Aston Martin advice from Bamford Rose independent specialist
Discussion
JPF40 said:
DBS oil question.
I have a 2009 DBS, its appears overfilled by what looks like 0.5-1 litre after its recent service (AM dealer says the level is correct because they measure the exact amount), but is this because I have a long dipstick or did the DBS have the correct dipstick from the word go?
Its confusing because I dont know what level I should check for !
Very interesting question, as already answered DBS has 'normal' dipstick. The question is interesting because the reason for the short dipstick being introduced on '9 in the first place, IMHO, is still present DBS.I have a 2009 DBS, its appears overfilled by what looks like 0.5-1 litre after its recent service (AM dealer says the level is correct because they measure the exact amount), but is this because I have a long dipstick or did the DBS have the correct dipstick from the word go?
Its confusing because I dont know what level I should check for !
DB9 / V12 engine was originally 10.5L maximum mark on stick and 8.5L minimum mark on stick. As we know, if oil consumption for whatever the reason was reported during 3 year maker warranty period the fix was to fit a shorter stick which allowed just over 12L maximum / just over 10L minimum. If run low to about 6L and taken on a motorway cruise, the engine would likely destroy itself, so there being a)no electronic warning to alert driver to low level b)only(!!) 6L oil volume from a happy engine to a destroyed engine and c) high cost to repair, the short dipstick was introduced as sticking plaster fix.
Experience of rebuilding approx. 2 V12 engines per month due to tick / rattle / whatever the failure, over the last few years informs that root cause is normally a low oil level at some point in the engines history. The reason for that consumption is normally a failed breather circuit system which allows the engine to consume its own oil as part of normal breather gas flow. The interesting part of this discussion is that the breather circuit on DBS is same as the parts which fail on older DB9, so DBS oil level at 10.5L is just as a concern regarding the potential for the engine to reach a damagingly low oil level as DB9 was / is - I guess DBS being later model and time being the root cause of breather circuit failure means the problem is not as widespread yet on DBS, but, last week we changed the breather circuit on a DBS for the first time, and back end of last year we had to replace the breather circuit on £400k's worth of V12 Zag which has done 7k miles.
DB9 short dipstick is suffix AC part number
DB9 long dipstick suffix AB
DBS dipstick prefix 8D (as opposed DB9 prefix 4G)
A DBS dipsick for 10.5L max lined up next to DB9 long dipstick at 10.5L max will not share same dipstick length / dimensions because the DBS sump is wider to allow the 10.5L to sit lower level in the sump pan - hence part of the reason (less parasitic loss) why the 510 motor has more power over a 450 BHP - it was not all combustion related gains.
In reality the over fill you have will not cause any issue because the V12 engine with the short dipstick ran happily in DB9 at just over 12L, and assuming a 1L overfill you will be 11.5L worst case, its just that your motor friction will be a tad higher and your engine produce at tad less power.
To set the perfect level we fill with about 10L to get to minimum, crank for pressure and run the engine momentarily. The when cold / settled we check the stick and by experience know how much to put in to return exactly maximum. Probably what happened in your case is that with full filter? someone filled regardless with 10.5L. But I wouldn't get overly concerned even though it is not as precise as you would want your service care to be, and as it should have been.
BamfordMike said:
Very interesting question, as already answered DBS has 'normal' dipstick. The question is interesting because the reason for the short dipstick being introduced on '9 in the first place, IMHO, is still present DBS.
DB9 / V12 engine was originally 10.5L maximum mark on stick and 8.5L minimum mark on stick. As we know, if oil consumption for whatever the reason was reported during 3 year maker warranty period the fix was to fit a shorter stick which allowed just over 12L maximum / just over 10L minimum. If run low to about 6L and taken on a motorway cruise, the engine would likely destroy itself, so there being a)no electronic warning to alert driver to low level b)only(!!) 6L oil volume from a happy engine to a destroyed engine and c) high cost to repair, the short dipstick was introduced as sticking plaster fix.
