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floydbax
71 posts
39 months
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MPG can be anything between 10-12 and 35+ depending on if you are driving miss daisy or making full use of the MIVEC, my annual mileage is pretty low so I tend to live bouncing off the limiter - as previously said here it makes a wonderful sound and goes like a scalded cat - As for fuel mine has always been treated to V-power since it was imported so I could not say how it would make a difference running it on 95 - sorry.
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S10GTA
2,484 posts
36 months
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Goes like a scalded cat? One with 3 legs I take it. They are far from quick cars.
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floydbax
71 posts
39 months
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One of the main reasons people say that the FTO is not quick is that people don't know how to drive them properly, same can be said of the S2000 too. People are not used to revving the balls off cars, the power zone on the FTO is from 5200 to 8500 RPM. Most cars run out of revs at 5000 and people coming from 'normal' revving cars are reluctant to regularly use the available extra revs. Mine has no trouble keeping pace with a standard Audi TT 225 and has done so regularly on foreign jaunts to the Autobhan and nice curly swiss mountains.
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300bhp/ton
Original Poster
26,483 posts
59 months
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Thanks for the info. Not sure I could ever call any car doing 0-60mph in under 7 seconds slow though.
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LordGrover
18,590 posts
81 months
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Perception. Go from a screaming mivec/vtec to a lazy rv8 - the difference is noticeable. 
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Fletcherton
6 posts
11 months
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the chav said: had one never again
full if rust had to have the chassis welded spent £400 on that
I had a auto but Ive heard the manuel is a little quicker but not by much
also pay over the odds on insurance
and did I mention SLOW
and drank far to much fuel for a none turbo car
bought mine for 900 7 months later got wrote off due to sombody driving into the back of it
but they do look very nice and have some great curves
if your going to buy one I suggest you test drive one If you only bought it for £900 I'm hardly surprised it was full of rust. You get what you pay for. A good example will run close to £2000. Anything below the £1k mark will need a lot of work done, especially if its a GPX or equivalent model.
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Fletcherton
6 posts
11 months
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300bhp/ton said: Thanks for the info. Not sure I could ever call any car doing 0-60mph in under 7 seconds slow though. +1, though this a good example of the very polar view people have of the car.
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300bhp/ton
Original Poster
26,483 posts
59 months
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LordGrover said: Perception. Go from a screaming mivec/vtec to a lazy rv8 - the difference is noticeable. I take your point, although I'm not sure I agree. I've jumped in and out of my RV8 powered TR7 into my brothers VCC powered BRM. Both feel equally fast.
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300bhp/ton
Original Poster
26,483 posts
59 months
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Wadeski said: I havent owned one, but from friends who have:
- They are very thirsty for the hp they produce
- Insurance is horrific compared to other rice-rockets - its similar to Evos, Skylines etc
- They do like to rust
Personally, my money would go on a Prelude Motegi or an MR2 Turbo. Any idea on the mpg? And are they really any worse than a DC2? I do like the MR2 turbo and it's a car I'd like to own. Not one for the radar at the mo though. Also I think prices are slightly different. Looking in the classifieds there seems to be quite a choice of £1000-1500 MIVEC FTO's. I can't believe they are all rubbish. But maybe I need to go look at/drive a couple.
