Aston Martin advice from Bamford Rose independent specialist
Discussion
DB9 has a Cd of 0.35, The DB7 GT has the spec showing as 0.32.
What was the Cd for the V12 Vanquish?
I fully understand the need for aerodynamics as this at higher speeds is the MAJOR factor governing speed.
Air resistance is very substantial up at the 200mph and beyond mark. Like driving through water and then treacle as you progress further.
The GT was 20% stiffer than the std Vantage, could this not be improved upon further?
A brace over the engine for starters and shear plates underneath would all help. Then new suspension and a tuned engine ;-)
I imagine the clutch and drive train on the GT would be more than capable.
What was the Cd for the V12 Vanquish?
I fully understand the need for aerodynamics as this at higher speeds is the MAJOR factor governing speed.
Air resistance is very substantial up at the 200mph and beyond mark. Like driving through water and then treacle as you progress further.
The GT was 20% stiffer than the std Vantage, could this not be improved upon further?
A brace over the engine for starters and shear plates underneath would all help. Then new suspension and a tuned engine ;-)
I imagine the clutch and drive train on the GT would be more than capable.
Nice work by BR on robgt's Vantage S. If you haven't been there already see separate thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Hi Mike,
New bloke here. Looking at a V8V on PH for sale with an aftermarket 'N400' power upgrade, but not done by AM. Apparently conducted by a company called Paramount. Are you aware of this procedure and do you have any thoughts? I'm a little unsure tbh,
Thanks in advance,
Mark (Bincezo)
New bloke here. Looking at a V8V on PH for sale with an aftermarket 'N400' power upgrade, but not done by AM. Apparently conducted by a company called Paramount. Are you aware of this procedure and do you have any thoughts? I'm a little unsure tbh,
Thanks in advance,
Mark (Bincezo)
Bincenzo said:
Hi Mike,
New bloke here. Looking at a V8V on PH for sale with an aftermarket 'N400' power upgrade, but not done by AM. Apparently conducted by a company called Paramount. Are you aware of this procedure and do you have any thoughts? I'm a little unsure tbh,
Thanks in advance,
Mark (Bincezo)
Hi.New bloke here. Looking at a V8V on PH for sale with an aftermarket 'N400' power upgrade, but not done by AM. Apparently conducted by a company called Paramount. Are you aware of this procedure and do you have any thoughts? I'm a little unsure tbh,
Thanks in advance,
Mark (Bincezo)
The N400 power upgrade, and that kit taken and fitted as an optional extra,'AM power upgrade' (air boxes and ECU reflash - and lets not forget the power unleashing crackle black inlet manifold
involves an ECU reflash to complete the works, and to the best of my knowledge can only be performed by dealer.Perhaps they have installed their own 'take' of the power upgrade kit, which is fine, but it cannot technically be called 'N400' or 'AM power upgrade' unless of course they purchased the kit from dealer and fitted it themselves. I cant advise on the merits of any performance upgrade from that outfit, there hasn't been that much talk of their wares on this forum and i have never seen a kit from them in our repair and service shop either.
Does the car come with any dyno tests (independent
)mikey k said:
mrdemon said:
I think Banford Rose sites been hacked the site has a virus on it and is blocked from my system.
Mal/HTMLGen-A virus
Yep same here - just sent Mike a text to alert himMal/HTMLGen-A virus
This has proper hacked me off....!!
We were attacked once, anti virus stuff applied by IT fellows. That cured the problem for the same lovely fellow to come back a second time and bring it down once again. Another wave of security measures i have no real clue of how they work applied again. I just looked on tinternet and it seems to be not working for a third time around??
Molly GT said:
Nice work by BR on robgt's Vantage S. If you haven't been there already see separate thread:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Plus new video:http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCFrkik88ww
Hi,
After reading this (an extract from a post by markv8v)..............
Having owned the car for a few months and really started to get to know it well it was time to start the upgrades.