Experience of rebuilding approx. 2 V12 engines per month due to tick / rattle / whatever the failure, over the last few years informs that root cause is normally a low oil level at some point in the engines history. The reason for that consumption is normally a failed breather circuit system which allows the engine to consume its own oil as part of normal breather gas flow. The interesting part of this discussion is that the breather circuit on DBS is same as the parts which fail on older DB9, so DBS oil level at 10.5L is just as a concern regarding the potential for the engine to reach a damagingly low oil level as DB9 was / is - I guess DBS being later model and time being the root cause of breather circuit failure means the problem is not as widespread yet on DBS, but, last week we changed the breather circuit on a DBS for the first time, and back end of last year we had to replace the breather circuit on £400k's worth of V12 Zag which has done 7k miles.
DB9 short dipstick is suffix AC part number
DB9 long dipstick suffix AB
DBS dipstick prefix 8D (as opposed DB9 prefix 4G)
A DBS dipsick for 10.5L max lined up next to DB9 long dipstick at 10.5L max will not share same dipstick length / dimensions because the DBS sump is wider to allow the 10.5L to sit lower level in the sump pan - hence part of the reason (less parasitic loss) why the 510 motor has more power over a 450 BHP - it was not all combustion related gains.
In reality the over fill you have will not cause any issue because the V12 engine with the short dipstick ran happily in DB9 at just over 12L, and assuming a 1L overfill you will be 11.5L worst case, its just that your motor friction will be a tad higher and your engine produce at tad less power.
To set the perfect level we fill with about 10L to get to minimum, crank for pressure and run the engine momentarily. The when cold / settled we check the stick and by experience know how much to put in to return exactly maximum. Probably what happened in your case is that with full filter? someone filled regardless with 10.5L. But I wouldn't get overly concerned even though it is not as precise as you would want your service care to be, and as it should have been.
Makes sense and I guess is why the Aston dealer was clear that it would be perfectly fine, sounds like it's worth thinking about replacing the breather circuit for insurance then, what's the cost of replacing?DB9 / V12 engine was originally 10.5L maximum mark on stick and 8.5L minimum mark on stick. As we know, if oil consumption for whatever the reason was reported during 3 year maker warranty period the fix was to fit a shorter stick which allowed just over 12L maximum / just over 10L minimum. If run low to about 6L and taken on a motorway cruise, the engine would likely destroy itself, so there being a)no electronic warning to alert driver to low level b)only(!!) 6L oil volume from a happy engine to a destroyed engine and c) high cost to repair, the short dipstick was introduced as sticking plaster fix.
Experience of rebuilding approx. 2 V12 engines per month due to tick / rattle / whatever the failure, over the last few years informs that root cause is normally a low oil level at some point in the engines history. The reason for that consumption is normally a failed breather circuit system which allows the engine to consume its own oil as part of normal breather gas flow. The interesting part of this discussion is that the breather circuit on DBS is same as the parts which fail on older DB9, so DBS oil level at 10.5L is just as a concern regarding the potential for the engine to reach a damagingly low oil level as DB9 was / is - I guess DBS being later model and time being the root cause of breather circuit failure means the problem is not as widespread yet on DBS, but, last week we changed the breather circuit on a DBS for the first time, and back end of last year we had to replace the breather circuit on £400k's worth of V12 Zag which has done 7k miles.
DB9 short dipstick is suffix AC part number
DB9 long dipstick suffix AB
DBS dipstick prefix 8D (as opposed DB9 prefix 4G)
A DBS dipsick for 10.5L max lined up next to DB9 long dipstick at 10.5L max will not share same dipstick length / dimensions because the DBS sump is wider to allow the 10.5L to sit lower level in the sump pan - hence part of the reason (less parasitic loss) why the 510 motor has more power over a 450 BHP - it was not all combustion related gains.
In reality the over fill you have will not cause any issue because the V12 engine with the short dipstick ran happily in DB9 at just over 12L, and assuming a 1L overfill you will be 11.5L worst case, its just that your motor friction will be a tad higher and your engine produce at tad less power.