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Japveesix
1,875 posts
37 months
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S10GTA said: I had one. Found it terrible. The auto box is archaic. They rust quite badly too. Mines done 130,000+ miles and is only just starting to show minor bits of rust, nothing that's needed any work. The auto is rubbish, but then anyone with sense would read some reviews and wouldn;t have bought an auto anyway  Anyway, I can't give a good comparison to a dc2/172 etc but I'm on my second (manual GPX) which I've had for about 3 years, first I had for about 3 also (manual GR). The GR was a quick enough for my first sporty car, sounded decent (with an aftermarket exhaust) and I thought it looked quite nice. The GPX is very noticably quicker though (it was a newer and better maintained car) and it sounds considerably better once you get in the higher revs. No idea how fast it compared to a modern hatch like a 172. Supposedly under 7 seconds to 60, feels about right to me but I've not got much to compare it with. Certainly always seemd to keep up with a friends 3.0 GTV fairly well. I've always felt it handles quite well, can be a tad understeery but the steering feel and responsiveness is decent. I'm yet to hear any modern equivalent 4 or 5 cylinder hatch that I think sounds better and obviously the FTO has the added bonus of rarity and (imo) very sleek coupe looks. I still prefer the looks to most of its contemporaries (do like a GTV with aero kit and well modified fiat coupe) and certainly think the facelift car has aged very well. I like that people don't know what it is, even those who like their cars often struggle whereas a celica or rx-8 would be far more widely recognised. I find it surprisingly practical - I regularly carry a mountain bike in it, have had 3 passengers and can fit chainsaws, strimmers and various other tools in with little fuss. Bascially the looks divide people (many on here seem to hate them ), most, including me, wish they were a bit quicker (but it's plenty quick enough) but I love them. Still think the exterior looks nice, still love the noise, interior is fine, does need revving to get it going but then like a Vtec honda that's half the fun I really think I'd struggle to find anything half as interesting for what mine is worth (sod all).  In some classy company   Ps. This chap seemed to like his, and he seems to have very good taste http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
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Japveesix
1,875 posts
37 months
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300bhp/ton said: Any idea on the mpg? And are they really any worse than a DC2? I get about 26mpg average from a manual gpx. Can hit 30mpg from a tank if I drive like a granny on the motorway for hundreds of miles at 60. Likewise it'll drop to low 20's very easily if all you ever do is roar about in mivec (very fun all the same). Insurance is an utter b  h. Have reduced mine to under £700 this year (30, decent area, 2yrs NCD) but have paid a lot more in previous years - for what it's worth Admiral won this year easily. In comparison a 172, celica etc will almost certainly be a lot cheaper to insure, as well as possibly tax/petrol. Doesn't need super though did seem to benefit when run on it (did run it exclusively on super for a while when I was feeling wealthier  ). They run just fine on 95 ron though. I think they drive well. I'd suggest the majority of serious detractors have never driven one, though obviously some in this thread have. Those who have probably bought nasty examples (of which there are many). A clean, well maintained and undersealed car shouldn't give you any more problems than any other 15 year old sporty car. There are obviously some really good alternatives around but the FTO just won for me, no idea why. I'd probably be just as happy with a GTV or a fiat coupe. They are rare though and if you get one you get to wave/flash at other FTO drivers - seems to get better responses than most other cars do Take one for a drive, you might like it. Ps. had all my belts done a couple of weeks ago. Cost around £500 all in but from a very friendly local mechanic. He said it was interesting and he hopes he never has to do an FTO cambelt again, absolute pig of a job
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swansea v6
1,072 posts
94 months
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I've had 2, one manual and one auto. Only sold last one as swmbo told me it was too small for our one year old if you get one make sure it is A manual, autos really aren't sporty and drink petrol! ESP the four speed. They aren't the quickest cars in the world but they are no way slow! And the sound, especially with filter and exhaust is awesome!
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MagicShroom
9 posts
18 months
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iv had 3 FTO's among other cars such as type R hondas and vvt 190 celicas and i can say to all who say the fto is slow - you will not find a quicker car for the money they are going for nowadays .
My version R manual is quicker than the celica i had and feels more firmly planted through twisty roads - more importantly for me is the FTO just feels nicer to drive and if you get a decent induction kit on the FTO it sounds miles better
comparing it to my integra type r however it just didnt measure up to the honda , although it does look much prettier and is nicer inside it just cant match the speed or cornering ability of the type r
so if you have the cash by a honda , if not the FTO will not dissapoint
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TAS1981
344 posts
74 months
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Tried a GPX once, felt underwhelmed, tried a V1 STi some time later and thought this is what the GPX looks like it should go like... but doesn't! Bought a scoob, never looked back. Unless you really like the look can it, get something else.
Highly one sided I know but it was my thoughts at the time.
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S10GTA
2,484 posts
36 months
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Fletcherton
6 posts
11 months
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S10GTA said: It's like you went out of your way to find the one best suited your argument . The FTO you linked is crazy at that money, £4k for a near 100k automatic is mental, even if it is a GPvR. What you paid for your almost a decade ago is irrelevant. The most you should be paying for an FTO now is £2k, and that should be a very top of the line example - talking a facelift manual GP/X with miniscule mileage and receipts from the day it was imported. For a GPvR expect to go a bit higher. When I picked my GPX up a few years ago it was a little over £1.6k with just over 60k on the clock, some of which is in KM's. You'll be hard pressed to beat that bang-for-buck. The only caveat to that is you need to spend time shopping around, because there are a lot of jokers trying to flog theirs for far more than its worth - for example a 100k auto for £4k  .
