be the usual suspects (speedraiser and to a lesser degree myself) continuing to lament the death of the in house engine. Allow us our grumbles, for we are old men
Edited by Calinours on Saturday 12th August 12:45
Just had a thought while watching the JWW video on the Valour. It's stated that Valour is built on a (new) Vantage chassis that is longer and has a wider track. Given tight budgets and potential efficiencies, perhaps this is the chassis of the '24 refresh? There's also the 6spd manual box the engineers are so proud of developing for the Valour. I will continue to dream.
oilit said:
Aren't the chassis modular? eg the vanquish shooting brake is a front chassis bits from a vanquish, whereas the rear bits are from a Rapide.
If my memory is correct, then it may be some fun and games like that for the specials?
The current Vantage chassis is a cut down DB11 chassis effectively, mainly around the rear being reduced.If my memory is correct, then it may be some fun and games like that for the specials?
Even the ediff of the Vantage is the old Gallardo ediff, the same ediff is now in the DB12 effectively.
The DB12 progression area is around the stability/TC, dampers, new engine bits and the utilisation of updated Merc network plus a little impeovement on the chassis front. I expect that will be lifted into the Vantage.
Internally, and somewhat ironically, the DB12 is called the AM572 DB11 MCF! AM5 being the internal starting code for the DB11.
oilit said:
Aren't the chassis modular? eg the vanquish shooting brake is a front chassis bits from a vanquish, whereas the rear bits are from a Rapide.
If my memory is correct, then it may be some fun and games like that for the specials?
That was the case previously , and I wouldn't doubt it for the current cars. In the JWW vid, the engineer said the Valour chassis is longer than the current Vantage but longer than a DB11.If my memory is correct, then it may be some fun and games like that for the specials?
I’m quite a traditionalist too and didn’t like the New (nearly old now!) Vantage at launch.
It kind of grew on me with time.
But I’m quite looking forward to this new one as I think they will address everything I (and other moaners on here) didn’t like, mainly a new front with better proportioned headlights, the grill that will be set a bit higher and the interior.
I’ve sat in the DB12 and the interior is a lovely place, nicely integrated screen (decent size), a few buttons so that not every function needs to be operated through the screen, you feel cocooned.
The rear looked pretty good already so no need to change that too much.
And no the engine isn’t Aston but the V8 in my DBX707 is a peach of an engine.
I think the new new Vantage could prove a winner.
And we could hope for a limited edition V12 version, I know they said the previous one would be the last but with Aston there’s always a very last one after the last one!
It kind of grew on me with time.
But I’m quite looking forward to this new one as I think they will address everything I (and other moaners on here) didn’t like, mainly a new front with better proportioned headlights, the grill that will be set a bit higher and the interior.
I’ve sat in the DB12 and the interior is a lovely place, nicely integrated screen (decent size), a few buttons so that not every function needs to be operated through the screen, you feel cocooned.
The rear looked pretty good already so no need to change that too much.
And no the engine isn’t Aston but the V8 in my DBX707 is a peach of an engine.
I think the new new Vantage could prove a winner.
And we could hope for a limited edition V12 version, I know they said the previous one would be the last but with Aston there’s always a very last one after the last one!
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