To set the perfect level we fill with about 10L to get to minimum, crank for pressure and run the engine momentarily. The when cold / settled we check the stick and by experience know how much to put in to return exactly maximum. Probably what happened in your case is that with full filter? someone filled regardless with 10.5L. But I wouldn't get overly concerned even though it is not as precise as you would want your service care to be, and as it should have been.
JPF40 said:
Makes sense and I guess is why the Aston dealer was clear that it would be perfectly fine, sounds like it's worth thinking about replacing the breather circuit for insurance then, what's the cost of replacing?
Peanuts compared to the value of your car which is why I didn't hesitate 
I think the non return PCV valves can fail in the breathing system and this can cause the engine to consume its own oil through the induction system, and 'oil' the air filters too. Mine uses about .6L in about 6000 miles (which is nothing) but as I don't get to see the old air filters I don't know if its PCV related or just normal use. I so like chatting to the hands on man when possible...
What do V12's typically use? Thank goodness its not an '2 stroke' M5 which can be 1L:1000 miles
What do V12's typically use? Thank goodness its not an '2 stroke' M5 which can be 1L:1000 miles
JPF40 said:
Makes sense and I guess is why the Aston dealer was clear that it would be perfectly fine, sounds like it's worth thinking about replacing the breather circuit for insurance then, what's the cost of replacing?
The tel-tale sign the breather system is compromised is oily wet air filters because some of the oil instead of going into throttle / inlet manifold, due to gravity, drops into airbox - so at service black air filters are found. The next sign is a whiff of blue smoke on start up. Even at this error state i believe oil consumption is less than 1L per 1000 miles which is considered industry standard maximum, the problem is no oil level sensing hardware combined with not checking oil across, say 5k miles. There is no need for a preventative maintenance fix, you just need to be told at service the condition of air filters, but you would be surprised the amount of folk who work on cars who dont know the significance of that.I was once asked what problems do BR solve for customers they dont know, the answer works backwards from this. We were told by dealer we were the only client consuming a ton of breather circuits, few else do. Why he asked? I outlined the events we have discussed here as reason why. At an average rate of 2 V12 rebuilds a month, who's cars are they that need engine rebuild? Answer is never a prior customer of BR. What problems we solve customers dont know about then? is the potential of failed engine, i have this very conversation with all V12 owners on collection.
you should be fine checking oil level, say, every first Sunday or every 2k miles as minimum, and if you notice a blue haze out of exhaust after cold start, these two checks will keep you safe, if you then measure oil consumption at >0.5L per 1k miles, you know something might be a problem
BamfordMike said:
The tel-tale sign the breather system is compromised is oily wet air filters because some of the oil instead of going into throttle / inlet manifold, due to gravity, drops into airbox - so at service black air filters are found. The next sign is a whiff of blue smoke on start up. Even at this error state i believe oil consumption is less than 1L per 1000 miles which is considered industry standard maximum, the problem is no oil level sensing hardware combined with not checking oil across, say 5k miles. There is no need for a preventative maintenance fix, you just need to be told at service the condition of air filters, but you would be surprised the amount of folk who work on cars who dont know the significance of that.
I was once asked what problems do BR solve for customers they dont know, the answer works backwards from this. We were told by dealer we were the only client consuming a ton of breather circuits, few else do. Why he asked? I outlined the events we have discussed here as reason why. At an average rate of 2 V12 rebuilds a month, who's cars are they that need engine rebuild? Answer is never a prior customer of BR. What problems we solve customers dont know about then? is the potential of failed engine, i have this very conversation with all V12 owners on collection.
you should be fine checking oil level, say, every first Sunday or every 2k miles as minimum, and if you notice a blue haze out of exhaust after cold start, these two checks will keep you safe, if you then measure oil consumption at >0.5L per 1k miles, you know something might be a problem
Great advice! I'm unlikely to do much more than 2,000 miles a year. The only other thing I'm unsure about is the sound the engine makes after lifting off the tootle at sy around 5,000 rpm. Sounds course if that makes sense?I was once asked what problems do BR solve for customers they dont know, the answer works backwards from this. We were told by dealer we were the only client consuming a ton of breather circuits, few else do. Why he asked? I outlined the events we have discussed here as reason why. At an average rate of 2 V12 rebuilds a month, who's cars are they that need engine rebuild? Answer is never a prior customer of BR. What problems we solve customers dont know about then? is the potential of failed engine, i have this very conversation with all V12 owners on collection.
