Discussion
Calinours said:
Jon39 said:
Speedraser said:
... Would a Ferrari be a Ferrari with someone else's engine or platform? Of course not. The thought of it is absurd.
An Aston Martin should be just as worthy of its own platform and its own engines.
An Aston Martin should be just as worthy of its own platform and its own engines.
I think you might have mentioned your opinion about engines at least once, or twice before.
I have only just realised, that I have been very slow to think of the following;
Are you particular about which aircraft you fly in?
I very much enjoy flying in an American Boeing, then seeing that British Rolls Royce engines are helping to keep the contraption in the air.
Please remind me, which aircraft manufacturers, use their own make of engines.
I came across another VAG Group pair of shared cars.
The mechanical basis of their VW ID4 battery car is used in other Group cars.
If the VW ID4 is not expensive enough for you, then spend another £10,000 to have the mechanically identical Audi Q4 e-tron. -
Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 27th March 16:39
Jon, I have, but it's been a while
More to the point, the DB12 and the newest Vantage make the whole thing fresh again, especially as there is no Aston Martin engine available anymore. I could not possibly care less who makes the engines, or anything else, on the airliner (or train, or bus) I'm in. The ONLY thing that matters is that it gets me where I'm going in one piece. Aston Martins are about so much more than just getting from A to B! Calinours said:
You can’t compare humdrum workhorse civilian commercial jet aircraft to top end sports cars Jon.
That was not the point though, Calinours.
Do you think there is anyone left in the World, who might still be unaware of Speedraser's crusade about Aston Martin using other manufacturers engines? The message has been on continuous loop, since the introduction of the Vantage in November 2017.
Perhaps akin to a calling, except even the Pope would not take it that seriously.
Hold on though, I think I might have just had a spiritual vision. Thought I saw a Lamborghini in papal colours, being blessed by the Pope.
No, that would be too ridiculous. What next, Sir Wonga Welby blessing an Aston Martin?
Jon39 said:
Are you particular about which aircraft you fly in?
I very much enjoy flying in an American Boeing, then seeing that British Rolls Royce engines are helping to keep the contraption in the air.
Please remind me, which aircraft manufacturers, use their own make of engines.
Perhaps you are unaware that aircraft manufacturers are not allowed to manufacture their own engines, as they once did long ago. United Aircraft back in the 30s did it all. They owned United Airlines, Boeing, and P&W. They made the engines, installed them in their own aircraft, and then flew passengers around the country. The US government broke them up and to this day airlines are not allowed to manufacture planes or engines. I very much enjoy flying in an American Boeing, then seeing that British Rolls Royce engines are helping to keep the contraption in the air.
Please remind me, which aircraft manufacturers, use their own make of engines.
Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 27th March 16:39
Speedraser said:
Zio Di Roma said:
All of which is very romantic. But I don't think Rolls Royce and Bentley would exist were it not for shared platforms. I don't think Aston will survive unless it learns how to share.
Cars at this level are supposed to be romantic!It's a near certainty that R-R and Bentley are more profitable due to shared platforms -- which is a very different thing than not existing.
I have not been a student of Aston's recent history, but a cursory observation is that they have lurched from one financial crisis to the next. They already use components from other marques. Ferrari they are not.
If you think they should be a Ferrari, with everything produced in-house, how do you anticipate that they will get to that point financially? Who will be the customers?
DB9VolanteDriver said:
Perhaps you are unaware that aircraft manufacturers are not allowed to manufacture their own engines, as they once did long ago. United Aircraft back in the 30s did it all. They owned United Airlines, Boeing, and P&W. They made the engines, installed them in their own aircraft, and then flew passengers around the country. The US government broke them up and to this day airlines are not allowed to manufacture planes or engines.
Thank you Steve. Interesting.
We are way off topic, but I did wonder whether everything might have been manufactured in-house many years ago.
As it was the US government who intervened, perhaps that had something to do with safety.
Zio Di Roma said:
I have not been a student of Aston's recent history, but a cursory observation is that they have lurched from one financial crisis to the next. They already use components from other marques. Ferrari they are not.
If you think they should be a Ferrari, with everything produced in-house, how do you anticipate that they will get to that point financially? Who will be the customers?
If you think they should be a Ferrari, with everything produced in-house, how do you anticipate that they will get to that point financially? Who will be the customers?
Exactly right Zio.
If you are interested in an at-a-glance summary of Aston Martin history, my topic may help;
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The same pattern of famine and survival has persisted since formation in 1913.
It is however wonderful, that such enormous passion was been created along the way, so that there has never been any shortage of financial saviours. Can you think of any other business that has survived for 110 years, having almost never made any profit?
Since the stock market flotation, indiividual or corporate saviours have been replaced by the shareholders, who have regularly been providing the capital required.
I expect Speedraser knows, that the very first Aston Martin car, did not have an Aston Martin engine.
In fact neither did it have an Aston Martin chassis, but when Bamford & Martin Limited built that car, they named it Aston Martin.
I fully understand where Speedraser is coming from and whilst I do not disagree with many of the points he raises, much of this is down to the individual. I certainly had no problem buying a Jenson Healey even though it came with a Lotus engine; I always wanted a TVR despite the people in the pub telling me it had a beefed-up Rover 3.5 V8 under the bonnet. Most of the DBX707 buyers won't know what's powering it to 60mph in 3.3 secs - not sure if many of them care. All they know is that they have an Aston parked outside. Pretty sure this applies to those high net individuals who buy new Bentleys and Rollers too. However, this doesn't mean Speedraser is wrong.
SL500UK said:
I fully understand where Speedraser is coming from and whilst I do not disagree with many of the points he raises, much of this is down to the individual. I certainly had no problem buying a Jenson Healey even though it came with a Lotus engine; I always wanted a TVR despite the people in the pub telling me it had a beefed-up Rover 3.5 V8 under the bonnet. Most of the DBX707 buyers won't know what's powering it to 60mph in 3.3 secs - not sure if many of them care. All they know is that they have an Aston parked outside. Pretty sure this applies to those high net individuals who buy new Bentleys and Rollers too. However, this doesn't mean Speedraser is wrong.
I too understand where Speedraser is coming from. However, in today's regulatory environment the choice really seems to be: Either a small manufacturer like Aston use/team with another manufacturer for drive train components, or cease to exist altogether. Ferrari is the only smaller independent manufacturer that has it's unique drive trains. I am no expert, but I believe that the current crop of Ferrari engines are based on designs developed when they still had the deep pockets of Fiat. I hope that Aston can keep their unique V12 commercial as long as possible, but the reality is that at some point it too will end. Unfortunately, when the time came to renew Aston's V8, the changes needed for compliance were financially untenable. Simply pulling the AMG 4 liter and plugging it into an Aston I too found unacceptable. Their more recent crop of the 4 liters, made unique to the Aston models, DBX707, DB12 and new Vantage are different enough to generate my interest. Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff