Aston Martin advice from Bamford Rose independent specialist
Discussion
Morning Mike,
Just over a week till I bring my beloved S up to you. That is despite the misgivings of my local dealers service dept.
Couple of questions, I understand that you will be fitting a switch which will operate the valves in the rear silencer, how does that work in conjunction with the Sport button ie if the switch was in the off position as the revs rose would it be overridden? The service advisor also claimed that we could expect oxygen sensor problems, your thoughts.
I am actually looking forward to showing him your dyno readouts for my car as in before and after.
Amanda is slightly concerned about the increased sound levels, will it be a bit or a lot?
While the car is in your care could Paddy work his magic on it? If so would he be kind enough to contact me? Adrian has my number.
I look forward to seeing you on Monday 23rd
Regards
Robert (robgt)
Just over a week till I bring my beloved S up to you. That is despite the misgivings of my local dealers service dept.
Couple of questions, I understand that you will be fitting a switch which will operate the valves in the rear silencer, how does that work in conjunction with the Sport button ie if the switch was in the off position as the revs rose would it be overridden? The service advisor also claimed that we could expect oxygen sensor problems, your thoughts.
I am actually looking forward to showing him your dyno readouts for my car as in before and after.
Amanda is slightly concerned about the increased sound levels, will it be a bit or a lot?
While the car is in your care could Paddy work his magic on it? If so would he be kind enough to contact me? Adrian has my number.
I look forward to seeing you on Monday 23rd
Regards
Robert (robgt)
robgt said:
Morning Mike,
Just over a week till I bring my beloved S up to you. That is despite the misgivings of my local dealers service dept.
Couple of questions, I understand that you will be fitting a switch which will operate the valves in the rear silencer, how does that work in conjunction with the Sport button ie if the switch was in the off position as the revs rose would it be overridden? The service advisor also claimed that we could expect oxygen sensor problems, your thoughts.
I am actually looking forward to showing him your dyno readouts for my car as in before and after.
Amanda is slightly concerned about the increased sound levels, will it be a bit or a lot?
While the car is in your care could Paddy work his magic on it? If so would he be kind enough to contact me? Adrian has my number.
I look forward to seeing you on Monday 23rd
Regards
Robert (robgt)
Hi RobJust over a week till I bring my beloved S up to you. That is despite the misgivings of my local dealers service dept.
Couple of questions, I understand that you will be fitting a switch which will operate the valves in the rear silencer, how does that work in conjunction with the Sport button ie if the switch was in the off position as the revs rose would it be overridden? The service advisor also claimed that we could expect oxygen sensor problems, your thoughts.
I am actually looking forward to showing him your dyno readouts for my car as in before and after.
Amanda is slightly concerned about the increased sound levels, will it be a bit or a lot?
While the car is in your care could Paddy work his magic on it? If so would he be kind enough to contact me? Adrian has my number.
I look forward to seeing you on Monday 23rd
Regards
Robert (robgt)
The main concern whilst your car is in our care is that we dont let paddy anywhere near it with intention of pitching a gazebo around it
To answer your questions, the service advisor is better off sticking to exactly that
how many PH folk who have written about their BR upgrade on here have complained about the Issue he raises?When the Switch we fit to control exhaust note is off / inactive the Valves Will operate as standard. With Switch active the Valves Will be open all the time which Will sound glorious on vantage S..!
When the Valves operate in standard mode (closed) the note Will be nearly as quiet as it is Now. With Valves open the note Will be much deeper in tone, never going Raspy higher up the rev range.
You Will be the first S to have the upgrade kit, will be good to see both before and after power curves.
Look forward to seeing you soon
AstonZagato said:
bump...
No remap required to the TT gearbox ECU and the input torque increase is within mechanical capability / durability the gearbox can withstand.When not in paddle mode, yes, the upshifts wont be at a speed to make full use of the increased engine speed / power, the gearbox will change / behave as per standard. Shift quality will not be affected in any way due to increased torque. When in paddle mode the full range of the engine power increase can be explored as in effect engine or driver request on paddles 'drives or controls' the gearbox.
BamfordMike said:
No remap required to the TT gearbox ECU and the input torque increase is within mechanical capability / durability the gearbox can withstand.
When not in paddle mode, yes, the upshifts wont be at a speed to make full use of the increased engine speed / power, the gearbox will change / behave as per standard. Shift quality will not be affected in any way due to increased torque. When in paddle mode the full range of the engine power increase can be explored as in effect engine or driver request on paddles 'drives or controls' the gearbox.
Even in paddle mode, doesn't the engine change up at the redline (unless it's in sports mode). On Yeti's car, I thought you'd raised the redline - or was it just that peak power is higher?When not in paddle mode, yes, the upshifts wont be at a speed to make full use of the increased engine speed / power, the gearbox will change / behave as per standard. Shift quality will not be affected in any way due to increased torque. When in paddle mode the full range of the engine power increase can be explored as in effect engine or driver request on paddles 'drives or controls' the gearbox.
BamfordMike said:
AstonZagato said:
bump...
No remap required to the TT gearbox ECU and the input torque increase is within mechanical capability / durability the gearbox can withstand.When not in paddle mode, yes, the upshifts wont be at a speed to make full use of the increased engine speed / power, the gearbox will change / behave as per standard. Shift quality will not be affected in any way due to increased torque. When in paddle mode the full range of the engine power increase can be explored as in effect engine or driver request on paddles 'drives or controls' the gearbox.
AstonZagato said:
On Yeti's car, I thought you'd raised the redline - or was it just that peak power is higher?
Both. There was no point raising the redline on a standard V12 car, despite the fact the components are fine with it, because the car had run out of puff before it got anywhere near it. Now that it's still pulling hard up there, why not give the extra revs 
jonby said:
What is the limit of 183mph for TT cars all about - a speed limiter, a rev limiter in top gear that equates to 183mph, or just Aston nonsense ?
All cars have a speed limit, this is where the gearing Vs revs Vs power takes the car. The manual 6th gear is just that little bit taller than the TT so it has a few revs left in the bag; hence it's that little bit faster. Aston 'nonsense' was puting a 165mph limit on Volantes in case the roof vapourised or whatever. They soon took it off
yeti said:
jonby said:
What is the limit of 183mph for TT cars all about - a speed limiter, a rev limiter in top gear that equates to 183mph, or just Aston nonsense ?
All cars have a speed limit, this is where the gearing Vs revs Vs power takes the car. The manual 6th gear is just that little bit taller than the TT so it has a few revs left in the bag; hence it's that little bit faster. Aston 'nonsense' was puting a 165mph limit on Volantes in case the roof vapourised or whatever. They soon took it off
jonby said:
That doesn't quite explain why the new Vanquish with TT is also 183 then, which was actually the reason for my question. Because surely if revs & gearing are the same but power is higher, 310 Vanquish (how do we differentiate between new & old vanquish now ?!?) should have a higher top speed. Unless they have changed the gearing on TT for vanquish....
If they'd wanted a higher top speed they'd have to change the diff or final drive ratio. Looks like they didn't bother. All the extra power will do is get it to that top speed quicker!LongLiveTazio said:
Just out of interest, if you did your 700bhp Vanquish project would you keep the original gearbox, use the manual, do something else?
Manual 'box but it would be nice to see if we could get NVH levels of fully sequential box to acceptable state for road car. Been in a few Aston race cars with this box and if could be tamed for road it would be fab.driveline to road wheels would need upgrade too
To be clear we were discussing 700BHP (ish) for V12 engine'd new era car which would 'Vanquish' and new <cough> 'Vanquish' - 700BHP in the true Vanquish (a Mk1 Newport car) would need LOTS of the gearbox and driveline components upgrading
yeti said:
jonby said:
That doesn't quite explain why the new Vanquish with TT is also 183 then, which was actually the reason for my question. Because surely if revs & gearing are the same but power is higher, 310 Vanquish (how do we differentiate between new & old vanquish now ?!?) should have a higher top speed. Unless they have changed the gearing on TT for vanquish....