you should be fine checking oil level, say, every first Sunday or every 2k miles as minimum, and if you notice a blue haze out of exhaust after cold start, these two checks will keep you safe, if you then measure oil consumption at >0.5L per 1k miles, you know something might be a problem
JPF40 said:
Great advice! I'm unlikely to do much more than 2,000 miles a year. The only other thing I'm unsure about is the sound the engine makes after lifting off the tootle at sy around 5,000 rpm. Sounds course if that makes sense?
The V12 engine does have a fair amount of what i would term mechanical thrash. Is entirely normal sort of sounds most engines make, just that this particular frequency / sound is a bit louder than some others and those sounds not totally damped by acoustic sound deadening. As well as lift off, a critical ear will hear same sort of mechanical thrash around 2500 / 3000 rpm slightly on load and off load.so long as no ticks / rattles at idle and so long as <0.5L per 1000 miles and so long as regular oil checks, i wouldn't get overly worried about anything and leave the checks to your service agent at each interval which will be sufficient interval to detect and solve problems before they turn more serious. Knowing the important stuff relax and enjoy car
DB9VolanteDriver said:
DBS does have an oil level sensing system. Hopefully it alerts you soon enough? Would hate to find out the hard way. I'd rather rely on a weekly dipstick check for peace of mind.
you are partly correct in that on early cars the hardware is present. I stand to be corrected but it is my understanding that in early cars although hardware to electronically sense oil level is present, its not actually enabled in software. I say this because I have first hand experience of a failed engine due to low oil level but no warning came on the dash. Perhaps it was too tricky for the boffins to calibrate the system????? or some other fundamental reason meant that whilst cars have the hardware the software doesn't enable it, who knows!!before anyone asks i cant state a vin that the software seemed to be enabled either. A dealer might be able to tell via a vin number check and discussion with factory. It is also possible to tell be booking up AMDS and trying to datalig oil level sensing parameters, on early cars it all seems to be dead.
BamfordMike said:
The V12 engine does have a fair amount of what i would term mechanical thrash. Is entirely normal sort of sounds most engines make, just that this particular frequency / sound is a bit louder than some others and those sounds not totally damped by acoustic sound deadening. As well as lift off, a critical ear will hear same sort of mechanical thrash around 2500 / 3000 rpm slightly on load and off load.
so long as no ticks / rattles at idle and so long as <0.5L per 1000 miles and so long as regular oil checks, i wouldn't get overly worried about anything and leave the checks to your service agent at each interval which will be sufficient interval to detect and solve problems before they turn more serious. Knowing the important stuff relax and enjoy car
Runs super smooth on tick over, just thrashy on lift off through down shifts/heel toe. Lovely car, I'll certainly enjoy it. Thanks for the advice, it's really appreciated.so long as no ticks / rattles at idle and so long as <0.5L per 1000 miles and so long as regular oil checks, i wouldn't get overly worried about anything and leave the checks to your service agent at each interval which will be sufficient interval to detect and solve problems before they turn more serious. Knowing the important stuff relax and enjoy car
BamfordMike said:
DB9VolanteDriver said:
DBS does have an oil level sensing system. Hopefully it alerts you soon enough? Would hate to find out the hard way. I'd rather rely on a weekly dipstick check for peace of mind.
you are partly correct in that on early cars the hardware is present. I stand to be corrected but it is my understanding that in early cars although hardware to electronically sense oil level is present, its not actually enabled in software. I say this because I have first hand experience of a failed engine due to low oil level but no warning came on the dash. Perhaps it was too tricky for the boffins to calibrate the system????? or some other fundamental reason meant that whilst cars have the hardware the software doesn't enable it, who knows!!before anyone asks i cant state a vin that the software seemed to be enabled either. A dealer might be able to tell via a vin number check and discussion with factory. It is also possible to tell be booking up AMDS and trying to datalig oil level sensing parameters, on early cars it all seems to be dead.
Mike, you used to service my V12V carbon black, which I sold and I now have a V12VS which will be coming to you in June for first year's service.
My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Momentum 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Momentum 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
Edited by CraigV12V on Wednesday 6th April 12:17
DB9VolanteDriver said:
On DBS, from #160 onwards the hardware is installed, and for DB9 from #10678 onwards. Software was ready for reflash as of Oct 2010.
Based on the fact we see '04 / '05 DB9 in '16 with the software originally flashed at production build, yet there have been numerous updates to return better behaviour in many respects (idle control, driveability), the software was not obligatory to take. Likewise there will be a significant number of V12's without software update to enable oil level sensing hardware out there. A part of inspection at service is software status / can any updates be made? yet its eye opening the number of cars inside or outside franchised network where clearly a software check is not happening as part of service regime (lack of knowledge / understanding?).We had a V12V engine to rebuild shipped from Canada late last year, cause was failed engine from low oil level. An oil level sensor was proudly sitting in sump, but the ECU which was sent for update didn't talk to the sensor (imagine being that owner on understanding that info!). To say an update exists doesn't mean it will find its way into all cars unless the update was mandatory and the only way that can stand a chance of working is via recall.
CraigV12V said:
Mike, you used to service my V12V carbon black, which I sold and I now have a V12VS which will be coming to you in June for first year's service.
My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Millennium 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
Hi Craig!My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Millennium 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
The Tesco tanker will fill up from the same outlet as BP tanker so like for like the Octane rating will be similar despite what the sticker on the pump suggests the octane rating might be (they have tolerances!). The V12 engine might crank on 1 or 2 degree spark for higher octane fuel?? But at approx. 3BHP per 1 degree spark increase will anybody feel even 6BHP in 565? The debate then, as you state, is all about the detergents each fuel company mixes with the fuel they all extract from the same dispenser, and i dont believe there is any hard data out there to prove / disprove any comments that marketing make. BP's latest marketing campaign is a school of Piranhas chomping their way through carbon in an engine making us think their detergents are the best, but where indeed is the data to prove this? Quite ironic that the Piranhas are chomping carbon from the inside of an engine, they are clearly desperately hungry after hoovering up oil slicks previously leaked into the worlds oceans!
Considering the marginable power gain, if it were me i would not chase the ultimate highest octane and fill with the best 97/99 - Shell optimax or BP ultimate
A member of our car club in Sydney has a 2000 DB7 Vantage. The car suddenly stopped the other day. The fault code show was PO350- Ignition coil primary malfunction. Does anyone know a company which can check and repair the Power Train control module.She is happy to send them to the UK or any other country.
BamfordMike said:
CraigV12V said:
Mike, you used to service my V12V carbon black, which I sold and I now have a V12VS which will be coming to you in June for first year's service.
My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Millennium 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
Hi Craig!My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Millennium 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
The Tesco tanker will fill up from the same outlet as BP tanker so like for like the Octane rating will be similar despite what the sticker on the pump suggests the octane rating might be (they have tolerances!). The V12 engine might crank on 1 or 2 degree spark for higher octane fuel?? But at approx. 3BHP per 1 degree spark increase will anybody feel even 6BHP in 565? The debate then, as you state, is all about the detergents each fuel company mixes with the fuel they all extract from the same dispenser, and i dont believe there is any hard data out there to prove / disprove any comments that marketing make. BP's latest marketing campaign is a school of Piranhas chomping their way through carbon in an engine making us think their detergents are the best, but where indeed is the data to prove this? Quite ironic that the Piranhas are chomping carbon from the inside of an engine, they are clearly desperately hungry after hoovering up oil slicks previously leaked into the worlds oceans!
Considering the marginable power gain, if it were me i would not chase the ultimate highest octane and fill with the best 97/99 - Shell optimax or BP ultimate
Ex Boy Racer said:
BamfordMike said:
CraigV12V said:
Mike, you used to service my V12V carbon black, which I sold and I now have a V12VS which will be coming to you in June for first year's service.
My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Millennium 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
No, the detergents are the reason to spend the extra £100 or so a year.My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Millennium 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
Hi Craig!
The Tesco tanker will fill up from the same outlet as BP tanker so like for like the Octane rating will be similar despite what the sticker on the pump suggests the octane rating might be (they have tolerances!). The V12 engine might crank on 1 or 2 degree spark for higher octane fuel?? But at approx. 3BHP per 1 degree spark increase will anybody feel even 6BHP in 565? The debate then, as you state, is all about the detergents each fuel company mixes with the fuel they all extract from the same dispenser, and i dont believe there is any hard data out there to prove / disprove any comments that marketing make. BP's latest marketing campaign is a school of Piranhas chomping their way through carbon in an engine making us think their detergents are the best, but where indeed is the data to prove this? Quite ironic that the Piranhas are chomping carbon from the inside of an engine, they are clearly desperately hungry after hoovering up oil slicks previously leaked into the worlds oceans!
Considering the marginable power gain, if it were me i would not chase the ultimate highest octane and fill with the best 97/99 - Shell optimax or BP ultimate
Zod said:
Ex Boy Racer said:
BamfordMike said:
CraigV12V said:
Mike, you used to service my V12V carbon black, which I sold and I now have a V12VS which will be coming to you in June for first year's service.
My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Millennium 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
No, the detergents are the reason to spend the extra £100 or so a year.My question is regarding fuel. You have posted details of my old car not benefiting from higher ron fuel as it didn't have a knock sensor but the new one does. The highest octane fuel around seems to be Tesco Millennium 99. I have googled to see what the world has to say about Tesco fuel and there doesn't seem to be much quality analysis. Have you any thoughts on this 99 ron fuel? We should get a bit more power from it but is its quality in dispute? Are the BP Ultimate or Shell VPower fuels superior in any way?
Hi Craig!
The Tesco tanker will fill up from the same outlet as BP tanker so like for like the Octane rating will be similar despite what the sticker on the pump suggests the octane rating might be (they have tolerances!). The V12 engine might crank on 1 or 2 degree spark for higher octane fuel?? But at approx. 3BHP per 1 degree spark increase will anybody feel even 6BHP in 565? The debate then, as you state, is all about the detergents each fuel company mixes with the fuel they all extract from the same dispenser, and i dont believe there is any hard data out there to prove / disprove any comments that marketing make. BP's latest marketing campaign is a school of Piranhas chomping their way through carbon in an engine making us think their detergents are the best, but where indeed is the data to prove this? Quite ironic that the Piranhas are chomping carbon from the inside of an engine, they are clearly desperately hungry after hoovering up oil slicks previously leaked into the worlds oceans!
Considering the marginable power gain, if it were me i would not chase the ultimate highest octane and fill with the best 97/99 - Shell optimax or BP ultimate
I question why on the link below there is no mention of their 95Ron product? which is a premium product over a Tesco 95Ron? the only aspect which would make it a premium product is the detergent blend (because the tanker from Tesco fills up at same dispenser than BP), but where is the spec sheet which spells out the detergent difference which can then be used to define the incremental benefit between their base 95Ron fuel and ultimate?
A fuel having Dirt busting claims is a little far fetched imho too.
http://www.bp.com/en_gb/on-the-road/united-kingdom...
Take apart a 70k miles DB9 V12 engine which has been used on regular fuel all its life and its hardly carbon'd up like engines from days of old. These days high pressure injectors targeted at the valve naturally clean the internal system and precise fuel injection maintains combustion to a clean burn.
I too would like to buy the best for my machines, but where is the data for me to know i'm actually doing so and not just burning money? This forum especially knows the difference between a wishy-washy online sales pitch aimed at a 5 year old with no substance to back up the over egged claims Vs the reality / believable claims and data. Not that BP are guilty of that, i just want to like-for-like compare say the 95 product with the best and the data to do that i can not find.
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