The new Vantage?

[Beckson]

I would have no issue with a MB inline 6, at like 440 or so HP as long as it sounded good in the vantage. Hard no on the 4 pot, but by all accounts the "450/ 53 AMG" i6 is a nice engine. I've only driven one for 20 min in a GLE 450, but it was great with plenty of power. Hopefully it'd be 200lbs or so lighter than a 4.0 MB v8 but maybe in the real world it wouldn't save that much weight.

[Jon39]

volvodrummer said:

I haven't seen the official US base price, but I believe it was supposed to be in the ballpark of the $180k? Not that far off the inflation adjusted base price from 2006. I'm sure it will be very easy to spec' a Vantage over $200k

Curious to see some real listings or orders.

I have the impression, that AML seem to be fairly quiet about announcing the price.
Posters have indicated that the configurator does show prices and that option costs are increased.


On page 23.

nathwraith1 said:

The absolute cheapest spec I managed was £185k admittedly with carbon ceramic brakes but choosing the no cost paint, exterior and interior options.

There will be very few cars selling under £200k.

My real issue is not the price but the usage case. I’m a family man now so the days of driving two seaters around are few and far between to justify a £200k toy!

................. GBP ............................................................. USD (1.26)

Base cost £185,000 (with CCBs) ................................ $ 233,000

With some options £200,000 ...................................... $ 252,000

Need to subtract the CCB option cost (I don't know how much).


We won't properly understand the underlying sales figures for some time.
Every new model has the initial dealer stock and demonstrators boost, plus the early adopter customer demand.

The car is looking good, so bodes well.

[jonby]

I don't often comment in here these days, but I do look from time to time



Comparing DB12 and 2024 Vantage price/spec is very different to comparing DB9 with original V8 Vantage

In 2004/5, DB9 had a naturally aspirated V12 with 450bhp and 420 ib ft. It had a torque convertor auto and a low take-up manual option
In 2008, DB9 had a power boost to 470bhp and 443 ib ft, with the torque convertor auto (I think manual was dropped around then but may be misremembering)

In contrast, original Vantage had a 4.3 litre V8 with 380bhp and 302 ib ft. Gearboxes were manual or automated manual
In 2008, Vantage went up to a 4.7 litre V8 with 420bhp, 347 ib ft and effectively the same gearbox options as the 4.3

So the GT Aston had a V12 with more power, a lot more torque and a different gearbox to the smaller/sportier/cheaper Vantage

DB9 had a wheelbase of 2743 compared to 2601 for Vantage, so 142mm, or around 5% difference
Length was 4709 compared to 4382, so 327mm difference, or around 7.5%
Weight (very difficult to get like for like comparisons) but on wiki, 1760kg compared to 1610kg, so 150kg, almost 10% heavier

Both had 0-60 times in the mid 4s, Vantage had a slower top speed of around 180 compared to around 190 in DB9 (varies according to which version)

Turn the clock forward and compare 2024 Vantage with DB12
Both have the same gearbox
Both have the same engine. A turbo V8 with 671bhp in DB12 and 656bhp in Vantage, just 15bhp difference. Torque is identical at 590 ib ft
Wheel base is 2805 compared to 2705, so 100mm difference. Overall length 4725 compared to 4465, which is 260mm difference
Weight (again v difficult to get reliable like for like figures), but broadly speaking, the same. Wikipedia has vantage 15kg heavier than DB12 at 1700kg. Aston's website this morning has EU kerbweights of 1788 for DB12 and 1745 for Vantage


So instead of having a choice of a smaller, lighter, less powerful, different engine, different gearbox, much shorter wheelbase, we have two cars with nigh on identical power, torque and gearbox with essentially the same engine, with very similar weights. DB12 is larger, but the difference over Vantage is not as large as for their predecessors. Stated 0-60 and top speed for DB12 and Vantage are effectively the same (both have 202 top speed, officially DB12 0-60 3.6s, Vantage 3.5s)

Not only are the weights for DB12 and new Vantage similar, but DB12 is not much different in weight to original DB9 whereas new Vantage is 100+ kg heavier than the predecessor