I checked them all out the official Aston upgrade the Prodrive package and finally the Bamford Rose offering.
I spoke to Mike in detail and he was very understanding and recommended their Headers, Cats and induction modification package would be the best place to start so it was agreed.
Whilst waiting my turn in the queue I read Oli Halls posting and was so impressed with his write up on the Flywheel and clutch package that a phone call to Mike and that was booked as well.
Full post here......... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I am wondering roughly how much this package costs and how it would break down.
Thanks you.
After reading this (an extract from a post by markv8v)..............
Having owned the car for a few months and really started to get to know it well it was time to start the upgrades.
I checked them all out the official Aston upgrade the Prodrive package and finally the Bamford Rose offering.
I spoke to Mike in detail and he was very understanding and recommended their Headers, Cats and induction modification package would be the best place to start so it was agreed.
Whilst waiting my turn in the queue I read Oli Halls posting and was so impressed with his write up on the Flywheel and clutch package that a phone call to Mike and that was booked as well.
Full post here......... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I am wondering roughly how much this package costs and how it would break down.
Thanks you.
Molly GT said:
She sure does sound sweet...! Glad you and RobGT enjoying the new lease of life the beast has been given.Here are the extra ponies responsible for the thunderous sound....!
Little Donkey said:
Hi,
Headers, Cats and induction modification package, Flywheel and clutch package.
Full post here......... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I am wondering roughly how much this package costs and how it would break down.
Thanks you.
Hi.Headers, Cats and induction modification package, Flywheel and clutch package.
Full post here......... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I am wondering roughly how much this package costs and how it would break down.
Thanks you.
The exhaust upgrade is a pair of Tuned equal length primary pipes, high flow catalysts, induction system which replicates the improvements the AM Power upgrade returns and a switch to manually control the exhaust bypass valves open or closed. The lightweight flywheel allows the engine to rev up much faster which together with the power delivered to the road wheels from the exhaust, significantly improves driveability and performance feel. The flywheel also allows fitment of the twinplate heavy duty clutch, the twinplate clutch will not fit to a standard flywheel. To finish the weight reduction and improved response from the engine we now also include in the kit a light weight, fully tuned and developed crankshaft damper pulley.
Exhaust manifolds, catalysts, induction and exhaust kit = £4200 supplied and fitted
Lightweight flywheel, lightweight crankshaft damper pulley and twinplate clutch = £3000 supplied and fitted with exhaust upgrade, £3500 on its own. Both prices exclude VAT.
Some pics of the booty if you haven't already seen;
GTDB7 said:
DB9 has a Cd of 0.35, The DB7 GT has the spec showing as 0.32.
What was the Cd for the V12 Vanquish?
I fully understand the need for aerodynamics as this at higher speeds is the MAJOR factor governing speed.
Air resistance is very substantial up at the 200mph and beyond mark. Like driving through water and then treacle as you progress further.
The GT was 20% stiffer than the std Vantage, could this not be improved upon further?
A brace over the engine for starters and shear plates underneath would all help. Then new suspension and a tuned engine ;-)
I imagine the clutch and drive train on the GT would be more than capable.
Vanquish Cd 0.34. its interesting to see that this stat is not published, or at least the searches i have made draw a blank, for all newer models.What was the Cd for the V12 Vanquish?
I fully understand the need for aerodynamics as this at higher speeds is the MAJOR factor governing speed.
Air resistance is very substantial up at the 200mph and beyond mark. Like driving through water and then treacle as you progress further.
The GT was 20% stiffer than the std Vantage, could this not be improved upon further?
A brace over the engine for starters and shear plates underneath would all help. Then new suspension and a tuned engine ;-)
I imagine the clutch and drive train on the GT would be more than capable.