If they'd wanted a higher top speed they'd have to change the diff or final drive ratio. Looks like they didn't bother. All the extra power will do is get it to that top speed quicker!However...
Biggest contributing factor is the drag coefficient.
Original Vanquish had one of the most slippery surfaces of any car bodywork, and is the biggest contributing factor to why with its 520BHP engine reaches top vehicle speed / exceeds 200mph.
DB9 was less slippery, DBS less slippery still than Vanquish, and with increasing power levels is the hidden reason why Vmax speeds reduce.
The shift in styling is the reason and I find this interview very interesting when compared with styling of today.
http://www.netcarshow.com/aston_martin/2004-db9/
Fisker states;
Clean and elegant surfacing
"Aston Martins are not edgy cars - they don't have sharp surfaces or pronounced power domes," says Fisker. "The bodywork is elegant and gently curved, like a supremely fit person, with great muscle tone. But it is not like a body builder, who is bulky and out of harmony." - Still current????
The designers of the Aston Martin DB9 balanced beauty with aerodynamic performance. Sharp corners and chiselled profiles can reduce Cd figures, but can also lead to bland and unsightly styling. Pushing wheels out to each corner, in the Aston Martin tradition, improves stability and handling but also means 'Coke bottle' curves down the car's sides, which can have an effect on the Cd figure. The Aston Martin DB9's drag coefficient is 0.35, similar to that of the Aston Martin Vanquish.
"A low Cd figure was not an absolute priority," says Fisker. "The goal was superb styling with high speed stability and great front-to-rear balance."
So... Since Vanquish MK1 styling has gone against optimum Cd - top speeds have reduced.
To put engine power and drag into context, about 60% of the power required to cruise at motorway cruise / high speeds is used to overcome aerodynamic effects.
This could clearly be seen by us recently when we upgraded the DB9 Coupe with the Bamford Rose GT3 engine - acceleration time and top speed was reached (around track
much quicker than same power engine in the less slippery DBS bodyLongLiveTazio said:
Do you think the new new Vanquish would be a better platform then?
I'm a big fan of the understated styling of cars of old (2005 entry) - so for me, for a full fat V12 I would always choose an early level DB9 Manual as the donor. But V12V or yes, Vanquish MKII would be great modern palette to inject the same steroids into. What is under the skin doesn't matter as Vanquish MKII is simply evolved VH platform which we would take an early level DB9 to anyway.
BamfordMike said:
In the quest to improve, there is no reason to stop at 4.7L with the current V8. Keeping the engine square and going to 93 / 93mm @ 5.1L or 95 / 95mm @ 5.4L is possible within the architecture.
Mike, curiosity has got the better of me - why then, did Jaguar go to he expense of creating a 'new' engine - rather that just doing the same ?BamfordMike said:
yeti said:
jonby said:
That doesn't quite explain why the new Vanquish with TT is also 183 then, which was actually the reason for my question. Because surely if revs & gearing are the same but power is higher, 310 Vanquish (how do we differentiate between new & old vanquish now ?!?) should have a higher top speed. Unless they have changed the gearing on TT for vanquish....
If they'd wanted a higher top speed they'd have to change the diff or final drive ratio. Looks like they didn't bother. All the extra power will do is get it to that top speed quicker!However...
Biggest contributing factor is the drag coefficient.
Original Vanquish had one of the most slippery surfaces of any car bodywork, and is the biggest contributing factor to why with its 520BHP engine reaches top vehicle speed / exceeds 200mph.
DB9 was less slippery, DBS less slippery still than Vanquish, and with increasing power levels is the hidden reason why Vmax speeds reduce.
Even if new Vanquish is less aerodynamically efficient than DBS, surely with the same gearing and more power, it should have a higher top speed. The fact that it's always 183 mph quoted for TT cars would appear to suggest there is some artificial limitation going on. There are also very few cars with this kind of power that don't have a quoted top speed of at least 10mph more - I'm not arguing with your logic Mike, just not fully understanding ! :-)
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