I'm sure there are suspension differences, gearbox settings, maybe even power maps, but essentially DB12 and Vantage could be argued to be the same car, with one being slightly longer to accommodate a small rear seat. With the predecessors, if anything they looked more like each other (Vantage and DB9), but what was under the skin was really quite different. It didn't seem that different at the time, but compared to the latest offerings, it's easier to see the differentiations

Given how similar they are, if one was being logical (which is rarely the case), there's no reason DB12 should be much different in price to new Vantage

You could argue that new Vantage to DB12 is actually more like comparing DB9 to Rapide

Having said all that, as someone else pointed out, it's cost to change and residuals that will make or break real world sales more than any of the stuff above, especially one or two years post launch when it's no longer the latest thing.

PS sorry for the typos, especially all the ib instead of lb - not sure what happened !!!

Edited by jonby on Tuesday 20th February 10:02

Edited by jonby on Tuesday 20th February 10:07

[Calinours]

jonby said:

I don't often comment in here these days, but I do look from time to time



Comparing DB12 and 2024 Vantage price/spec is very different to comparing DB9 with original V8 Vantage

In 2004/5, DB9 had a naturally aspirated V12 with 450bhp and 420 ib ft. It had a torque convertor auto and a low take-up manual option
In 2008, DB9 had a power boost to 470bhp and 443 ib ft, with the torque convertor auto (I think manual was dropped around then but may be misremembering)

In contrast, original Vantage had a 4.3 litre V8 with 380bhp and 302 ib ft. Gearboxes were manual or automated manual
In 2008, Vantage went up to a 4.7 litre V8 with 420bhp, 347 ib ft and effectively the same gearbox options as the 4.3

So the GT Aston had a V12 with more power, a lot more torque and a different gearbox to the smaller/sportier/cheaper Vantage

DB9 had a wheelbase of 2743 compared to 2601 for Vantage, so 142mm, or around 5% difference
Length was 4709 compared to 4382, so 327mm difference, or around 7.5%
Weight (very difficult to get like for like comparisons) but on wiki, 1760kg compared to 1610kg, so 150kg, almost 10% heavier

Both had 0-60 times in the mid 4s, Vantage had a slower top speed of around 180 compared to around 190 in DB9 (varies according to which version)

Turn the clock forward and compare 2024 Vantage with DB12
Both have the same gearbox
Both have the same engine. A turbo V8 with 671bhp in DB12 and 656bhp in Vantage, just 15bhp difference. Torque is identical at 590 ib ft
Wheel base is 2805 compared to 2705, so 100mm difference. Overall length 4725 compared to 4465, which is 260mm difference
Weight (again v difficult to get reliable like for like figures), but broadly speaking, the same. Wikipedia has vantage 15kg heavier than DB12 at 1700kg. Aston's website this morning has EU kerbweights of 1788 for DB12 and 1745 for Vantage


So instead of having a choice of a smaller, lighter, less powerful, different engine, different gearbox, much shorter wheelbase, we have two cars with nigh on identical power, torque and gearbox with essentially the same engine, with very similar weights. DB12 is larger, but the difference over Vantage is not as large as for their predecessors. Stated 0-60 and top speed for DB12 and Vantage are effectively the same (both have 202 top speed, officially DB12 0-60 3.6s, Vantage 3.5s)

Not only are the weights for DB12 and new Vantage similar, but DB12 is not much different in weight to original DB9 whereas new Vantage is 100+ kg heavier than the predecessor

I'm sure there are suspension differences, gearbox settings, maybe even power maps, but essentially DB12 and Vantage could be argued to be the same car, with one being slightly longer to accommodate a small rear seat. With the predecessors, if anything they looked more like each other (Vantage and DB9), but what was under the skin was really quite different. It didn't seem that different at the time, but compared to the latest offerings, it's easier to see the differentiations

Given how similar they are, if one was being logical (which is rarely the case), there's no reason DB12 should be much different in price to new Vantage

You could argue that new Vantage to DB12 is actually more like comparing DB9 to Rapide

As the exact same V8 engined powertrain with a very minor (around 2%) power difference and a few suspension and dynamic tweaks and a similar marginal weight difference one could even argue DB12 to Vantage is more V8 Vantage to Vantage S

However the longer wheel base and longer body will absolutely make the bigger car feel, well… bigger, indeed if ‘bigger’ is even a word.

Another non-differentiation wasn’t mentioned, both cars now have a far closer interior than their immediate predecessors, though not than what went before those.

With the same powertrain and performance, It’s possible to imagine the company are counting on the significantly (for AM) different looks being enough to attract sufficiently different cohorts of buyers for the two new base offerings, then perhaps deviating again in the two directions (sport, GT) with the sexed-up stuff that is to come, as always.

It is hard to see how they would wring more power and dynamic ability from that new Vantage package - which makes me wonder if the plan is to go the Porsche GT3 RS route - a more extreme offering, a stripped out and much less weight hardcore version.

As for the halo version of the bigger car, well, I can still see a role for the V12, perhaps an uber luxury GT product a little more tilted toward Bentley.

If that’s the strategy then the company should be applauded. With these two AM have finally shown an ability to listen clearly to their customers and respond properly, which I’d venture is a first for Aston, a company more used to adopting the more arrogant early Henry Ford “if I’d listened to my customers I’d have built a horse” attitude.

Maybe, just maybe, the old silver fox is right on the money after all…

Edited by Calinours on Tuesday 20th February 11:53

[Jon39]

jonby said:

I don't often comment in here these days, but I do look from time to time

Comparing DB12 and 2024 Vantage price/spec is very different to comparing DB9 with original V8 Vantage

Good to see you back Jonby. Thanks for posting. Your posts are always interesting.

Yes, as you have described, the 2024 Vantage and DB12 are very similar technically.
I have not thought about it too much, but perhaps the 2018 Vantage and DB11 V8 also shared technical similarities.

As for appearance, the rear designs make the cars easy to distinguish, but will probably need to study some details before recognising from the front.

Thank goodness, that after 5 years, they have now made the Vantage front look Aston Martin again.
PHers other criticism of course, was the centre console muddle, and that is now looking very good.

The (supposedly) introductory 'baby' Vantage model, has a role to be the best seller, but I am sure the DB 12 might still be seen by customers as a big brother, even with the technical similarlties.

The continuous race amongst manufacturers for horsepower, seems now to have placed the Vantage in the lead. I find 400 or so, enough for practical road use (heavy traffic, speed limits etc.), but if 650 can sell more cars, then good on them.

[AlexT]

The new Vantage is now mixing with some proper supercars - some icons. Lambo Huracans, 911 Turbos and even Ferrari Romas are all around that list price.

We all can predict that AM isn't going to win on performance. Especially not straight line without a magic launch control setup.

It's gotta win on looks and luxury.

[AstonV]

Jon39 said:

................. GBP ............................................................. USD (1.26)

Base cost £185,000 (with CCBs) ................................ $ 233,000

With some options £200,000 ...................................... $ 252,000

Need to subtract the CCB option cost (I don't know how much).


We won't properly understand the underlying sales figures for some time.
Every new model has the initial dealer stock and demonstrators boost, plus the early adopter customer demand.

The car is looking good, so bodes well.

I have no idea of the cost yet, have not looked into it. But in the past the price in the US was somewhat less than a straight comparison of pounds to dollars. AM were discounted a bit compared to other markets.

Auto magazines are stating $190,000 base.

Edited by AstonV on Tuesday 20th February 17:33

[Jay_Davis]

The base price in my quote was $191k.

The option prices that I thought were a but much was the color I like is an extra $13,400 even though its one listed in the configurator (not custom), and the audio system is $10,000. Most of the rest of the options didn't seem particularly high priced (carbon fiber is high priced on everything by everyone, so, while high, not a surprise).

[AlexT]

You should see the Australian pricing and dealer delivery fees. Very, very high.

[Davil]

AlexT said:

You should see the Australian pricing and dealer delivery fees. Very, very high.

How much?

[AlexT]

Davil - RRP is $410k plus on roads. On roads would be stamp duty + dealer delivery (approx $25k).