The newly developed twinplate clutch now fitted to all DB7's that require a new clutch is very strong and more than capable of tolerating significantly more torque. I'm not sure the chassis could be massively evolved onward from GT, the older style architecture of the chassis / subframe mounting is limiting factor. But yes, uprated front and rear V Block subframe mountings, roll bar bushes, drop links and rear trailing arms would help. For suspension, upgrade to the DB7 I6 Works dynamic upgrade special edition is probably the best suspension for a '7 i have driven - or for something more daring than 'off the peg' we could apply an electronic switchable system BR developed.
Like the projects completed for Pommehogster and Yeti - anything is possible to reach a pinnacle, it is just a matter of budget as there is no getting away from the fact that the quality of parts needed to surpass factory command a premium. But with the '7's timeless, classic looks, a project to evolve the 7 and mechanically see it fit for another innings, when viewed like that, is a good bet IMHO.
Happy times, new products…..
If something isn’t broke don’t meddle, it’s generally a good strategy, however, engineers tinker, engineers we are and tinker we have…….
Pictured in the above post is the Bamford Rose, well known tried and tested V8 Vantage exhaust manifolds and catalysts. Pictured below is an experimental revision made to that design for a one-off special set for a ‘look – see’…..
The primary pipe length and volume has changed for this special system, so has the collector cones and secondary pipe lengths – the reason for the meddling, simple, more power……!!
The changes to pipe volume and tube lengths were designed to give more low speed torque at the expense of peak power. The F1 race inspired collector cones were implemented to recover the lost power from the dynamic pipe length / volume change. The manifolds and catalysts have been ceramic coated to reduce under bonnet thermal temperatures to further aid power from cooler air charge, a result of lower temperatures.
The collector cones and ceramic coating were inspired from the development of the BR V12 exhaust system as seen in Yeti’s beast. The idea was that our V8 system would benefit from the same uncompromised design as seen in the V12 part, however the bad – this revision would carry a price increase / penalty. The end result of the study would be to see if the extra ‘bang’ for the extra buck was worth pursuing.
Before the graphs and pics of the booty, the vital stats…..
Standard 4.3L performance is;
410Nm @ 5500 rpm
380BHP @ 7300 rpm
The test car produced;
375Nm @ 5500 rpm
371BHP @ 7300 rpm
The engine was a little down on factory standard figures to the tune of,
-35Nm @ 5500 rpm
-9BHP @ 7300 rpm
This is quite common if the engine has low compression ratio and cam timing set not to optimum. What we were interested in for this particular study was the delta difference between the two exhaust specifications, so we decided to continue. The engine was health checked and no problems were reported, so it’s just a case of this engine being a low one.
With the ceramic coating, F1 inspired collectors and tuned primary pipes we achieved;
430Nm @ 5500 rpm
413BHP @ 7300 rpm
The delta difference being;
+55Nm @ 5500 rpm
+42BHP @ 7300 rpm
Test work we have conducted on V8’s modified to date with the original BR exhaust manifolds and catalysts returns this delta;
+35Nm @ 5500 rpm
+35/40BHP @ 7500 rpm
Meaning that this uncompromised revision returns, above our current kit;
+20Nm @ 5500 rpm
+7BHP @ 7500 rpm
A successful tinker then….! but the million dollar question will be what is the extra buck on top of the spend for the current system (£4200)? – A question which for volume production sets is a question yet to be answered. The extra construction time, materials cost, ceramic coating and fitting time caused by this pinnacle design will ballpark an increase of £1500 on top of the £4200 + the VAT.
So, the BR exhaust system which is +35Nm, 35/40BHP = £4200 +VAT. The pinnacle design £5700 + VAT for an extra 20Nm/7BHP (55NM / 42BHP total delta increase). Normally bang for buck is a ratio of BHP Vs spend, but this revision was made to increase low speed torque and driveability / throttle response – which is the biggest niggle, not ultimate power, that many of you have asked BR to offer a solution to improve.
The original BR exhaust upgrade proves ever popular, we currently fit at least one per week and therefore we keep at least 2 in stock at any one time as race cars consume the upgrade too meaning we have to ship the parts at moments notice. However, since the V12 ‘pinnacle’ exhaust system design commands a high premium meaning take up is less, means we make to order – as will be the case of this V8 ‘pinnacle’ revision.
Well done to Shane and Russell at RS Fabrications for crafting such a well made piece of art
If something isn’t broke don’t meddle, it’s generally a good strategy, however, engineers tinker, engineers we are and tinker we have…….
Pictured in the above post is the Bamford Rose, well known tried and tested V8 Vantage exhaust manifolds and catalysts. Pictured below is an experimental revision made to that design for a one-off special set for a ‘look – see’…..
The primary pipe length and volume has changed for this special system, so has the collector cones and secondary pipe lengths – the reason for the meddling, simple, more power……!!
The changes to pipe volume and tube lengths were designed to give more low speed torque at the expense of peak power. The F1 race inspired collector cones were implemented to recover the lost power from the dynamic pipe length / volume change. The manifolds and catalysts have been ceramic coated to reduce under bonnet thermal temperatures to further aid power from cooler air charge, a result of lower temperatures.
The collector cones and ceramic coating were inspired from the development of the BR V12 exhaust system as seen in Yeti’s beast. The idea was that our V8 system would benefit from the same uncompromised design as seen in the V12 part, however the bad – this revision would carry a price increase / penalty. The end result of the study would be to see if the extra ‘bang’ for the extra buck was worth pursuing.
Before the graphs and pics of the booty, the vital stats…..
Standard 4.3L performance is;
410Nm @ 5500 rpm
380BHP @ 7300 rpm
The test car produced;
375Nm @ 5500 rpm
371BHP @ 7300 rpm
The engine was a little down on factory standard figures to the tune of,
-35Nm @ 5500 rpm
-9BHP @ 7300 rpm
This is quite common if the engine has low compression ratio and cam timing set not to optimum. What we were interested in for this particular study was the delta difference between the two exhaust specifications, so we decided to continue. The engine was health checked and no problems were reported, so it’s just a case of this engine being a low one.
With the ceramic coating, F1 inspired collectors and tuned primary pipes we achieved;
430Nm @ 5500 rpm
413BHP @ 7300 rpm
The delta difference being;
+55Nm @ 5500 rpm
+42BHP @ 7300 rpm
Test work we have conducted on V8’s modified to date with the original BR exhaust manifolds and catalysts returns this delta;
+35Nm @ 5500 rpm
+35/40BHP @ 7500 rpm
Meaning that this uncompromised revision returns, above our current kit;
+20Nm @ 5500 rpm
+7BHP @ 7500 rpm
A successful tinker then….! but the million dollar question will be what is the extra buck on top of the spend for the current system (£4200)? – A question which for volume production sets is a question yet to be answered. The extra construction time, materials cost, ceramic coating and fitting time caused by this pinnacle design will ballpark an increase of £1500 on top of the £4200 + the VAT.
So, the BR exhaust system which is +35Nm, 35/40BHP = £4200 +VAT. The pinnacle design £5700 + VAT for an extra 20Nm/7BHP (55NM / 42BHP total delta increase). Normally bang for buck is a ratio of BHP Vs spend, but this revision was made to increase low speed torque and driveability / throttle response – which is the biggest niggle, not ultimate power, that many of you have asked BR to offer a solution to improve.
The original BR exhaust upgrade proves ever popular, we currently fit at least one per week and therefore we keep at least 2 in stock at any one time as race cars consume the upgrade too meaning we have to ship the parts at moments notice. However, since the V12 ‘pinnacle’ exhaust system design commands a high premium meaning take up is less, means we make to order – as will be the case of this V8 ‘pinnacle’ revision.
Well done to Shane and Russell at RS Fabrications for crafting such a well made piece of art
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