Aston Martin advice from Bamford Rose independent specialist
Discussion
theno23 said:
Thanks for your response Mike. Only just saw your message this afternoon, but did the test just now.
a) The squeak only happens just as the engine is firing up, for a second or less - didn't get it all while cranking with the pedal down full.
b) I would guess it goes within a few revolutions, but it only happens when the engine fires, not when cranking, or stopping cranking without firing.
c) and d) There's nothing unusual when cranking.
e) It sounds normal to me when I stop cranking, if the engine doesn't fire.
I let the engine run til it was idling at about 8-900 RPM, then switched off and fired up again, the noise was just about audible with the door open, but very brief, maybe 1/10th of a second. I would have missed it if the door was shut I think.
Cheers,
Steve
Thanks for conducting these tests Steve.a) The squeak only happens just as the engine is firing up, for a second or less - didn't get it all while cranking with the pedal down full.
b) I would guess it goes within a few revolutions, but it only happens when the engine fires, not when cranking, or stopping cranking without firing.
c) and d) There's nothing unusual when cranking.
e) It sounds normal to me when I stop cranking, if the engine doesn't fire.
I let the engine run til it was idling at about 8-900 RPM, then switched off and fired up again, the noise was just about audible with the door open, but very brief, maybe 1/10th of a second. I would have missed it if the door was shut I think.
Cheers,
Steve
I think there is enough info here not to worry that any part is at risk of long term or in fact any damage or risk.
Where next..... I think we need to perform the same series of tests with car up in air on ramp and listen from underneath and go from there. When can you next get to us? If you cant get to us easily and you can wait until next service then apart from the squeak, no damage or problem that would put any part at risk exists here i'm sure. There are many potential causes of noise at start from v8, we have to isolate this particular squeak and resolve for you ourselves.
I have EXACTLY the same symptoms as you describe here. As far as i am aware my car doesnt have any mods, its just as it was from new i think???
I have just had my service/mot done at AM and all was reported to be perfect. I assumed it was the belt/pulley and AM said they were happy to upgrade this at my cost of course, but as they said all was perfectly well and they see no problem with anything, I have left it for now.
It doesnt happen everytime I use the car.. it's very random and occurs when it feels like it!
I hope you get it sorted, let me know what you find out, I am curious as I have exactly the same going on without the flywheel upgrade!
I have just had my service/mot done at AM and all was reported to be perfect. I assumed it was the belt/pulley and AM said they were happy to upgrade this at my cost of course, but as they said all was perfectly well and they see no problem with anything, I have left it for now.
It doesnt happen everytime I use the car.. it's very random and occurs when it feels like it!
I hope you get it sorted, let me know what you find out, I am curious as I have exactly the same going on without the flywheel upgrade!
theno23 said:
Thanks for your response Mike. Only just saw your message this afternoon, but did the test just now.
a) The squeak only happens just as the engine is firing up, for a second or less - didn't get it all while cranking with the pedal down full.
b) I would guess it goes within a few revolutions, but it only happens when the engine fires, not when cranking, or stopping cranking without firing.
c) and d) There's nothing unusual when cranking.
e) It sounds normal to me when I stop cranking, if the engine doesn't fire.
I let the engine run til it was idling at about 8-900 RPM, then switched off and fired up again, the noise was just about audible with the door open, but very brief, maybe 1/10th of a second. I would have missed it if the door was shut I think.
Cheers,
Steve
a) The squeak only happens just as the engine is firing up, for a second or less - didn't get it all while cranking with the pedal down full.
b) I would guess it goes within a few revolutions, but it only happens when the engine fires, not when cranking, or stopping cranking without firing.
c) and d) There's nothing unusual when cranking.
e) It sounds normal to me when I stop cranking, if the engine doesn't fire.
I let the engine run til it was idling at about 8-900 RPM, then switched off and fired up again, the noise was just about audible with the door open, but very brief, maybe 1/10th of a second. I would have missed it if the door was shut I think.
Cheers,
Steve
BamfordMike said:
Thanks for conducting these tests Steve.
I think there is enough info here not to worry that any part is at risk of long term or in fact any damage or risk.
Where next..... I think we need to perform the same series of tests with car up in air on ramp and listen from underneath and go from there. When can you next get to us? If you cant get to us easily and you can wait until next service then apart from the squeak, no damage or problem that would put any part at risk exists here i'm sure. There are many potential causes of noise at start from v8, we have to isolate this particular squeak and resolve for you ourselves.
Thanks Mike.I think there is enough info here not to worry that any part is at risk of long term or in fact any damage or risk.
Where next..... I think we need to perform the same series of tests with car up in air on ramp and listen from underneath and go from there. When can you next get to us? If you cant get to us easily and you can wait until next service then apart from the squeak, no damage or problem that would put any part at risk exists here i'm sure. There are many potential causes of noise at start from v8, we have to isolate this particular squeak and resolve for you ourselves.
Unfortunately I'm in London, and it's hard to be without the car for a significant time.
If it gets worse, I'll drop it off at Nicholas Mee, or Trinity, for them to look at on the lift.
My service is due in the summer.
Cheers,
Steve
JohnG1 said:
Following on from another thread about positive crankcase ventilation valves - if Bamford Rose were to do an engine out job on a V12 would some remediation of this issue be part of the job sheet?
It's good around here when you post up...... 
In a word - no.. just simply checking original design is in working order is all we would do.
Linked with that thread and the other base engine threads out there (sorry to the OP's of those threads, I have a different view), neither would we consider oil catch tanks (great for track though) or anything other than renewing (if condition / age / mileage warranted) hydraulic lash adjusters or finger / followers.