CCBs are $26k. Note 911 Turbo CCBs are $20k are are 10-piston vs 6 for AM CCBs. The above-mentioned B&O sound system is $18k. Signature metallics are $12k.

The centre stack finisher in carbon fibre (which is simply made up for two small pieces of carbon fibre) is approx $8k, making the lower carbon fibre package at $22k seemingly good value.

Personally I feel these prices are excessive, especially if AM want to shift their 'volume' entry-level vehicle.

Hope this gives you an idea. And if you are negotiating let me know your success.

[franki68]

AlexT said:

The new Vantage is now mixing with some proper supercars - some icons. Lambo Huracans, 911 Turbos and even Ferrari Romas are all around that list price.

We all can predict that AM isn't going to win on performance. Especially not straight line without a magic launch control setup.

It's gotta win on looks and luxury.

It could be said it’s mixing it up with the db12 .

[nathwraith1]

Some pricing screenshots to help you. The paint cost is incorrect fyi, it should actually be £5,700.

Base is £165k, OTR charges are £6k.

Edited by nathwraith1 on Thursday 22 February 08:49

[nathwraith1]

If you keep the spec sensible ish you can get it much cheaper, but even this one comes out at £185K before OTR charges. Obviously you could save £10k and drop the CCBs.

[nathwraith1]

Finally I did an in between spec of keeping most of the no cost options but keeping the fancy AMR green and CCBs. As before the green cost should be less than shown but it hasn’t been updated on Aston’s side yet.



[url]

|https://thumbsnap.com/JDYM3GX2[/url]

[Jon39]

franki68 said:

It could be said it’s mixing it up with the db12 .

Looking at this another way, perhaps in the branding world of the Mr. Ultra-Stroll, the DB12 is an underpriced bargain.
We must never refer to it as discounted. No such word in the luxury Super GT business.
It is described as, 'a modern marvel of unapologetic presents'.

[LTP]

Jon39 said:

Looking at this another way, perhaps in the branding world of the Mr. Ultra-Stroll, the DB12 is an underpriced bargain.
We must never refer to it as discounted. No such word in the luxury Super GT business.
It is described as, 'a modern marvel of unapologetic presents'.

I'm sure I saw one of the AML seniors (Stroll?) say that the latest Vantage was no longer an "entry" car and would be priced accordingly. I believe they are now parallel cars, one a "Super Tourer" (or whatever guffology terminology) and the other a more hard-core sports car.

[Jon39]

Good to see so much Aston Martin DNA returning to this model, including the wheels.

nathwraith1 said:

I have noticed that Aston Martin have overlooked an extra revenue opportunity.

If you want your new Vantage to have the roof painted, there is no extra charge. -

[raceboy]

While it is certainly not only Aston that do it the prices that are charged for some options are comical.
Painting the brake calipers a different colour to 'standard' £1,300 there is no way painting them bronze instead of silver costs that much extra, smoked tail lights will be exactly the same price as red ones from the supplier so why charge the customer £950 extra.
The one that always got me was 'contrasting stitching' the seat covers are all hand made, the seamstress will just pick a different cotton reel from the box, the cotton isn't going to be a different value, why the massive extra.
Making 'stuff' out of Carbon Fibre I kind of get the extra, although it is nowhere near as expensive as the price of the extras, I guess the answer is 'because they can'

[nathwraith1]

raceboy said:

While it is certainly not only Aston that do it the prices that are charged for some options are comical.
Painting the brake calipers a different colour to 'standard' £1,300 there is no way painting them bronze instead of silver costs that much extra, smoked tail lights will be exactly the same price as red ones from the supplier so why charge the customer £950 extra.
The one that always got me was 'contrasting stitching' the seat covers are all hand made, the seamstress will just pick a different cotton reel from the box, the cotton isn't going to be a different value, why the massive extra.
Making 'stuff' out of Carbon Fibre I kind of get the extra, although it is nowhere near as expensive as the price of the extras, I guess the answer is 'because they can'

Yep this is what gets me too. Feel like they are having your pants down.