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S10GTA
2,484 posts
36 months
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That is a fair point. I went on eBay and searched. It was the first facelift one I came across, which is why I used it. I didn't know what their value was/is
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300bhp/ton
Original Poster
26,483 posts
59 months
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S10GTA said: That is a fair point. I went on eBay and searched. It was the first facelift one I came across, which is why I used it. I didn't know what their value was/is On the PH classifieds when I've looked MIVEC FTO's seem to range from £800-£2000 with most being £1100-1500 range. There was one heavily customised one at £2900 when I looked last, but I wouldn't pay that for it personally.
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300bhp/ton
Original Poster
26,483 posts
59 months
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MagicShroom said: so if you have the cash by a honda , if not the FTO will not dissapoint Thanks. That was kind of my hope and thinking. I love DC2's and would very much like one, but they are a tad more money than I've budgeted. So was thinking an FTO might make a good compromise.
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Murray1986
36 posts
77 months
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Brakes are weak on the GR / GX's but twin pot front calipers from the GPX are a direct swap and as said GTO items can be fitted. I find the GPX twin pots pretty decent on the road, not sure how well they hold up on track. Suspension isn't to hard for UK roads, I run std shocks with eibach springs which are stiffer than standard and the ride soaks up bumps well. Id rate it above my mk1 MX5 with koni sports kit all round. Steering feel compared to the MX5 is not great, leagues apart, same with the gear change and the car does feel heavier and more wollowy compared but its not that bad, expected as it is a bigger and heavier car -- it does handle and stick to the road very well though. Usually see people slating them for being heavy as they look it but they are actually quite light for their size at around 1170kg for a prefaclift GPX (around 1200 across the range give or take a few 10kg's) so p/w ratio is actully not that bad if its still got all of its 197 horses after all these years which alot don't. The engine as far as i know is like most V6's of the time and made of aluminium (not sure if its just the heads or not) so not really that heavy compared to cast iron turbo or petrol diesels. Similar to the Mazda K series V6's which seem to be made out to be mega heavy when they aren't that bad. The sound with decat / mongoose catback and an itg or HKS filter is fantastic, especially when the MIVEC kicks in, really gives the engine a nice character, mega mega loud though so does sound alot faster than it is and you get the classic burbly V6 rumble at low revs under load. Engine also loves to rev although the gearing feels quite long so I think this is why it doesnt feel very powerful, its very smooth and linear and as already said it needs to be revved very veryyyyyyyyy hard for it to go anywhere fast. Especialy compared with almost anything moderately fast coming with masses of turbo torque at low rpms nowadays. I'd say they are fairly quick for the class of car they were designed to slot into. A good MIVEC manual is around 16-17 0-100mph so about the same as focus ST's (standard, similar power to weight) etc and 1/4 mile can see mid to high 14's so again similar / slightly slower compared to your ITR's focus ST etc etc. It just requires a different driving style so its easy to see how they could be caught out on motorways or any modern hot hatch with a few mods such as remap etc. The other reason I think they are known for being ultra slow is the looks as said placing it into supra / gto / rx7 / 300zx / skyline class of cars in peoples minds when it is most definitely not! And the biggest reason I think they are generalised as slow is that all trim levels and specs look pretty much identical, so when someone comes across a 1.8GS with 125hp or a tip / auto they think all FTO's must be like that. There are a few of some japanese racing vids on youtube of them compared to INT SI, 180sx, MR2, m3 plus others and it does fair pretty well compared to them. Edit - here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTiXnCFT9cYHeres some very rough times I've seen banded about on some of the owners clubs of tsukuba time attack: (I don't know just how accurate it is or not take it with a heavy pinch of salt) fto gpx 1.10.80 fto version r 1.10.50 integra type r 1.10.20 rx8 1.13.80 tt 3.2v6 1.13.80 r32 golf 1.13.80 s2000 1.09.80 civic type r 1.11.90 astra vxr 1.12.90 megane 1.12.60 m3 1.09.40 Rust is common on the suspension turrets, especially under the main fusebox and roof rust on pre faclift cars mainly darker colours such as black. Climate control units can also fail but a 2nd hand one can be had for as little as £5 and fitting is a 10 minute job. Driver seat bolster material also wears easily. Headlights can have sun damage where it looks like they are peeling but some cutting compound + wet and dry sorts this. Rocker covers leaking. Drop links and steering rack gaitors needing replaced usually pop up on the forums quite a bit. Need a decent alignment or they eat tyres. Sticky rear calipers. Just wish I'd bought one years ago as they are getting on a bit now and getting rough around the edges...
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