I would however implement oil level sensing / electronic dipstick and proper warning system - that's the smart move....
I make these statements based on this lot;;;
The issue of breather valves failing is both easily spotted and corrected, renewal with new components cures the issue, also it is worth remembering that production cars and cars within warranty, to the best of my knowledge, do not exhibit this problem either meaning that there is no design flaw to correct here. Just parts to check routinely are within service. So, I would resolve the problems which seems to appear outside of warranty with the design the factory originally specified.
Oil catch tanks come with their own problems, how would we know how full they are? what happens if oil leaks out due to over filing (fire risk if leaked onto exhaust and if in wheel arch liner what happens if leaks onto tyre?
A lash adjuster is not a fit and forget for life part IMO, it wears out and more so if having to deal with taking up clearances concerning limits of all other component / manufacturing tolerances. Yes, there are jap cars out there with original lash adjusters after 200k miles - the difference is they generally spend more money on engine internals. Somebody has to consider the time after warranty period the component will likely fail compared with the extra spend to earn the reputation of bulletproof engine maker.
However as i said, i would implement electronic oil level sensing because the problem that is present, is that slowly, slowly across time the oil level reduces, and even if within an acceptable limit (1L per 1k miles), it is easy not to lift the bonnet and dip oil regularly enough to avoid level dropping below minimum level.
I would not take the approach of a longer dipstick and more oil in the sump - that action doesn't solve the problem - it just hopes for more time for driver to check oil level. but worse, all that extra oil thrashing around the crank will reduce torque / power and increase fuel consumption due to the additional parasitic loss.
i have seen comments like the factory should acknowledge the problem of oil consumption / ticking engine and recall and correct. I don't agree with that because cars generally fly through warranty period without developing any problem. BUT..... i am aware of 5 DB9 V12's so far THIS YEAR...23 days...!! that have failed motors due to low oil level. If it were my business and in the interest of customer good will and relations, i might think about recalling all cars to retro-fit oil level sensing, the main reason apart from not having upset customer with massive repair bill outside of warranty would be to avoid the potential of being lablled a car maker who's engines are ticking timebombs and the damage this can cause. HOWEVER, it must be stressed that with the simple check of making sure breather circuit in service, lash adjusters are in service and regular oil level checks - no problem is present IMO.
AMDBSNick said:
03:18 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway Mike can you do this work?
If requested, yes Nick... it is a simple sensor, a bit of programming and a light or even buzzer in cabin somewhere.Anyway Mike can you do this work?
it will cost a fair bit as sump will require removal, meaning it might be cheaper for a couple of hypnotherapy sessions to help with simply checking the oil with a dipstick the old fashioned way instead.
In all seriousness, either one of these will do for me, cos it really ain't comfortable to tell somebody they have a circa £15k repair bill due to not being careful with oil level. I have had to do this a number of times now, and i can 'see' the feeling of somebody wanting to kick themselves rapidly turn into anger that the car never warned them of the impending doom...
I joke only......what about... Power...Beauty....Soul destroying if you don't check your oil level...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xfjYRV8O5E&fea...
This might be too tempting for some to resist copying but don't do it folks, don't try this at home - you will lose your money
This is Jessica despite what the number on the plenum says....
She pumps out circa. 526NM / 485BHP does 0-60 in 4.05 seconds and is a complete animal, yet purrs like a kitten and is silky smooth due to the balancing and meticulous attention to detail during build.
Thought we would take this video to show off her pedigree before we lose the flat surface of the factory plenum in trade for the curves of the Bamford Rose upgraded twin throttle inlet manifold. 500BHP+ here we come. Dont get twitchy Robert, we used Jessica for trials, your mean machine Vantage S gets first production application
This might be too tempting for some to resist copying but don't do it folks, don't try this at home - you will lose your money
This is Jessica despite what the number on the plenum says....
She pumps out circa. 526NM / 485BHP does 0-60 in 4.05 seconds and is a complete animal, yet purrs like a kitten and is silky smooth due to the balancing and meticulous attention to detail during build.
Thought we would take this video to show off her pedigree before we lose the flat surface of the factory plenum in trade for the curves of the Bamford Rose upgraded twin throttle inlet manifold. 500BHP+ here we come. Dont get twitchy Robert, we used Jessica for trials, your mean machine Vantage S gets first production application
Hi Yeti,
The plan is to fit the switchable suspension, lower the car a bit?? fit the dual induction system and manifolds (that should add about 25-30BHP). A lightened flywheel and twin plate clutch is also to be added. Mike reckons that little lot should give me about 480BHP.
We also discussed fitting 5 litre cylinder heads with gas flowing and porting . That would take me into 500BHP plus. I think Mike would prefer me to go in stages as you are doing. I will know more on Saturday.
It is going to be very strange not having my car in its garage.
The plan is to fit the switchable suspension, lower the car a bit?? fit the dual induction system and manifolds (that should add about 25-30BHP). A lightened flywheel and twin plate clutch is also to be added. Mike reckons that little lot should give me about 480BHP.
We also discussed fitting 5 litre cylinder heads with gas flowing and porting . That would take me into 500BHP plus. I think Mike would prefer me to go in stages as you are doing. I will know more on Saturday.
It is going to be very strange not having my car in its garage.
yeti said:
robgt said:
See you on Saturday Mike. Depending on the weather should be round about 11am.
What are you up to Taylor? 
Say hello to my car for me
Oh and Mike, should I can guinea pig for the oil sensor when my new build goes ahead?
Can't be sure if we will make it up to BR tomorrow but I will be sure to check up on your baby if we do. Any updates on weather conditions up there tomorrow morning would be gratefully received
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